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Anyone ever seen a traffic ticket like this?

J1MB0B

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2011
Messages
239
Location
Tacoma, Washington
#1
My sister got stopped for speeding a while back. She got her discovery today.
Look at the officer's "report", if you can call it that. It doesn't have any identifying information on her or her vehicle, no case number, no ticket number, no officer's signature or certification statement.
I don't know what to make of it, I've never seen one like this before. Sorry, the images kind of suck, but if you zoom in they are clear enough to read.
View attachment 11208
View attachment 11209
View attachment 11207
 

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Alsherry

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2013
Messages
50
Location
Puyallup, Washington, United States
#2
Looks pretty standard to me. I had like 2 tickets that looked just like that. The case number is actually the infraction number, and the signature is "electronic". Implied, basically. If you contest it, they'll should give you a court date and location. 5 mph over, ehh, looks like the officer was bored.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
 

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509rifas

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Messages
252
Location
Yakima County
#5
All of it looked pretty standard to me, there is a report (and most infraction reports look like that) and an infraction case number that was stamped over on the top. All infractions have a case number, and if you care to, you can look them up in the WA Court database.
 

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J1MB0B

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2011
Messages
239
Location
Tacoma, Washington
#6
On the second page posted, there is a designated place for the officers report. It says "The information in and attatched to this citation/notice of infraction is incorporated by reference into this report." Every ticket I have ever seen, and Ive had more than my fair share, has the officers report in that space.
The third page posted is what I assume that statment is refering to.
That entire page has no identifying information at all. It could have been a page from an unrelated ticket picked up off a clerks desk by mistake.
It isnt signed electronicaly or with ink by the officer. It could have been made up and written by anyone.
You would think that if they are going to use a continuation sheet or other documentation as eveidence, it would have the same identification markings printed in the margin like the other two pages.
 

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Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,463
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
#8
What is the make and model number of the LIDAR machine?
Where is the record of the calibration?
Was she the only car on the road? (most manuals state that for an accurate reading that the target must be the only one on the road.
Where is the copy of his training certification?
Has that police station ever changes makes/models of LIDAR in that 17 years?
How does LIDAR work?
But wait, the type of LIDAR changed in 2006, less than 17 years ago...
LIDAR has been thrown out of courts due to lack of scientific accuracy.
ETC.
Don't give up!

EDIT
------
Put up a good fight!

There are a whole list of questions to keep asking.

Where is the engineering study required per RCWs 46.61.400 and 46.61.405?
Where is the local authorities review per RCW 46.61.415?
How was your sister (?) acting in an unsafe manor?

ETC ETC
 

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Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,172
Location
earth's crust
#9
Under WA special rules regarding ticket adjudication one can conduct and investigation; hindering such investigation would be a violation of the discovery rules.

Suggest she go over to measure the range that they use to check the LIDAR device ...

They'll likely not allow her to and then she can file a motion to dismiss for failure to follow discovery rules.
 

Zohan

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Messages
34
Location
US Navy
#10
Where is the engineering study required per RCWs 46.61.400 and 46.61.405?
Where is the local authorities review per RCW 46.61.415?
How was your sister (?) acting in an unsafe manor?
ETC ETC
Not sure how the above questions are material in this case. RCW 46.61.400 states the maximum speed limit for state highways will be set at 60mph:

2) Except when a special hazard exists that requires lower speed for compliance with subsection (1) of this section, the limits specified in this section or established as hereinafter authorized shall be maximum lawful speeds, and no person shall drive a vehicle on a highway at a speed in excess of such maximum limits.

(a) Twenty-five miles per hour on city and town streets;

(b) Fifty miles per hour on county roads;

(c) Sixty miles per hour on state highways[/SIZE][/SIZE]


The only statute that would actually apply in this case is RCW 46.61.410 as RCW 46.61.415 specifically states the speed limit may increase but not to more than 60mph. RCW 46.61.405 does not apply because it only addresses reduction of the speed limit by the secretary of transportation.

Although RCW 46.61.410 mentions an engineering investigation, in this case it would not be required as the section of highway she was cited for exceeding the speed limit on is set at 60mph which is the normal state maximum. The secretary of transportation would need to conduct an engineering and traffic investigation study to determine if it is safe to increas the speed limit of that section of road abovce 60mph, per the exception set forth by RCW 46.61.410 to increase the state maximum limit.

The other questions you suggest about LIDAR are still relevant and should be looked into if the person who received the speeding ticket plans on contesting it.

-Z
 

Zohan

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Messages
34
Location
US Navy
#11
The real question one should be asking is...

...what is the relevance of this thread to OC or firearms?

-Z
 

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J1MB0B

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2011
Messages
239
Location
Tacoma, Washington
#13
The real question one should be asking is...

...what is the relevance of this thread to OC or firearms?

-Z
I forgot to mention that at the time of the stop she was open carrying. He did t ask, she didnt tell. The only thing out of her mouth was "I dont answer questions, am I free to go."

Is your boat floating yet?
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,463
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
#15
Not sure how the above questions are material in this case. RCW 46.61.400 states the maximum speed limit for state highways will be set at 60mph:

2) Except when a special hazard exists that requires lower speed for compliance with subsection (1) of this section, the limits specified in this section or established as hereinafter authorized shall be maximum lawful speeds, and no person shall drive a vehicle on a highway at a speed in excess of such maximum limits.

(a) Twenty-five miles per hour on city and town streets;

(b) Fifty miles per hour on county roads;

(c) Sixty miles per hour on state highways[/SIZE][/SIZE]


The only statute that would actually apply in this case is RCW 46.61.410 as RCW 46.61.415 specifically states the speed limit may increase but not to more than 60mph. RCW 46.61.405 does not apply because it only addresses reduction of the speed limit by the secretary of transportation.

Although RCW 46.61.410 mentions an engineering investigation, in this case it would not be required as the section of highway she was cited for exceeding the speed limit on is set at 60mph which is the normal state maximum. The secretary of transportation would need to conduct an engineering and traffic investigation study to determine if it is safe to increas the speed limit of that section of road abovce 60mph, per the exception set forth by RCW 46.61.410 to increase the state maximum limit.

The other questions you suggest about LIDAR are still relevant and should be looked into if the person who received the speeding ticket plans on contesting it.

-Z
Oh? Then why is it 65 and 70 on parts of I-5 and I-90 that are still in Washington?
 

Primus

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
3,939
Location
United States
#18
So, can you hold a laser on a 1" dot at over 200 yards away on a target that is moving in more than 1 direct?
Why would it be a 1in dot? Its the center mass of the vehicle your trying to hit. Depending on the vehicle that's a pretty big target. Also have you seen a lidar set up? Has a full butt stock rig to keep it steady. Plus a reticle to "sight" the target.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
 

Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
3,042
Location
northern wis
#19
I wrote thousands of speed citations with LIDAR the one I used cover about 8 inch's at 200 yards. No trouble holding it steady enough to get a good solid reading.

A judge asked me the same question about holding it steady I informed him a shoot prairie dogs out to 500 yards and a car is a lot bigger then they are.

If one was not steady on the target vehicle you wouldn't get a reading.

They are a very accurate single vehicle capable speed measuring device when used properly

In Wis. the speed equipment information was never put on the actual citation but always made available to the defendant during disclosure or at time of trial.
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,463
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
#20
Why would it be a 1in dot? Its the center mass of the vehicle your trying to hit. Depending on the vehicle that's a pretty big target. Also have you seen a lidar set up? Has a full butt stock rig to keep it steady. Plus a reticle to "sight" the target.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
If it, the laser, moves from the bumper to the top of the car in the time it takes to do a reading it will measure that change in distance into the speed calculated reading.
 

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