• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Car to pedestrian transition

SteveInCO

Regular Member
Joined
May 3, 2013
Messages
299
Location
El Paso County, Colorado
I have very pro-gun friends in Ohio I sometimes come to visit.

I see by the information page that one may not open carry in a vehicle without a concealed carry permit, but otherwise Ohio is fairly OC friendly (almost as much so as Colorado (outside of the Cesspit and County of Denver). Being from Colorado my permit is not valid in Ohio so clearly I have to OC if I'm going to carry at all.

So let's say I drive to the grocery store. Apparently I can't be wearing the gun in the car (where and how can I legally transport it (and no I am not asking about THROUGH Ohio)? I've heard some pretty hitlerian things), but I can carry it in the store. So how do you work the transition from being in the car to being in the store?
 

Hareuhal

Regular Member
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
209
Location
somewhere
WRemove the magazine from the firearm BEFORE you enter the vehicle.

Remove the round from the chamber BEFORE you enter the vehicle.

Store the loaded magazine & unloaded firearm in separate compartments that buckle...etc


Transporting Unloaded
ORC 2923.16

(B) No person shall knowingly transport or have a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle in such a manner that the firearm is accessible to the operator or any passenger without leaving the vehicle.(C) No person shall knowingly transport or have a firearm in a motor vehicle, unless the person may lawfully possess that firearm under applicable law of this state or the United States, the firearm is unloaded, and the firearm is carried in one of the following ways:[1] In a closed package, box, or case;(2) In a compartment that can be reached only by leaving the vehicle;(3) In plain sight and secured in a rack or holder made for the purpose;....


Unloaded Definition / Compartment Definition
ORC 2923.16


(a) "Unloaded" means, with respect to a firearm other than a firearm described in division (K)(6) of this section, that no ammunition is in the firearm in question, no magazine or speed loader containing ammunition is inserted into the firearm in question , and one of the following applies: There is no ammunition in a magazine or speed loader that is in the vehicle in question and that may be used with the firearm in question. Any magazine or speed loader that contains ammunition and that may be used with the firearm in question is stored in a compartment within the vehicle in question that cannot be accessed without leaving the vehicle or is stored in a container that provides complete and separate enclosure.(b) For the purposes of division (K)(5)(a)( of this section, a "container that provides complete and separate enclosure" includes, but is not limited to, any of the following: A package, box, or case with multiple compartments, as long as the loaded magazine or speed loader and the firearm in question either are in separate compartments within the package, box, or case, or, if they are in the same compartment, the magazine or speed loader is contained within a separate enclosure in that compartment that does not contain the firearm and that closes using a snap, button, buckle, zipper, hook and loop closing mechanism, or other fastener that must be opened to access the contents or the firearm is contained within a separate enclosure of that nature in that compartment that does not contain the magazine or speed loader; A pocket or other enclosure on the person of the person in question that closes using a snap, button, buckle, zipper, hook and loop closing mechanism, or other fastener that must be opened to access the contents.(c) For the purposes of divisions (K)(5)(a) and (b) of this section, ammunition held in stripper-clips or in en-bloc clips is not considered ammunition that is loaded into a magazine or speed loader.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
 
Last edited:

SteveInCO

Regular Member
Joined
May 3, 2013
Messages
299
Location
El Paso County, Colorado
Thank you for the thorough reply!

The upshot appears to be, that I will have to handle and manipulate the firearm to load and holster it on exiting my vehicle, and handle it again to clear it before getting back into my vehicle.

What are the odds I will be MWAGed while doing all of this?
 
Last edited:

SteveInCO

Regular Member
Joined
May 3, 2013
Messages
299
Location
El Paso County, Colorado
Not sure how applicable that is to a Coloradoan visiting Ohio. Ohio would not be willing to issue me a permit.

On the other hand, I could get a non-resident Utah permit and Ohio (as well as MN, WV, VA and WA) would honor that though they don't honor Colorado permits.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,841
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Not sure how applicable that is to a Coloradoan visiting Ohio. Ohio would not be willing to issue me a permit.

On the other hand, I could get a non-resident Utah permit and Ohio (as well as MN, WV, VA and WA) would honor that though they don't honor Colorado permits.

Read the bottom of page 15 and the top of page 16.

In addition to the concealed carry prohibitions detailed above, Ohio has strict laws concerning firearms in a vehicle. If you do not have a concealed handgun license, you may not transport a loaded handgun in any manner where it is accessible to anyone inside the vehicle without leaving the vehicle. If you do not have a license, you may not transport a firearm in a vehicle unless it is unloaded and carried in one of the following ways:
•In a closed package, box or case;
•In a compartment that can be reached only by leaving the vehicle;
•In plain sight and secured in a rack or holder made for that purpose; or
•If it is a firearm at least 24 inches in overall length and if the barrel is at least 18 inches in length, it must be in plain sight with the action open or the firearm must be stripped. If the firearm is of a type in which the action will not stay open or cannot easily be stripped, it must be in plain sight.

Statutory Reference(s): ORC 2923.16(E) governs how licensees may transport loaded concealed handguns in motor vehicles.
ORC 2923.16(B) and (C) govern how firearms must be otherwise transported in a
vehicle
 

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,046
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
...The upshot appears to be, that I will have to handle and manipulate the firearm to load and holster it on exiting my vehicle, and handle it again to clear it before getting back into my vehicle.

What are the odds I will be MWAGed while doing all of this?
(my bold)

That's the big question, isn't it?

Personally, I wouldn't want to manipulate my gun and load the cylinder, or magazine, then rack the slide in a public setting - and if you do these things in a car you're risking a charge for... I believe it is "illegal transport".

I'd consider the locale where I might be doing such things, and depending on the circumstances I might a) get a recognized CCW license, or b) carry open and unloaded.

Remember, no loaded mags or speed loaders unless they're transported as previously described - otherwise they equal a "loaded gun" under Ohio law.
 

SteveInCO

Regular Member
Joined
May 3, 2013
Messages
299
Location
El Paso County, Colorado
OK that makes more sense. Sorry, I got confused because you referred me to page 17, not 15 and 16, and the first part of the document was telling me how to get a concealed weapons permit (step one: move to Ohio rather than just visit it).

But basically, its the same info Hareuhal posted. It doesn't answer my followup question; instead it creates my follow up question. I'll try asking again, with more verbiage; maybe my issue will be clarified. Allow me to set up a scenario.

If I am NOT a holder of a permit valid in Ohio, and wish to OC somewhere (say my friends and I decide to go out to dinner), I have to put the firearm in a case, and the ammo in a separate case, not readily accessible. Say, in the trunk.

(I am at least permitted to leave the ammo in the mag, as long as the mag isn't in the same box as the gun. I am thankful the people who wrote this legislation never heard of quantum tunneling, by the way.)

OK so now my friends and I have arrived at our destination.

I am now expected to, out in public, in a parking lot, handle a firearm, loading it, and then holstering it. I am now allowed to OC (provided the restaurant isn't posted).

On finishing my utterly non-alcoholic meal and waddling out the door bloated with whatever the restaurant serves, I am expected to, out in public, in a parking lot, remove the gun from the holster and unload it.

My question is, won't I be taking the risk of being called in to the police as "man with a gun in his hand"? Generally OC is considered cool where it is allowed, but having a gun out of the holster is not. (I know in Colorado you can be charged with brandishing or menacing.) Yet I am required (apparently) to do precisely this from time to time, in order to exercise my rights.

This seems like a contradiction to me. Can you help resolve it? Maybe it's not a serious deal in Ohio to be handling your firearm when you are doing it to transition from car to pedestrian? Is there some way to do this that won't get you in trouble?
 
Last edited:

JustaShooter

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Messages
728
Location
NE Ohio
It really boils down to how discrete you can be - and especially if you are content to carry magazine capacity rather than capacity + 1, it can be very discrete:

Exit vehicle, move to rear & open trunk, step in close, keep everything low and obscured, retrieve firearm & magazine from storage, insert magazine, chamber round, holster. What, 5 seconds from the time you touch the firearm?

When you return, open trunk & step close, un-holster firearm, drop magazine, eject chambered round (might be handy to have something to catch said round so you don't have to chase it around the trunk), store firearm, insert ejected cartridge into magazine, store magazine, close trunk. A bit longer than when retrieving the firearm but if you only count the time the firearm is unholstered and in your hand, about the same.

As to MWAG calls, it really depends on where you are, how discrete you are, and who sees you. I don't know if Ohio has a brandishing / menacing law (I'm not aware of one, but I haven't researched it), but since you aren't directing the action toward anyone that shouldn't be an issue in any case. There are those who do this daily here in Ohio and I don't see any posts about MWAG calls due to the transition, all the ones I see are about the act of openly carrying itself so I wouldn't worry about the transition part so much.
 

Nascar24Glock

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
252
Location
Johnson City, TN
OK that makes more sense. Sorry, I got confused because you referred me to page 17, not 15 and 16, and the first part of the document was telling me how to get a concealed weapons permit (step one: move to Ohio rather than just visit it).

But basically, its the same info Hareuhal posted. It doesn't answer my followup question; instead it creates my follow up question. I'll try asking again, with more verbiage; maybe my issue will be clarified. Allow me to set up a scenario.

If I am NOT a holder of a permit valid in Ohio, and wish to OC somewhere (say my friends and I decide to go out to dinner), I have to put the firearm in a case, and the ammo in a separate case, not readily accessible. Say, in the trunk.

(I am at least permitted to leave the ammo in the mag, as long as the mag isn't in the same box as the gun. I am thankful the people who wrote this legislation never heard of quantum tunneling, by the way.)

OK so now my friends and I have arrived at our destination.

I am now expected to, out in public, in a parking lot, handle a firearm, loading it, and then holstering it. I am now allowed to OC (provided the restaurant isn't posted).

On finishing my utterly non-alcoholic meal and waddling out the door bloated with whatever the restaurant serves, I am expected to, out in public, in a parking lot, remove the gun from the holster and unload it.

My question is, won't I be taking the risk of being called in to the police as "man with a gun in his hand"? Generally OC is considered cool where it is allowed, but having a gun out of the holster is not. (I know in Colorado you can be charged with brandishing or menacing.) Yet I am required (apparently) to do precisely this from time to time, in order to exercise my rights.

This seems like a contradiction to me. Can you help resolve it? Maybe it's not a serious deal in Ohio to be handling your firearm when you are doing it to transition from car to pedestrian? Is there some way to do this that won't get you in trouble?

First of all, if the restaurant serves alcohol and you don't have a permit, DO NOT CARRY IN THERE! It is a felony in Ohio for a non-permittee to carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol. Leave it in your car.

And, yes, you will basically have to run the risk of getting MWAG'ed ("Man With A Gun" call) by publicly handling and loading or unloading your firearm every time you enter or exit a vehicle. Open carriers in Wisconsin called this transition "the dance" and had to do the same thing before Wisconsin modified its carry law. The best advice I can offer is for you to be as discreet about it as possible without concealing it (for example, after you take your handgun out of the trunk, face away from whatever business you're at to load it).
 

SteveInCO

Regular Member
Joined
May 3, 2013
Messages
299
Location
El Paso County, Colorado
First of all, if the restaurant serves alcohol and you don't have a permit, DO NOT CARRY IN THERE! It is a felony in Ohio for a non-permittee to carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol. Leave it in your car.

Ah, thanks for that info!!

And yes the "do all the work within the trunk" tactic that you are both (Nascar24Glock and justashooter) suggesting seems like the best way to go. The only time someone will SEE your hand on the gun is the second it takes to holster/unholster it.

And I generally carry with mag capacity anyway, and a spare mag.

I may well just go ahead and get that Utah permit.


Remember, no loaded mags or speed loaders unless they're transported as previously described - otherwise they equal a "loaded gun" under Ohio law.

Sorry I didn't see this response--I think you wrote and posted it while I was composing mine, yours got shown above mine and I never saw it until I scrolled back.

But I had concluded it would absolutely SUCK to be a revolver guy under these circumstances. And I did figure out separate containers.
 

MyWifeSaidYes

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
1,028
Location
Logan, OH
WHERE in Ohio you are visiting has a lot to do with how you will be perceived.

In Franklin county (Columbus) and the surrounding counties, and all the way down through the southeastern portion of the state, you probably wouldn't get an MWAG call if you were just loading/holstering.

In other parts of the state, like Cleveland, Cincinnati, Dayton and Youngstown, you might want to be more discreet.

As an open carrier, I gave up long ago on being discreet about legal activities.
 

Hareuhal

Regular Member
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
209
Location
somewhere
Back when I was waiting for my permit to arrive in the mail, I did this daily.

I never had a problem in the Cleveland area. Its rather easy to do without anyone noticing, most people just go about their day.

If Eye95 gets in here, he'll be able to tell you what its like - he has been doing this for a while, an unless I am mistaken, still hasn't obtained a permit.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
 

JustaShooter

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Messages
728
Location
NE Ohio
Its rather easy to do without anyone noticing, most people just go about their day.
There is that - I once switched from an OWB paddle holster to an IWB hybrid while talking to a friend and he never noticed what I was doing - and yes, I know he didn't notice at the time because after we walked away from the back of my vehicle he asked me "hey, where'd your gun go?" :uhoh: My son who was with me and watched the whole thing just shook his head. :rolleyes:

Not that I think everyone is as unobservant as that, but I think you'd be surprised at how many are truly clueless as they wander through their day.
 

SteveInCO

Regular Member
Joined
May 3, 2013
Messages
299
Location
El Paso County, Colorado
WHERE in Ohio you are visiting has a lot to do with how you will be perceived.

In Franklin county (Columbus) and the surrounding counties, and all the way down through the southeastern portion of the state, you probably wouldn't get an MWAG call if you were just loading/holstering.

In other parts of the state, like Cleveland, Cincinnati, Dayton and Youngstown, you might want to be more discreet.

As an open carrier, I gave up long ago on being discreet about legal activities.

I actually called my friend to ask him. He lives in Columbus, and he seems to think that the act of open carry (not even "the dance") WILL get you into a confrontation with the cops, every time you try it. He (not surprisingly) strongly advises me not to try it and thinks I should just get a Utah permit and CC. (After, of course launching into choir preaching-to about why we shouldn't need a permit!)

However, I am pretty sure he is basing this on things he hears, rather than personal experience. This leads to a couple of errors: He sees incidents from all over the state, thus hears about all the places you don't want to try it. Also he ONLY has bad incidents to go on, since you don't hear about the people who didn't get harassed. The dog that didn't bark. And he himself has no first-hand knowledge since he doesn't carry at all, much less openly.

I'd be interested in as many other perspectives as possible.
 

JustaShooter

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Messages
728
Location
NE Ohio
If time, opportunity and finances allow I'd recommend the Utah license just to avoid the hassle factor of "the dance" whether or not you decide to take advantage of the ability to CC.
 

MyWifeSaidYes

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
1,028
Location
Logan, OH
If he has no experience, that should be considered when taking his advice.

Let's get him some experience.

I'm in Columbus.

Ask your friend if he wants to go for an open carry walk with me.

Maybe we can do lunch.

Somewhere simple and public, with children around, like a McDonald's.

If we are harassed by law enforcement, I'll pick up the tab. If we are left alone, he pays.


And yes, I'm quite serious.
 

JustaShooter

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Messages
728
Location
NE Ohio
If he has no experience, that should be considered when taking his advice.

Let's get him some experience.

I'm in Columbus.

Ask your friend if he wants to go for an open carry walk with me.

Maybe we can do lunch.

Somewhere simple and public, with children around, like a McDonald's.

If we are harassed by law enforcement, I'll pick up the tab. If we are left alone, he pays.


And yes, I'm quite serious.
I so wish I lived closer, I think the occasional lunch with those terms would be a hoot. "Let's see, I think it is your turn to pick, so it's my turn to pay if we get harassed by cops." :lol:
 

SteveInCO

Regular Member
Joined
May 3, 2013
Messages
299
Location
El Paso County, Colorado
If he has no experience, that should be considered when taking his advice.

....

And yes, I'm quite serious.

Unfortunately I doubt he will take you up on that. But I *have* already realized his sample set is incredibly biased (based on bad news (which gets reported of course), being statewide (so anti-gun places get thrown in), and no good stories told).

I am still interested in as many people's input about Columbus as possible though; I want MY sample set to be as broad as possible.

I may even able to point him here so he can read the stories directly.
 
Last edited:
Top