Chesapeake.....will not give permit untill the 45th day?

[1stAmendmentAtty]

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AJG wrote:

In your opinion it might be a small step from MAY ISSUE, but the fact of the matter is we are a "Shall Issue" state and we are a Open Carry State as well. The fact of the matter is, any applicants will get their permits as long as they are eligible and until you are issued your CHP, you have the right to open carry. There are no rights being withheld, there is no abuse of power by the judicial system because they take the entire 45 days. There Is something wrong with a City Clerk for not issuing a "Certified Copy" of a persons application that hasnt been approved after the 45days though.... that I agree with.

My point is that for a judge to withhold approval of CHP applicaitons past 45 dayson a consistent basis may be an abuse of authority. Virginians are fortunate to have the de facto permit portion of the Virginia code to compensate for the discretion that judges can exercise. But if the Commonwealth slips futher into the blue at the conclusion of future elections, we may very well see a renewed assault on the Second Amendment, including restrictions on the right to carry, open or concealed.

Just as the judges have the right to hold piles of CHP applications on their desks right up until day 45, applicants have the right to complain about it. The least we can do as fellow supporters of the Second Amendment is to give them a passable Slick Willie impression and tell them, "I feel your pain!"

 

[AJG]

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I agree.... we all have points and have the right to express them!And its great to be able to have interaction!

 

[DocDaddy]

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+1 on VB being quick!A couple years back, I droppedmy application off on March 3rd, it was issued March 5th and I received it in the mail on march 8th!!!!I know that is not the norm thou (just had to brag hehehe!)!

 

[TFred]

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IANAL, but in my humble opinion, a judge that holds the permit the full 45 days for no reason actually related to the process is not acting within the spirit of the law. In my non-legal opinion, the law allows a 45 day window in which to complete the activities required to issue the permit, not to define a mandatory waiting time before you may be granted a permit.

Although they are not breaking the law, it certainly would appear that they are throwing a judicial tantrum and inhibiting the process as far as they can without getting their hand slapped.

These are not the kind of judges we need.

TFred

 

[GLENGLOCKER]

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AJG wrote:

1stAmendmentAtty wrote:

To those who say "be content as long as you get the permit," I would simply remind you that it is a small step from "Shall-Issue" to "May-Issue," and another small step from "May-Issue" to "Right-Denied." When judges show contempt for the law, the only real means for holding them accountable is through a bar-ethics investigation. And good luck getting a bar-panel made up of wannabe judges to agree that a judge has abused his/her authority without clear and convincing evidence.

In your opinion it might be a small step from MAY ISSUE, but the fact of the matter is we are a "Shall Issue" state and we are a Open Carry State as well. The fact of the matter is, any applicants will get their permits as long as they are eligible and until you are issued your CHP, you have the right to open carry. There are no rights being withheld, there is no abuse of power by the judicial system because they take the entire 45 days. There Is something wrong with a City Clerk for not issuing a "Certified Copy" of a persons application that hasnt been approved after the 45days though.... that I agree with.

Its really a bit irritating to read posts about people calling up to find out about their applications prior to the 45 days authorized by law to hav eit issued.... Why havent I got it???? When will it get here???? :banghead: For christ sakes.... open carry until it gets here...

Wow!!! You need to realize that they (the Government) works for us, and not the other way around. A bit irritating that people dare question the agents of the government of why my paperwork to exercise my GOD given rights isn't here yet!!! I would like to see if you and Bill in VA had the same attitude if a judge handed down a very light sentenence to someone that did harm to you or your family. Also some people may not want to OC. Did you ever think of that???????

 

[zoom6zoom]

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builtjeep wrote:

Petersburg clerk Benjamin Scott will not issue temporary permit, search my username for my thread on their dealings.

Then he needs to get a legal smackdown... he's required by law to issue it.

 

[Bill in VA]

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[tripledipper]

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The "Taj Mahal"in beautiful downtownChesapeake isabout 25 years behind the rest of the other Southside cities in all aspects of government business. The CHP classinstructor at Bob's warned us that if the law says 45 days Chesapeake will take 45 days. I got mine in 42 lastJune and that was before the madrush. The"locals" say somthing like " if you go to Chesapeake for a vacation you mightwind up getting arrested instead ". This was a backwards place 15 years ago and not much has changed. I try to make all mylarge purchases in the Beach and spend as little as possiblehere.

 

[GLENGLOCKER]

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Bill in VA wrote:

GLENGLOCKER wrote:

Wow!!! You need to realize that they (the Government) works for us, and not the other way around. A bit irritating that people dare question the agents of the government of why my paperwork to exercise my GOD given rights isn't here yet!!! I would like to see if you and Bill in VA had the same attitude if a judge handed down a very light sentenence to someone that did harm to you or your family. Also some people may not want to OC. Did you ever think of that???????

Don't insult my intelligence, Glen, I'm very well aware that the government works for the people, not vice versa. What you seem to be unable to grasp, though, is that they're acting 100% within the color of the law. Their actions are no different than your actions when you go out in public openly carrying your pistol. I.e., not everybody likes it, a fair number of people think it's ostentatious and flauting the law, and a few even think it ought to be against the lawbut it's perfectly legal. I've made the same statement three times, and doubt it'll do any good to repeat it a fourth time. Either you accept it or you don't. I've got to to wonder though, why you're getting so worked up over it in the first place. I'd think that if your buddy was equally as upset he'd be here doing the whining instead you. Regardless, I'm done with this thread; It's run its course, and even if you're not tired of beating a dead horse, I am.

EOM

What I don't grasp is someone sticking up for them taking 45 days just because they can. If Eric Holder gets another AWB passed to protect Mexico will you agree with it also??

 

[scuba_steve]

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They definitely have the right to take the full 45 days. No argument. That said, I share the opinion that by taking the full length of time intentionally (i.e., sitting on it), they seem to be expressing some measure of dislike/contempt of your right to get the permit. Yes, that's my inference, not a fact, but it seems fairly clear to me.


Is that their right? Sure is. They can do whatever they want as long as they process the paperwork in 45 days. They can take my application to the bathroom with them each of those days. Whatever.

Could they get in done sooner? Sure could. In fact, I would bet that the 45 day timeline was selected with some buffer in mind...so I imagine that they could get it done significantly sooner in many cases. Can we make them get it done sooner? Not a chance. Can we complain? Well, in this country, we should be able to...just as others should be able to tell us to get over it.


Frankly, I think that sitting on it sucks...and reflects a bad attitude. If I had an employee intentionally sitting on something that a customer requested until the last possible minute for no good reason, they would be gone...even if they were meeting that deadline. Where I work, we don't intentionally wait until the last possible minute on anything. We strive for customer satisfaction...and we also try to get things done as early as we can (based on priorities) so we will be safe should we run into an unplanned event later on. We also really like happy customers since they pay our mortgages. Unfortunately, these judges don't work for me. Well, at least they don't think that they do.


My advice? Rather than complain, surf over to the New York forum...and read what someone there must go through just to get a "target permit." You'll thank the Lord that you live in VA...and 45 days will seem like a blink of the eye.

 

[DonTreadOnMe]

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Bill in VA wrote:

DonTreadOnMe wrote:

Oh, I think it is quite 'within the law'. The problem is, it was made clear to him they would not give him his permit before they are required by law.

IMHO, it is very clearly an expression of contempt against permit applicants by Chesapeake.

If they needed 45 days, that would be one thing....we are not talking about that. They simply don't want to issue the permit, period.

It's bovine excrement in my opinion, legal or not.

Again, let's play the devil's advocate and look at this objectively for a moment. You're stating that their choice to wait until the last lawful minute to issue a permit or denial is a "problem" because they don't need 45 days. What do "needs" have to do with it? Since when do I need to carry a sidearm, or even need to own a firearm? We all know the answer is that "needs" have nothing to do with it. I have a right to own and carry a firearm. Now that the shoe is on the other foot and we're talking about the city'srights/lawful authority, as opposed to our rights/lawful authority, how is that any more of a "problem" than the open-carry of a sidearm? Certainly plenty of folks see open-carry as a "problem" as evidenced by the very existence of this entire web site. All I'm saying is let's not be so quick to rail about someone else's rights simply because we don't agree with the way they choose to exercise them; let's take the high road for a change.

My .02

Let me clarify my complaint... If Chesapeake simply was bad at the process and took 45 days for them to process a CHP fine.

Let me break down to you another way. say you have an employee and you tell him he has two days to finish a specific task to meet your guidelines for his job. ...and like clock work he turns in his task one very two days. Your all happy right? Only you start to wonder, why does he never get one done early or turn in one late. Wile others that work for you are done sooner and some run over. Hmmm... so you monitor his work and notice he is great at his job and it only takes him two hours to do the job. On rather than going on to the next task, he waits for the two day guild line to expire and then turns it in. He meets the requirment, but will make no effort at all to give one inch of effort past it! Would you give him a raise? Would you look to replace him with a better more eager employee? I would fire his butt on the spot. It is not his job to drag his feet. ...and he dang sure would not be good example for others at the job.

The 45 days is the requirement they 'have' to meet. They do not have a 'right' to be lazy, they dont have a 'right' to thumb there nose at us, or do everything they can to keep us from exersizing our rights. If processing a permit takes 5 days, it should be completed in 5 days...period.

We should demand nothing less of our goverment than any boss would expect of an emplyee. ...I demand more.

They might be legal...but they are still desierving of contempt, anger and a pink slip!

 

[DonTreadOnMe]

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scuba_steve wrote:

Unfortunately, these judges don't work for me. Well, at least they don't think that they do.


My advice? Rather than complain, surf over to the New York forum...and read what someone there must go through just to get a "target permit." You'll thank the Lord that you live in VA...and 45 days will seem like a blink of the eye.

Sorry, but they do work for us. ...and just because New York stinks does not make me feel better. Any more that I would not dismiss malpractice from my doctor because he is still better than the standard of care in new guinea.

I demand and expect more, and I would encourage you to do the same.

 

[Toad]

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Armed wrote:

Toad wrote:

Louisa County is waiting until the very last day as well before calling to say it is ready to be picked up. To add insult to injury they calling right at the end of the business day.

I have to disagree with that. My nephew renewed his permit in Louisa county, and he had his permit in hand in about 2.5 weeks.

Sounds like a rare case there!!! The only people I know of that received theirs that fast around here either have connections in the court or the local government.

 

[AJG]

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GLENGLOCKER wrote:

Wow!!! You need to realize that they (the Government) works for us, and not the other way around. A bit irritating that people dare question the agents of the government of why my paperwork to exercise my GOD given rights isn't here yet!!! I would like to see if you and Bill in VA had the same attitude if a judge handed down a very light sentenence to someone that did harm to you or your family. Also some people may not want to OC. Did you ever think of that???????

Wow.... sorry I cant resist, last comment and I also, like Bill, am done with this thread. Glen its not a "GOD GIVEN RIGHT"! Next time a Chesapeake election happens, just make sure that you vote in CHP quick to approve representatives and all the madness ends.

 

[TFred]

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AJG wrote:

Wow.... sorry I cant resist, last comment and I also, like Bill, am done with this thread. Glen its not a "GOD GIVEN RIGHT"! Next time a Chesapeake election happens, just make sure that you vote in CHP quick to approve representatives and all the madness ends.

Your wording and the context is not entirely clear, but if you are referring to the right that is listed in the Second Amendment, then your assessment is mistaken. The authors of that list of rights very much viewed them as "God given", and there are clear indications of this in the wording they used there and elsewhere in the founding documents. The list is just that, a list of rights that the government neither grants, nor may rescind.

If I misunderstood what you were trying to say, I apologize.

TFred

 

[darthmord]

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DonTreadOnMe wrote:

Bill in VA wrote:

DonTreadOnMe wrote:

Oh, I think it is quite 'within the law'. The problem is, it was made clear to him they would not give him his permit before they are required by law.

IMHO, it is very clearly an expression of contempt against permit applicants by Chesapeake.

If they needed 45 days, that would be one thing....we are not talking about that. They simply don't want to issue the permit, period.

It's bovine excrement in my opinion, legal or not.

Again, let's play the devil's advocate and look at this objectively for a moment. You're stating that their choice to wait until the last lawful minute to issue a permit or denial is a "problem" because they don't need 45 days. What do "needs" have to do with it? Since when do I need to carry a sidearm, or even need to own a firearm? We all know the answer is that "needs" have nothing to do with it. I have a right to own and carry a firearm. Now that the shoe is on the other foot and we're talking about the city'srights/lawful authority, as opposed to our rights/lawful authority, how is that any more of a "problem" than the open-carry of a sidearm? Certainly plenty of folks see open-carry as a "problem" as evidenced by the very existence of this entire web site. All I'm saying is let's not be so quick to rail about someone else's rights simply because we don't agree with the way they choose to exercise them; let's take the high road for a change.

My .02

Let me clarify my complaint... If Chesapeake simply was bad at the process and took 45 days for them to process a CHP fine.

Let me break down to you another way. say you have an employee and you tell him he has two days to finish a specific task to meet your guidelines for his job. ...and like clock work he turns in his task one very two days. Your all happy right? Only you start to wonder, why does he never get one done early or turn in one late. Wile others that work for you are done sooner and some run over. Hmmm... so you monitor his work and notice he is great at his job and it only takes him two hours to do the job. On rather than going on to the next task, he waits for the two day guild line to expire and then turns it in. He meets the requirment, but will make no effort at all to give one inch of effort past it! Would you give him a raise? Would you look to replace him with a better more eager employee? I would fire his butt on the spot. It is not his job to drag his feet. ...and he dang sure would not be good example for others at the job.

The 45 days is the requirement they 'have' to meet. They do not have a 'right' to be lazy, they dont have a 'right' to thumb there nose at us, or do everything they can to keep us from exersizing our rights. If processing a permit takes 5 days, it should be completed in 5 days...period.

We should demand nothing less of our goverment than any boss would expect of an emplyee. ...I demand more.

They might be legal...but they are still desierving of contempt, anger and a pink slip!

Therein lies the difference between a Capitalist Business and a Socialist Government.

The Business wants the greatest amount of work in the least amount of time. More work chargeable = more revenue. More Revenue in less time = More Revenue per minute.

The Government encourages a socialist view of 'good enough for government work'. Excellence in work is seldom rewarded as you are working for the People and the People just deserve nothing more than what they pay for. Job security is good so motivation to provide a level of excellence beyond what is necessary to stay employed is minimal at best. The whole idea is to do nothing more than the bare minimum required to provide basic but equal service.

 

[GLENGLOCKER]

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AJG wrote:

GLENGLOCKER wrote:

Wow!!! You need to realize that they (the Government) works for us, and not the other way around. A bit irritating that people dare question the agents of the government of why my paperwork to exercise my GOD given rights isn't here yet!!! I would like to see if you and Bill in VA had the same attitude if a judge handed down a very light sentenence to someone that did harm to you or your family. Also some people may not want to OC. Did you ever think of that???????

Wow.... sorry I cant resist, last comment and I also, like Bill, am done with this thread. Glen its not a "GOD GIVEN RIGHT"! Next time a Chesapeake election happens, just make sure that you vote in CHP quick to approve representatives and all the madness ends.

Sorry to see you're such a lover of the Government. Are you by any chance an LEO type???

 

[AJG]

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No need to be sorry Glenglocker.We both have the constitutional right to free speech. I'm not a LEO type. And yes I support the government, but not in all its aspects. But what I do support is that we have a process. And whether or not its perfect or not isnt my issue, but it seems to be a issue here nevertheless. Like someone said a few posts ago, be glad your in Va a SHALL ISSUE state and not a state such as NJ, MD or Ill. and that "GOD GIVEN" right, as you so eloquently stated isnt afforded you. This might be a issue for the Church, since God is involved. 45 days isnt that long.

 

[CharlesC]

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It is probably just a backlog. Fairfax county gets dozens of permit applications a day. They have to conduct 50 state background checks on every applicant and verify all the data on the form. While one application may not take long, I'm sure they add up.

I imagine over a week or 2 is taken up just getting routed across the hall to a judge. Then a judge probably has to read each petition and all the officer notes to verify that it is ok before he signs off on it. You know that any officer or judge that approves a CCP will be raked over the coals if the applicant turns out to be some nutcase or psycho.

I imagine they have to check veteran status or to see if somonehas a dishonorable discharge and dealing with the VA take ages.

I would bet that many applications are signed on the last day even before all the background info gets returned. As long as there are no red-flags, they would have to approve the application.

Its still faster than getting a Passport or info back from the IRS on an audit!

-CharlesC

 

[Citizen]

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CharlesC wrote:

SNIP Fairfax county gets dozens of permit applications a day.

They're doing a booming business if true. That would work out to over 6000 applications a year.

Who is your source for the info?

The last time I called, near the end of 2007, I think they were trending for 2200 for that year.