If I decide to open carry?

[stainless1911]

I disagree that a bike is a vehicle too. I think its a bunch of crap! However, for a non CPL holder, its just not worth it. All a cop has to do is think that since you can get a DUI, you can get a CCW, ang write the ticket. Then its off to court, with a lawyer and the bills that come with it. Not a good situation, even if you win.

 

[DrTodd]

Dr Todd I know that I'm new here and if I had links to I would provide them; please read my post where I said that I was repeating what I was told by a LEO during the CPL class it is my understanding that is what they are there for to explain law related questions to which I only asked if CC was legal in such places.

By posting the links (see stainless1911's post), you will learn more about firearm law than you ever thought possible... which will increase your confidence when dealing with LEOs... which will show you, an OCer, to be a responsible member of the community who acts within the law.
Also, when citation is not given, it may lead you or someone else to believe something that is not true... which could have the effect of you or others being charged with multiple felonies.
BTW, never, ever ask a "cop" what the law is... their job is not to help you, their job is to assist DA's in the prosecution of violations of the law. The days of Mayberry are over.
With the advent of the internet, empower yourself by looking the law up yourself and, when you don't understand something AFTER your research, or you can't find it after a diligent search, feel free to ask an attorney or ask for our help.

 

[teecro]

I disagree that a bike is a vehicle too. I think its a bunch of crap! However, for a non CPL holder, its just not worth it. All a cop has to do is think that since you can get a DUI, you can get a CCW, ang write the ticket. Then its off to court, with a lawyer and the bills that come with it. Not a good situation, even if you win.

See that's where my train of thought was before I checked into any of the details.... I just assumed that if I was open carry before I sat on the bike that I was still open carry after I sat on the bike.... I about $hit my pants with I was told otherwise; I even asked if it made difference if unloaded and I was still told no dice. I was just lucky that I was not stopped before I learned the error of my ways.

 

[T Mack]

If carrying concealed,(this includes OC in or on any vehicle,) including bicycles), you must disclose.

Of course! thx stainless, whenever I come in contact with a LEO I let him know I'm carrying. I was talking about OC in case he would have seen that already!!! Thx for clarifying tho.

 

[T Mack]

So let me get this straight. I have a CPL so I can OC in a bar that gets most of it's money from liquor sales?

 

[stainless1911]

See that's where my train of thought was before I checked into any of the details.... I just assumed that if I was open carry before I sat on the bike that I was still open carry after I sat on the bike.... I about $hit my pants with I was told otherwise; I even asked if it made difference if unloaded and I was still told no dice. I was just lucky that I was not stopped before I learned the error of my ways.

Me too. :uhoh: Someone here set me straight.

So let me get this straight. I have a CPL so I can OC in a bar that gets most of it's money from liquor sales?

Yep.

 

[teecro]

Me too. :uhoh: Someone here set me straight.

Thanks for your insite here. I am but a damp sponge here; only looking to soak up what I can learn to be better able to pass on the word as best I can.

 

[Bronson]

Thanks for your insite here. I am but a damp sponge here; only looking to soak up what I can learn to be better able to pass on the word as best I can.

After a while you will build a large collection of bookmarked websites related to firearm law.

I am still amazed at the amount of information that is given in CPL classes that is different from what the law actually states. It seems that CPL classes are a place for the instructor to impart his particular views and opinions on carrying a firearm instead of a place where people go to learn factual information about the legalities of carrying a concealed pistol.

Bronson

 

[Bronson]

So let me get this straight. I have a CPL so I can OC in a bar that gets most of it's money from liquor sales?

Yes. You will be within the law, but you must always remember that private property rights rule. While it may be legal for you to OC w/CPL into a bar the bar's owner or agent may ask you to leave and if you do not leave then you may be facing a trespassing charge.

750.552

(1) A person shall not do any of the following:

(a) Enter the lands or premises of another without lawful authority after having been forbidden so to do by the owner or occupant or the agent of the owner or occupant.

(b) Remain without lawful authority on the land or premises of another after being notified to depart by the owner or occupant or the agent of the owner or occupant.

Here's another neat little twist of the law. It is possible for a person without a CPL to OC in a bar. They just need to have permission from the owner or owner's agent (I'd get it in writing)*, but there is no provision in MI law that allows the owner of private property the ability to give permission for non-CPL holders to conceal a pistol**.

*750.234d

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

(a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

(b) A peace officer.

(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

(d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.

**750.227

(2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.

See, there's a good start to your bookmark collection

Bronson

 

[Bronson]

I think the most difficult thing for folks newly interested in OC, especially those who have gone through CPL training, to wrap their brains around is that MI has two distinct lists of pistol free zones.

The first one, MCL 750.234d, is really a "Firearms Free Zones" list as it pertains to the general possession of all firearms. The really important part of that law for us is the section that lists the exemptions to the law. The salient exemption being the possession of a CPL. So if you are carrying in most of the Firearm Free Zones listed in 750.234d but you have a CPL you are exempt. There are exceptions like courtrooms that need to be learned.

The second list, MCL 28.425o, is a true "Pistol Free Zones" list since it is only concerned with regulating the carrying of a concealed pistol. So if you're carrying a pistol but it is not concealed then this law does not come into play.

The challenge is to learn both laws well enough to know which one you are operating under at any specific point in time and the potential pitfalls associated with each situation.

Then we get into all the other laws like school property, trespassing, possessing in a vehicle, legal transport in a vehicle without a CPL, etc. but that's for another time

Bronson

 

[quarter horseman]

State Parks are good to go OC or CC buildings are fine too.

Thanks! Auto

 

[Venator]

I have been CC in applebees grocery stores all kinds of restaurant bars and thought I was legal? That is not the case?
Just read that in one of the stickies?:banghead:

Legal if you have a CPL, NOT legal if you don't.

 

[Bikenut]

I'm glad to see folks new to OC asking questions.... I'd rather see a bunch of questions (yeah, even what some might think are stupid questions) than to hear about someone becoming acquainted with that guy "Ben Dover" in prison just because they didn't understand the law.

Let me add to the sound advice of DrTodd when he said to not ask a cop what the law is.....

Please... no matter who said what in the area of gun laws .. all gun laws...

Look it up in the actual law yourself. Read it carefully. Reread it until complete understanding sinks in. Then ask other people (this forum is full of very knowledgeable folks) questions... then take what they said and look that up too!

It comes down to "trust but verify".... because ultimately the butt that is on the legal line is.................. yours. And the penalties are too severe to get it wrong due to a misunderstanding of the law.

Please don't let all that dissuade you from OC'ing. Actually knowing and understanding the law makes OC even more enjoyable because you will be comfortable knowing you are not breaking the law. And you will also be able to inform/educate the folks who ask you questions... and be comfortable knowing you are telling them the actual law.

 

[eastmeyers]

I'm glad to see folks new to OC asking questions.... I'd rather see a bunch of questions (yeah, even what some might think are stupid questions) than to hear about someone becoming acquainted with that guy "Ben Dover" in prison just because they didn't understand the law.

Let me add to the sound advice of DrTodd when he said to not ask a cop what the law is.....

Please... no matter who said what in the area of gun laws .. all gun laws...

Look it up in the actual law yourself. Read it carefully. Reread it until complete understanding sinks in. Then ask other people (this forum is full of very knowledgeable folks) questions... then take what they said and look that up too!

It comes down to "trust but verify".... because ultimately the butt that is on the legal line is.................. yours. And the penalties are too severe to get it wrong due to a misunderstanding of the law.

Please don't let all that dissuade you from OC'ing. Actually knowing and understanding the law makes OC even more enjoyable because you will be comfortable knowing you are not breaking the law. And you will also be able to inform/educate the folks who ask you questions... and be comfortable knowing you are telling them the actual law.

Where is the "like" button? :banana:

 

[NHCGRPR45]

I am always willing to go out and about with a new OC'er. I am free any Wednesday, and sundays after 5pm. And I agree Safe is almost always better than sorry!

 

[T Mack]

I am always willing to go out and about with a new OC'er. I am free any Wednesday, and sundays after 5pm. And I agree Safe is almost always better than sorry!

I'm off next Wednesday after memorial weekend maybe we can get out and about?
I'm right off 96 & 275 area

 

[NHCGRPR45]

Sounds good to me. Pm me so we can get things set up!

 

[stainless1911]

ooh, first date.

 

[Big Gay Al]

ooh, first date.

I'm not gonna say a word.

 

[NHCGRPR45]

ooh, first date.

Take it easy!:uhoh:

I'm not gonna say a word.

And its not a date! I don't even know if its a him, her, or it!