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Felons With CHP's

Sc0tt

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2010
Messages
315
Location
Asheboro, NC
More than 2,400 permit holders were convicted of felonies or misdemeanors, excluding traffic-related crimes, over the five-year period, The Times found when it compared databases of recent criminal court cases and licensees. While the figure represents a small percentage of those with permits, more than 200 were convicted of felonies, including at least 10 who committed murder or manslaughter. All but two of the killers used a gun. [...]

Interesting article on Think Progress

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/20...rs-with-felony-convictions-keep-their-permit/

Thoughts?
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,449
Location
Valhalla
Of those 2,400 (regardless of their crime), how many have since had their CHP revoked or suspended?

And of those who have had their permits revoked/suspended, how many have since been convicted of carrying on a revoked/suspended permit?

Can you guess where this is going? Take your time and think carefully before you answer.

No, I'm not even going to get into the question of how many if the 2,400 CHPs were issued to folks who were categorically ineligible at the time they applied.

But I will ask how the percentage of folks convicted of carrying with a revoked/suspended CHP compares with the number of folks convicted of driving with a revoked/suspended driver's license. Or even just the number of folks who have been convicted of killing someone when driving on a revoked/suspended driver's license.

Maybe if the NYT got their panties unwadded long enough to think about -- Oops! I see where I'm making my mistake. Sorry. Never mind.

stay safe.
 

Badger Johnson

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
1,217
Location
USA
It happens, it's rare. Put into context against LEOs with problems and 'accidents' it's a small number, IIRC. But nice link/food for thought.

Also, put up against the good shoot/proper use of a firearm to save an innocent it's also a tiny fraction. I don't have cites, because we've all seen those numbers...

$.02
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,331
Location
Valhalla
How many permit holders are there in North Carolina? According to the story, "more than 240,000." So 0.2 percent of them are convicted of a non-traffic-related offense each year, about 0.017 percent are convicted of a felony, and only 0.005 percent are convicted of a gun assault.

By comparison, about 0.35 percent of all Americans are convicted of a felony each year--more than 20 times the rate among North Carolina permit holders. It seems clear these people are far more law-abiding than the general population, a finding consistent with data from other states.

http://reason.com/blog/2011/12/27/scare-story-about-carry-permit-holders-s
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,331
Location
Valhalla
How many permit holders are there in North Carolina? According to the story, "more than 240,000." So 0.2 percent of them are convicted of a non-traffic-related offense each year, about 0.017 percent are convicted of a felony, and only 0.005 percent are convicted of a gun assault.

By comparison, about 0.35 percent of all Americans are convicted of a felony each year--more than 20 times the rate among North Carolina permit holders. It seems clear these people are far more law-abiding than the general population, a finding consistent with data from other states.

http://reason.com/blog/2011/12/27/scare-story-about-carry-permit-holders-s

They should be issued good citizen awards - they are being responsible.
 

ncwabbit

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2011
Messages
670
Location
rural religious usa
one, two, three,....4 million, 4 million and fourteen...darn lost count...one, two..

"Figures often beguile me," Mark Twain wrote, "particularly when I have the arranging of them myself; in which case the remark attributed to Disraeli would often apply with justice and force: 'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.'"

Mark Twain's "Chapters from My Autobiography", published in the North American Review in 1906.

wabbit
 
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rotorhead

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2010
Messages
862
Location
FL
The whole NYT article is a junk hit piece akin to scooping up a pile of dog crap and tossing it into the wind with he intention of letting it land on as many people as it can.

It's an amalgamation of twisted numbers rearranged to fit the headline, which is very deceptive on top of it all. The numbers game used is nothing more than a mere 3rd grade magic trick. Here, I can do it too:

1. Of the over 500,000 fatal automobile accidents in the US, over 4/5ths of the drivers were holding the wheel with their left hand. Conclusion: Left handed drivers hate cars and therefore crash them, causing death in many cases.

2. Of 100 people surveyed, 97 of them pick their ass with their right hand. Conclusion: 97% of right handed people pick their ass.

3. Blueberries picked very early in the season are green. Of the total number of blueberries picked early, 98% were green. Conclusion: blueberries are green.

4. I smoked a cigarette today and didn't die. Conclusion: cigarettes do not contribute to deaths.

It goes on and on.

This article is nothing but a mob hit designed to whip up a frenzy in the forefront of the current legislation moving through the US Congress that deals with nation-wide reciprocity. The implication is that if the legislation is passed, your state will have to not only deal with these criminals from NC coming to visit (which will surely happen), but your own state will have many just like them already lurking about in your midst.

Junk journalism isn't new, but at least people used to kinda sorta hide it...somewhat. This guy threw all sense of personal integrity into the void and went full-out stupid with this piece.
 
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old curmudgeon

Regular Member
Joined
May 7, 2011
Messages
22
Location
NC

The entire story is based on BS.

First, what is felony?

A felony can be many things, from passing bad checks interstate, or insider trading or.......you name it.

There are hundreds of non violent felonies and it makes no sense to take a person's CCW for a non violent crime, possibly even for something that the person convicted had no idea was a crime.

So if the writer had any ethics or credibility, he would have sorted the felonies into violent and non violent.

I suspect doing so would have reduced the number from 2,400 to maybe four or five hundred violent felonies.

That is just the beginning. There were many many other errors and stretches of truthfulness in the story.

Not worth any further attention.
 

Doble Troble

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Messages
58
Location
Greenville
It was 2400 felonies AND misdemeanors...

Just providing the number of felonies would have made it a non-story, which it should have been, but this is the type of dishonest "opinion-driven" opposition we're up against.

You decide your position and then start working on twisting everything you can to support it. This is why the media and politicians get along so well - they understand each other.
 

Sig229

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2006
Messages
926
Location
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA
The entire story is based on BS.

First, what is felony?

A felony can be many things, from passing bad checks interstate, or insider trading or.......you name it.

There are hundreds of non violent felonies and it makes no sense to take a person's CCW for a non violent crime, possibly even for something that the person convicted had no idea was a crime..

Well said!
Not long ago in this country, a felony crime was reserved for only the most serious offenses.
Today, in some states the smallest infraction can be turned into a felony.
 

Dreamer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
5,362
Location
Grennsboro NC
The entire story is based on BS.

First, what is felony?

A felony can be many things, from passing bad checks interstate, or insider trading or.......you name it.


For instance, in Maryland, bringing more than 2 packs (that's PACKS, not cartons) of cigarettes into the state without MD tax stamps on them is a FELONY.

But carrying a handgun concealed without a permit is a misdemeanor...

The "felonization" of everyday activities is a disturbing trend in jurisprudence and legislation in the US, and needs to be SERIOUSLY examined, questioned, and to be honest, stopped and reversed. If you really know the law, it is nearly impossible to get out of bed without breaking SOME law, even for the most law-abiding person in the US these days...
 

Sig229

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2006
Messages
926
Location
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA
For instance, in Maryland, bringing more than 2 packs (that's PACKS, not cartons) of cigarettes into the state without MD tax stamps on them is a FELONY.
\.

WTF!?

Let me understand this correctly.
If you enter MD with two or more packs of cigarettes without a MD tax stamp but a tax stamp from a different state is illegal?

Or is it just having a pack of smokes with no tax stamp at all?
 

bc.cruiser

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
785
Location
Fayetteville NC
WTF!?

Let me understand this correctly.
If you enter MD with two or more packs of cigarettes without a MD tax stamp but a tax stamp from a different state is illegal?

Or is it just having a pack of smokes with no tax stamp at all?

http://compnet.comp.state.md.us/mot...ohol_and_tobacco_tax/tobacco_tax_information/

To save time: MD residents can import 2 packs of non-MD taxed cigarettes; travelers passing through can carry 1 carton. The misdemeanor charge carries a per carton penalty of $50 fine and 1 yr in jail.
 

Dreamer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
5,362
Location
Grennsboro NC
The whole NYT article is a junk hit piece akin to scooping up a pile of dog crap and tossing it into the wind with he intention of letting it land on as many people as it can.

It's an amalgamation of twisted numbers rearranged to fit the headline, which is very deceptive on top of it all. The numbers game used is nothing more than a mere 3rd grade magic trick. Here, I can do it too:

1. Of the over 500,000 fatal automobile accidents in the US, over 4/5ths of the drivers were holding the wheel with their left hand. Conclusion: Left handed drivers hate cars and therefore crash them, causing death in many cases.


And to bring it back to the original aricle, how many of those 2400 people had drivers licenses? How many of them were "Christian"? How many of them ate regularly at McDonalds? How many of them were on prescription psychotropics? How many of them attended public school? How many of them had read "Catcher in the Rye"?

Correlation does not prove causation.

Not only is this article bad journalism, it is fundamentally based on faulty logic. The editors of the NYT should be ashamed.

And they should be PUBLICLY outed as the idiotic, anti-intellectual buffoons that they are, for assuming that the American public is so stupid that we will fall for their tricks...
 
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Sc0tt

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2010
Messages
315
Location
Asheboro, NC
The story says Felony's and misdemeanor , There are very few misdemeanor that disqualify a person from carrying a firearm. So in reality its less than 0.2%.

I still see CHP process as a giant infrigment on the 2A, I will never understand why I need to take a class, pay hundreds of dollars, get finger printed, pass another BG check and ask the sheriff "mother may I?" to carry a gun with a jacket over it while I can carry it right out in the open.
 

rotorhead

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2010
Messages
862
Location
FL
And to bring it back to the original aricle, how many of those 2400 people had drivers licenses? How many of them were "Christian"? How many of them ate regularly at McDonalds? How many of them were on prescription psychotropics? How many of them attended public school? How many of them had read "Catcher in the Rye"?

Correlation does not prove causation.

Not only is this article bad journalism, it is fundamentally based on faulty logic. The editors of the NYT should be ashamed.

And they should be PUBLICLY outed as the idiotic, anti-intellectual buffoons that they are, for assuming that the American public is so stupid that we will fall for their tricks...

The problem with all of that is that a significant portion of the American public is that stupid...:uhoh:

It's one reason that explains just how people like the author of the NYT article is able to continue to remain employed in the media. Sadly, many still live under the theory that, if it's in the news, it must be true.
 
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