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Arizona, Open Carry, restaurant that serve alcohol. Question

Warren Drouin

Regular Member
Joined
May 27, 2011
Messages
125
Location
Medford, Oregon, United States
I would like to be a bit more educated about your Alcohol law in relation to firearms.

I am aware of that having a CCW and bearing concealed is legal, as long as there is nothing posted on the license premise.

My question is about the "license premise", under ARS 4-244, section 31. Where I went to the definition under ARS 4-101, section 27.
Which I am having a bit of difficulty grasping its meaning. Does the premise mean only part of the building that serves alcohol under
its license; or is it that any part of the building connected to that part that serves alcohol to be the license premise. Basically, in simple
terms, can one bear arms in the open, as long as you are not on the part of the building that serves alcohol? In example, to separate
dinning places, one serves alcohol and the other not.

Thank you for your time.
 

azcdlfred

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Messages
905
Location
Tucson, Arizona, USA
My question is about the "license premise", under ARS 4-244, section 31. Where I went to the definition under ARS 4-101, section 27. Which I am having a bit of difficulty grasping its meaning. Does the premise mean only part of the building that serves alcohol under its license; or is it that any part of the building connected to that part that serves alcohol to be the license premise. Basically, in simple terms, can one bear arms in the open, as long as you are not on the part of the building that serves alcohol? In example, to separate
dinning places, one serves alcohol and the other not.

In Arizona if a business has a permit to serve alcohol it applies to any part of the "premise" where you can consume alcohol. For restaurants that's the entire business, not just where they pour the drinks.

Where it gets tricky is places like shopping mall food courts. Some of the vendors sell booze and it can be consumed in the food court area. Many gun owners don't realize that if they are armed in the mall and stroll through the food court area where people can drink booze they are now entering a restricted area subject to the liquor laws.

A similar situation exists with various festivals on private property. Usually they have the booze drinking area partitioned off. Step inside and you fall under the booze and guns statutes.

In Oregon do they have places where you can drink in one part of the establishment but not in another? I don't think such places exist under Arizona law.

Fred
 

Warren Drouin

Regular Member
Joined
May 27, 2011
Messages
125
Location
Medford, Oregon, United States
In Oregon, businesses here have separated dinning areas for serving alcohol.
In example, Red Robin in Medford Oregon, has a alcohol part only and a non alcohol part dinning area
within the same building. Which there is a license displayed in that part of the area that serves alcohol.
Although, there is no laws here in Oregon that regulates firearms and alcohol, so it not an issue.
Though, I am trying to determine if the businesses in Arizona does the same practice, where there
are two separated dinning areas that one serves and the other does not. Then to determine
the legality in Arizona of what part is consider a license premise. Such as, the whole building, regardless
if there are two separated dinning areas, or only the part that serves.

So, if I am not mistaken, if there is a separated dinning area within the building that does not serve.
Then it is not a license premise, or am I mistaken?
 

azcdlfred

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Messages
905
Location
Tucson, Arizona, USA
In Oregon, businesses here have separated dinning areas for serving alcohol. Though, I am trying to determine if the businesses in Arizona does the same practice, where there are two separated dinning areas that one serves and the other does not. Then to determine the legality in Arizona of what part is consider a license premise. Such as, the whole building, regardless if there are two separated dinning areas, or only the part that serves. So, if I am not mistaken, if there is a separated dinning area within the building that does not serve.
Then it is not a license premise, or am I mistaken?
Arizona does not have separated dining areas, like Oregon, that don't serve alcohol. If you enter a restaurant that serves alcohol in Arizona, the entire business area falls under the liquor license statutes.

You can't carry openly where booze is served, regardless of whether or not they allow firearms. If they do allow firearms you must carry concealed and you must possess a CCW permit.

Your Oregon permit is recognized in Arizona, assuming you have one.

Fred
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,337
Location
Nevada
As a visitor to the state, you have an affirmative defense, and would not be violating the law, to open carry where alcohol is served, and not otherwise posted against carrying. You still can't drink though, and you MIGHT get asked about it.

Because I hold NV residency, I've legally OC'd several times in restaurants in AZ that serve alcohol. I've never been asked about it. If so, it is an affirmative defense if you are from out of state. You may not wish to risk the hassle, but it's worth knowing.
 

Warren Drouin

Regular Member
Joined
May 27, 2011
Messages
125
Location
Medford, Oregon, United States
Very good, I appreciate the information and your time, both of you. Even though I find that law to be a bit irritating
and troublesome, but I digress. Also, yes, I do have a Concealed Handgun License (OR). One more question before
I depart. Is there at least a requirement of a sign that indicates the establishment to be a license premise that serves alcohol?
If there is no requirement for a sign, is there at least a affirmative defense for not being officially aware of the
establishment being a license premise that serves alcohol?
 

azcdlfred

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Messages
905
Location
Tucson, Arizona, USA
Very good, I appreciate the information and your time, both of you. Even though I find that law to be a bit irritating
Arizona's Restaurant Carry law sucks. When we (AzCDL) learned about the bill we tried to get some positive changes made. Then, the NRA came in and "fixed" everything.

<< Is there at least a requirement of a sign that indicates the establishment to be a license premise that serves alcohol? >>

There is a signage requirement. Originally the sign only had to be posted near the liquor license which was kept in a back office somewhere. Now there is a requirement to post at the entrance. Many places have a tiny sign with a firearm, red circle and slash. It's still legit.

If a sign is posted, you cannot legally carry on the premises.

If there is no sign, you must carry discreetly (concealed sounds like a criminal act) and must possess a valid CCW (or whatever the various states call them) permit.

Fred
 
Last edited:

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,169
Location
earth's crust
Arizona's Restaurant Carry law sucks. When we (AzCDL) learned about the bill we tried to get some positive changes made. Then, the NRA came in a "fixed" everything.

<< Is there at least a requirement of a sign that indicates the establishment to be a license premise that serves alcohol? >>

There is a signage requirement. Originally the sign only had to be posted near the liquor license which was kept in a back office somewhere. Now there is a requirement to post at the entrance. Many places have a tiny sign with a firearm, red circle and slash. It's still legit.

If a sign is posted, you cannot legally carry on the premises.

If there is no sign, you must carry discreetly (concealed sounds like a criminal act) and must possess a valid CCW (or whatever the various states call them) permit.

Fred

I don't talk to the NRA management anymore ... they don't like me (being a Libertarian) and I don't like their gun control proposals.

Previous "discussions" usually go like:

Me: Is our RKBA a right ?
NRA-man: Sure.
Me: Then why are you supporting this legislation, which implies that they can regulate our RKBA.
NRA-man: What? I don't understand.
Me: Exactly.
NRA-man: Go f--ck yourself
Me: Oh, I think you understand just perfectly
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
Wow! What a stupid law! I just moved here from Wisconsin and now have an AZ drivers license but not a AZ permit because I thought it was a Constitutional Carry state. I have open carried in numerous restaurants because that's all I do, open carry. I will adjust my behavior and start bugging my legislators.
 

azcdlfred

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Messages
905
Location
Tucson, Arizona, USA
Wow! What a stupid law! I just moved here from Wisconsin and now have an AZ drivers license but not a AZ permit because I thought it was a Constitutional Carry state. I have open carried in numerous restaurants because that's all I do, open carry. I will adjust my behavior and start bugging my legislators.
Yes, it's a very stupid law. The liquor and restaurant lobbies are so powerful that it took over a decade for that weak and watered down law to pass. We'll probably get a Campus Carry bills passed before we can get a better Restaurant Carry law.

Fred
 
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