Back up guns?

[Michigander]

What is your primary caliber? If possible, find something smaller in the same caliber.
If not,and u plan to go small. just go real small. You;d be surprised what a .25 or a .32 can do in a pinch. And you can be sure to have it in a pocket somewhere,no matter what you are wearing.

I'd have thought .25 was sufficient for penetrating with the faster FMJ rounds, but quite a lot of research has indicated to me that it isn't. A couple long time cops I talked to recalled dozens of cases where it failed to penetrate bone, even from contact distance to the head when people were trying to kill themselves. .25 , at least in a 3" or less barrel is a throat, eye or bizarre luck caliber. It lacks both the velocity and the weight to work properly and consistently.

In terms of mouse guns, .32 with FMJ or flat nose ball ammo such as Buffalo Bore, this is about the bare minimum for any significant chance at the desired ballistic effect of sufficient penetration to quickly disrupt the central nervous system of an assailant.

I'd call thumb safeties and the .25 ACP John Brownings biggest failures.

 

[DevinWKuska]

I'd have thought .25 was sufficient for penetrating with the faster FMJ rounds, but quite a lot of research has indicated to me that it isn't. A couple long time cops I talked to recalled dozens of cases where it failed to penetrate bone, even from contact distance to the head when people were trying to kill themselves. .25 , at least in a 3" or less barrel is a throat, eye or bizarre luck caliber. It lacks both the velocity and the weight to work properly and consistently.

In terms of mouse guns, .32 with FMJ or flat nose ball ammo such as Buffalo Bore, this is about the bare minimum for any significant chance at the desired ballistic effect of sufficient penetration to quickly disrupt the central nervous system of an assailant.

I'd call thumb safeties and the .25 ACP John Brownings biggest failures.

First of all its a BUG... not a primary sidearm so it doesnt necessarily need to be "balls out" as they say. Additionally I would like to point out as stated before in another thread that victims of those .25 ravens from the hands of Gang memebers were not fairing so well. I would say the .25 anyways is good just like a .22lr handgun. It has enough velocity to penetrate but not enough to keep going through the person. Instead it bounces around internally leaving a nasty pile of puree'd internal organs.

 

[irish52084]

I ditched the BUG idea. I convinced myself it was time to get a 1911 again, so I ordered at Rock Island tactical 2 tone.

The reviews on the RIA tactical and RIA in general were very good, so I figured I'd try a "cheap" 1911 this time and see how it compares to my past higher end 1911's.

 

[Michigander]

First of all its a BUG... not a primary sidearm so it doesnt necessarily need to be "balls out" as they say. Additionally I would like to point out as stated before in another thread that victims of those .25 ravens from the hands of Gang memebers were not fairing so well. I would say the .25 anyways is good just like a .22lr handgun. It has enough velocity to penetrate but not enough to keep going through the person. Instead it bounces around internally leaving a nasty pile of puree'd internal organs.

Depends on the gun. In terms of a mouse gun, as in 2.5" barrel or smaller, what you're saying isn't generally true according to first hand accounts I read and heard, as well as the laws of physics as best as I know them. That goes for any short barreled .22 or .25, but it's even more true of the post 68 cast zinc .25's such as the Raven you mentioned which can't even take full power ammo. Sure, you could carry a longer barreled .22 or .25, which can be counted on to perform as you mentioned. but at that point you may as well carry a 9mm or 40, just like it would be better to be carrying the equally small Seecamp as opposed to a .25.

Freak happenings do happen. It's not wise to count on them.

 

[Aknazer]

Umm, open carry of cell phones is 50 state legal. My phone fits next to my gun in any of my pockets. Also note that some people like to carry pocket guns behind their wallets to prevent printing. Lastly remember that you have 4-6 pockets, and only mentioned 3 items. If you have pants which can't fit these thing all at once, you probably need to go shopping.

My current pants have four pockets but I never use the rear pockets as I generally find it uncomfortable to sit on the item and it wears out the pants a lot faster. Also I simply don't trust the wallet in the back pocket unless its a chain wallet (which I haven't used since high school) and I don't trust my cell phone outside of the pocket, though I do see how that would help. Also unless I was in cargo pants I still wouldn't be able to fit the gun into a pocket reasonably.

Now I might need some new cargo pants, but finding a decent pair is a pain, especially if I want to avoid wearing all black as that causes people to mistake me for gothic rather than wardrobe impaired.

Your wife lets you have your wallet?

When she tries to take it I get pissy and the few times I've let her carry it we ended up splitting up in the store and I needed it to pay for something, so now o almost always refuse to let her carry it. Though she doesn't trust me with it whenever I go by guns, video games, or electronics...which are the first places I go to in a store!

 

[45acpForMe]

Now I might need some new cargo pants, but finding a decent pair is a pain, especially if I want to avoid wearing all black ...

http://www.lapolicegear.com/511-tactical-tac-lite-pro-pants.html

The have 6 other colors if you don't like black.

 

[Aknazer]

Oh I like black. That's why I have black shoes, black shirts, and I might even have a pair of black pants somewhere (assuming my wife hasn't found them and tossed them due to how old, faded, and holey they are thanks to that wallet with a chain I mentioned earlier...). But then I have people ask if I'm goth and my wife complains that I'm wearing three shades of black; or worse, that I'm wearing a shade of brown or gray! So I've found that non-black pants is the easiest way to break things up even though it matches with everything

Though those black pants might work with some of my non-black shirts...

 

[tcmech]

I see so many people saying they pocket carry and it makes me wonder where you keep your cell phone/wallet. I always keep these items in my front pockets with a knife in the phone pocket, so there would be no way I could pocket carry unless my wife had either my phone or wallet in her purse.

taurus model 85 in a pocket holster, two spare mags, a speed loader and a knife, got a wallet in the back pocket, a phone (left side) and a glock 36(right side) on the belt

 

[Landpimp]

only one style of BUG gun IMOP.....the S&W hammerless J frame in its many flavors. (maybe the Ruger or Taurus, but not for me)

what I see in LE use is by far the 642/442, suppisingly quite a few 340's, next up is the G26/7, but after a bit most want something slimer, so its the Kahr P/PM in 9/40/45(I prefer to skip the 40s and the 9's are the most relaible out of the box, but the 45 is actully my favorite)

I have many other small semis but what I carry EVERY SINGLE DAY is a 340pd, I trust it over anything else

FYI, S&W is working on bringing back a 9mm J frame(ala the old 940)

 

[45acpForMe]

...Kahr P/PM in 9/40/45(I prefer to skip the 40s and the 9's are the most relaible out of the box, but the 45 is actully my favorite)

I can't argue with a revolver as a BUG but I just shoot semi's better.

I strongly considered the Kahr P45 and PM45 but decided to standardize on Sig Sauer and carry the P220 compact as my BUG. I may pick up another kahr (have two) someday if I ever decide to sell another gun or two. The Sig was more expensive but I like the trigger (SRT) night sights, holster interchangeability and the magazine interchangeability with my other P220's.

The Kahr is definitely going to win the competition for weight. As far as fun shooting the Sig P220 compact shoots just like the P220 carry which is great. My other Kahr mk40 isn't that much fun to shoot and wears out your hand after 50 rounds.

 

[j4l]

Here's somethng-sort of on-topic- I've often wondered about:
A small,sub-compact, slim,.45acp using a blow-back action like that in the Makarov,etc.
We keep hearing over the years that such a design would have to have a huge/heavy/massive slide to function.

But why? the .45acp cartridge is of even lower-pressure (CUPS) than the .380/9x18 Mak,etc. Or am I completely missing something?
Some knock the blow-back designs like the Ravens, etc. while at the same time praising the Mak/CZ/Walthers which use exactly the same method of operation.
With the right strength recoil spring,in place, I fail to see why someone hasnt designed such a pistol.

 

[since9]

I just have my primary carry weapon. I used to carry a .380 ACP as a primary carry weapon, and feel like that would make a good BUG.

 

[protias]

When conceal carry passes, I'll be carrying a Ruger SP101 as my BUG.

 

[Howards]

If i recommend you to carry small guns then i will recommend you the Micro Eagle(.380). Because it suits more better in small options. What do you people think?

 

[wow6599]

For the record, I don't carry a bug........usually my CCW (warm weather) is a PM9 on my ankle or a LCP in my back pocket (in a pocket holster). My main carry gun when clothing allows is a SP101 3" in .357 with a speedloader in my pocket. That said, I can't think of a better "BUG" than a PM9.

But I don't live in Beirut either...........

 

[ocholsteroc]

Think about sky-diving. Would they consider the reserve chute 'optional'? No way

I agree, BUG'S are a must!