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Anti-Police sentiment among Oregon Open Carry???

do you feel ALL Law Enforcement Officers are to be feared and distrusted


  • Total voters
    7

Teddybearfrmhell

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The past few days i have been wondering if i was the exception to the rule or the norm....

with all the anti-cop feeling voiced here on another thread, i was just wondering how other oregon citizens feel...... but first, i shall put my neck out and tell you how i feel....

#1 I have been arrested twice, i was guilty BOTH times, i was stupid and i got caught, i paid the price for MY actions.... i do not fear the police

#2 The police in do the best job they can under the circumstances and guidlines they have..... i do not fear the police

#3 There was a local incedent here in medford which i believe with all my heart was a violation of this mans 2,4, and 5th Ammendment rights in addition to many civil rights and maybe even his right to privacy reguarding his workplace records and files..... and yet i do not fear the police ....

#4 I have been pulled over by the police for a traffic violation , while open carrying..... and was let off with a warning, my handgun was never mentioned...... i do not fear the police.

#5 I open carry on my motorcycle EVERY time i ride.... police see it, they do not harrass .... i do not fear the police.....

i contend that the police i have had contact with are hard working low paid guys doing a tough job to the best of their ability.... i also contend that locally, their superiors are pea brains with no idea what their actions mean.

as i have said before...... i do not fear the police until they show up on my doorstep to take away my guns..... i go from patriot to rebel with that one knock.

i would love to hear from other oregunners on this, your feelings, experiences etc etc. i am trying to figure out if i joined the wrong group.....

i am here to advocate open carry, not bash the police.....

and i really am only interested in the replies from current oregon residents about current oregon police experiences.....

thank you
 

tofubento

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What about a 3rd option?

C: Indifferent

From my experiences I am very very much so on the Fence on the love hate aspect of police. But that is me.
 

Volcom777

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I like your attitude Teddy. I have somewhat the same feelings as you.

-i have been arrested way to many times in my life, on all of them i was guilty except for one time, which was the most serious time of my life. had I not exercised my 5th ammendmant right there is a good chance I could be sitting in prison to this day. the only time in my life I have ever feared the police is when I was breaking the law....nothing on my record however prevents me from legally owning a firearm, all though I did fear my background check when i first got it just out of paranioa.....

-imo most cops are good people, normal everyday people with familys like you and me. I work in the trucking/warehouse industry. i have met some pretty terrible forklift operators and truck drivers, and co-workers who just really dont give a crap about their company, themselves, there rep, being a man, honesty, or any other core values that imo a man should have. basically, the bad apples.

-police are no different, there are alot of police in this world which makes for a lot of bad apples. like any other job in the world, there will be dishonest, untrustworthy, and down right bad people in law enforcement. unfortantley, they are very closely watched and reported on the news should anything go wrong, which is why we know about it. one unjust shooting in a decade can lead to every shooting by the police being highly scrutinized. a few bad apples can ruin the reputation of entire companys, or law enforcement agencies.

-think about it, if kgw came to your work every time something went wrong, or every time you screwed up some paperwork or made and error at work, or when joe bob screwed betty joe his coworker even though he had a loving wife at home, your work place would be a very different.

-even though we are supposed to, i just dont think its logical to hold law enforcement or anyone in political office at a higher standard that what we ourselves and our communities live at. we are all human, just some of us are much worse at being human than others.

I do not fear the police, I also would not rely on them in an emergancy to save me or my family. Hence me recently buying my first gun.

People on fear the police when they are breaking laws or have loved ones that they felt have been wronged by the police.
 

tofubento

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Good retort! Personaly I've had some bad experiences with police and 1 good experience. To me cops are like you and me and will have the same +,-, that we all have. I don't love them and I don't hate them either.
 

cassterr

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I have never been arrested and with the exception of one speeding ticket I have never been in trouble with the law. Every experience I have ever had with law enforcement professionals has been a positive one. The Portland and Tigard departments are teams though and as with all teams they are only as good as their leaders and their training. IMHO their poor training and leadership has lead to some poor choices. I cannot judge them as individuals as I have never met them. But I can judge them as a team because their actions frequently make the news. So as a whole do I trust law enforcement officers as individuals? Yes I do. Do I trust my local departments as teams? Not anymore than used car sales team.
 

We-the-People

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My father was a retired California Highway Patrolman. I have worked with or for several law enforcement agencies (never as an LEO though). I have never been arrested. I KNOW that the vast majority of police officers are trying to do a good job and do what is right.

All that said, I had to answer that I do FEAR the police because it only takes meeting one bad cop to ruin your life....LITTERALLY. Here in the Medford area, there doesn't seem to be a major problem though the Pyles incident has some very serious questions remaining to be answered and accounted for. Go to another jurisdiction though and the mere fact that we are open carrying, even in Oregon where it's legality is not in dispute, makes us targets for unlawful harassment, intimidation, and violation of our rights (Can anyone say PORTLAND).

On a daily basis the government is whittling away at our freedoms and our rights. The mere possibility of what happened to David Pyles in Medford should have EVERY gun owner concerned about the direction this country is going and how fast it is going there.

Yes I fear the police....not because they're all bad guys but because it only takes one to ruin my life. I carry an audio recorder with me almost always, I am prepared to insist upon my RIGHTS if "voluntarily" contacted by ANY police officer (good or bad), and I know that every time I strap my firearm on and carry it openly that I am taking that risk. I also know that on the few times that I have encountered law enforcement while carrying (openly or concealled) they have been professional and courteous. BUT IT ONLY TAKES ONE and that is why there is so much fear of LEO's.

Just my humble opinion, your mileage may vary.
 

MK

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I know you stated that you only care for Oregon residents' opinion so please ignore mine if you wish but as an advocate of open carry I'd still like to comment.

I think one of the reasons as to why some open carriers feel angst towards the police is becuase the officers are the ones that are confronting some carriers in regards to their rights to bear arms. If people feel disrespected or that their rights are being trampled upon and are otherwise law abidingcitizens then they may choose to focus on that issue. It is a somewhat common occurance amongst open carriers to have to deal with police so its not unreasonable to expect topics of discussion relating to these issues and a little bit of animosity voicedwhen they see others alike to them being treated wrongly.
i do not fear the police until they show up on my doorstep to take away my guns..... i go from patriot to rebel with that one knock.

In this case, you will be a rebel with a slingshot or a dead rebel that waited until the last moment to fight and protect his right to bear arms.

It would probably be more helpful to get involved when its your neighbor whose losing his firearms or the people in the state next toyours or once the gun confiscationpaper leaves someone's desk and is about to be set into motion in the streets.

If people sit back and wait until its them who are personally affronted its usually too late.

I really don't think the government is going to just ban allguns one day. If it were to be doneit will be done systematically and piecemeal to help not raise complete alarm. They will take one item at a time and then that way many people will sit back and let ithappen since it isn't them who will be directly affected. Many people don't seem to care what happens to the "other guy" if they don't also feel threatened by the action. Once a few "other guys" are taken care of, then they will move on to the next set of "other guys". That's the only way it could ever happen and even still, it would be a tough sell because there are too many people who value all of their freedoms instead of just the one or two that suits them best.

If bereaucrats one day told their law enforcement agents to go round up all the guns, I assume those agents would tell them to stick it where the sun doesn't shine. That would be an incredibly dangerous job and one I doubt that many of them would agree with in the first place.

I am not afraid of the police taking all of our guns away but I am a little worried at them taking someone's guns away. Chances are that no one is going to stick their neck out to help that "one guy" who gets crapped upon.
 

tofubento

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Your comments remind me of this poem...

"THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up."

I am sure its over used but that poem came to mind.
 

We-the-People

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MK wrote:
If bereaucrats one day told their law enforcement agents to go round up all the guns, I assume those agents would tell them to stick it where the sun doesn't shine. That would be an incredibly dangerous job and one I doubt that many of them would agree with in the first place.
I wouldn't put too much reliance on this theory. It was tested in New Orleans and there were armed patrols entering homes and taking their weapons. Many of these patrols were combat dressed, combat equipped, and certainly using governmental force to violate the Constitution and the rights of the gun owners.

At the time it happened those citizens should have been opening fire upon the unlawful criminals who, under color of authority, were kicking in their doors (in some cases) and unconstitutionally taking their firearms.

This is one of the reasons there are now groups like the 3 percenters and the Oath Keepers. But don't rely on those agents to not violate the law en masse.
 

MK

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We-the-People wrote:
I wouldn't put too much reliance on this theory. It was tested in New Orleans and there were armed patrols entering homes and taking their weapons. Many of these patrols were combat dressed, combat equipped, and certainly using governmental force to violate the Constitution and the rights of the gun owners.


New Orleans was ripe for the pickings though. Communications were out and the population was discombobulated. Many had fled the area so the ratio of armed agentto regular citizen was increased.

I do think its a good example because it did happen but it would take some incredible extremes to pull something like this off nationwide. It would be extremely difficult unless martial law was declared and communications were massively interrupted.
 

We-the-People

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MK wrote:
We-the-People wrote:
I wouldn't put too much reliance on this theory. It was tested in New Orleans and there were armed patrols entering homes and taking their weapons. Many of these patrols were combat dressed, combat equipped, and certainly using governmental force to violate the Constitution and the rights of the gun owners.


New Orleans was ripe for the pickings though. Communications were out and the population was discombobulated. Many had fled the area so the ratio of armed agentto regular citizen was increased.

I do think its a good example because it did happen but it would take some incredible extremes to pull something like this off nationwide. It would be extremely difficult unless martial law was declared and communications were massively interrupted.

And that is exactly why we can not let them EVER do it to anyone. If we don't stop it when we do have communication, they will do it when there isn't communication. We can not allow the media and the governement to propagandize and minimize the extremely unlawful nature of their actions in incidents such as Medford's David Pyles - Unconstitutionally stripped of his RIGHTS by a government out of control and then the news media climbed into bed with the government to help them calm the public with "oh he was a nut ready to crack" type articles.

We must put our collective foot down before we must strap on combat boots and put themto the necks of our "representative" government.
 

TheHossUSMC

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Teddy you know i love you buddy, but I'm gonna have to side with We The People on this one. I can't really say it better than him. I have never been in trouble with the police ever, butI certainly have considered civil disobedience in protest. I have anhealthy distrust of ALL government including their agents. I have a few friends that are policemen and I would never trust them completely. Eventually everyone on earth will let you down in some way. You can never fully trust anyone including your spouse. I guarantee that everyones spouse, priest, policeman, etc.. has let someone down at sometime. Them being employed by the government makes me even less trustful of them.

That being said I don't condone being a jerk or mistreating police in anyway. I'm just saying that it is their job to seek out crime and arrest lawbreakers. I Don't agree with many of our laws and I lets just say that I may or may not observe them to the T everyday.
 

TheHossUSMC

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I forgot you asked for experiences. I have a few for you.

#1

So I'm out in a city park on a sunny day with my friends. We are all enjoying the sun and drawing with chalk on the sidewalk. Many people are walking by and enjoying the art, some stop and join in with their kids. All of a sudden three police cars show up and they all jump out and start a bee line over to us. I get up and approach them and askif I need to move my car. (There were not a ton of cars there and I was parked a little outside of a parking spot close to where we were) He replied "Oh no your fine. So I return to drawing with chalk. The same officer then approaches me and asks if I have a gun. I said Yes sir, If you like I will stand up and give you my concealed handgun licence. He replies yes. So I slowly remove my wallet and hand him my license. He then asks for my ID and I replied I am not required to show you my identification and you have my concealed handgun license. He informs me that it will help him verify that it is valid and I politly refused again. He then asked where my gun was and I informed him. He reasched into my belt and pulled out gun. He then unloaded it and got on his radio. As he is calling whoever verifys the CHL he tells me that I am obviously not doing anything wrong but they got a MWAG call and had to come check it out.

At this point I'm assuming that he is about to leave, but the other two officers approached. Officer 2 says why are you carrying a gun. I politly said that it was my right to do so and was a law abiding citizen. O2 then orderes me to sit on the ground as all three stand around me. O3 stands there with his arms crossed about 6 inches from my feet and the other two are behind me about 2 inches from my back. O2 then proceeds to read me the riot act about why carrying a gun is a "danger to public safety". Finally after about 10 mins of this he says where is your car so we can put your gun in there. I asked him to hand it back to me so that I could put it back in the holster. (by this time there is a large crowd watching) The officer told me it is not policy to hand people back their weapons. I felt very intimidated and didn't feel like driving to the police station to pick up my gun so I allowed him access to my car.

In short I was disapointed in them and eventually filed a complaint. I have to go right now and have no time to proof read or check spelling so my true nature will be shown haha!
 

We-the-People

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Dittos on not being a jerk to the police but still reserving our RIGHTS.

My encounters with LEO while carrying have been while driving late at night and they were looking for drunks (though none would admit it) and pulled me over for such major infractions as:

Didn't use my turn signal at 3am on the freeway when I changed lanes.

License plate lamp was out, 2am on highway 62 heading out of town.

55 in a 45 (I honestly thought I'd passed where it went up).

In each case the officer approached professionally and ID'd himself and stated why I'd been pulled over (OFFICIAL REASON in the first two instances listed), then asked for DL, registration, and proof of insurance. In each case my wife and I sat still in the vehicle with our hands in plain view and I already had the DL and CHL out and ready to hand to them when asked for. I then hand them the two cards (as they were professional and courteous). Funny, the speeding one started to walk away then turned around and asked if I was carrying tonight....LOL Each asked where the weapon was and I told them. Come to think of it, all of these were back before I began open carry. The weapon was in the small of my back (right next to my wallet). No one freaked out but then I was "normal" for here in Oregon and carrying concealed with a permit.

No tickets, not even the speeding stop (and I was guilty on that).

So....not all cops are bad. Almost all of them are GOOD. But like I said early on, it only takes one to ruin your life for good and so I do fear them. Now, imagine you're not such a "clean" citizen as myself with a spotless record and having passed god knows how many federal background checks (the BIG ones not the little phone calls for buying a firearm). If I fear the possibility of running into a bad cop, what do you think folks in that catagory feel?

I also know that it is only a matter of time before I run into one or more LEO's who, individually or as a department, don't take kindly to citizens who expect their rights to be respected.I imagine Portland or Salem is where this will happen as 10 months of OC in Medford has resulted in ZERO interactions with police due to OC. And I know that they have seen me as I carried at the April 15th tax day tea party in downtown Medford where at least a half dozen of them walked by and eyeballed the weapon (maybe they were just envyingmy FN 5.7 who knows).

On the other hand, I OC'd in Salem for the 9-12 rally (2009) at the rally as well as in town at a fast food restaurant without incident. On that day I know for a fact that the police were called on me while at the rally. This I know because I asked the Salem PD about it due to having seen an officer observing me during the rally. He pulled in on a motor unit, watched for about 5 minutes, and left....as it should be. Turns out Salem PD did not handle the rally but their officers did hear the state police talking about a "man with a gun" at the rally. Perhaps Salem isn't as danerous for OCers as we in Southern Oregon percieve them to be and they've just gotten stuck with a piece of Portlands bad rap.
 

SlackwareRobert

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I don't fear the police, I don't mind the police, 90% time I would assist the police.
I loath the police leadership, alphabet soups, and those aspiring to those positions.
It is the political hacks at the top, and special acronyms that cause and are the
problem, not the guy on the beat except those that are trying to get to that top tear.
Well I now add the racist ones I am prone to run across.:X
But not enough of them to warrant moving to an anti state up north.
If VA ever gives blanket amnesty I would consider moving back.:cool:

Never been arrested when I was guilty, so couldn't say on that one.

Thanks to spousal privilege I wasn't worried a bit on a NCIS check,
although my wife was floored I passed. She was sure they had something on me.
They do but don't know where to look. :what:

I feel so sorry for today's generation, they are tagged from birth and can't
escape the mark of the beast that tracks them everywhere.
 

Teddybearfrmhell

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MK wrote:
I know you stated that you only care for Oregon residents' opinion so please ignore mine if you wish but as an advocate of open carry I'd still like to comment.

I think one of the reasons as to why some open carriers feel angst towards the police is becuase the officers are the ones that are confronting some carriers in regards to their rights to bear arms. If people feel disrespected or that their rights are being trampled upon and are otherwise law abidingcitizens then they may choose to focus on that issue. It is a somewhat common occurance amongst open carriers to have to deal with police so its not unreasonable to expect topics of discussion relating to these issues and a little bit of animosity voicedwhen they see others alike to them being treated wrongly.
i do not fear the police until they show up on my doorstep to take away my guns..... i go from patriot to rebel with that one knock.

In this case, you will be a rebel with a slingshot or a dead rebel that waited until the last moment to fight and protect his right to bear arms.

It would probably be more helpful to get involved when its your neighbor whose losing his firearms or the people in the state next toyours or once the gun confiscationpaper leaves someone's desk and is about to be set into motion in the streets.

If people sit back and wait until its them who are personally affronted its usually too late.

I really don't think the government is going to just ban allguns one day. If it were to be doneit will be done systematically and piecemeal to help not raise complete alarm. They will take one item at a time and then that way many people will sit back and let ithappen since it isn't them who will be directly affected. Many people don't seem to care what happens to the "other guy" if they don't also feel threatened by the action. Once a few "other guys" are taken care of, then they will move on to the next set of "other guys". That's the only way it could ever happen and even still, it would be a tough sell because there are too many people who value all of their freedoms instead of just the one or two that suits them best.

If bereaucrats one day told their law enforcement agents to go round up all the guns, I assume those agents would tell them to stick it where the sun doesn't shine. That would be an incredibly dangerous job and one I doubt that many of them would agree with in the first place.

I am not afraid of the police taking all of our guns away but I am a little worried at them taking someone's guns away. Chances are that no one is going to stick their neck out to help that "one guy" who gets crapped upon.

as for you not being an oregon resident, i shall not take your comments into account, i am sure i would consider what you have to say in another thread, but not this thread....

as for the sling shot comment...... the type , number and location of my gun or guns or arsenal are known to me alone, and they will have a hard time leaving me with just a slingshot..... as far as that goes, if lowes or home depot is open, i can make a gun to get another gun with.....

but anyway, thanks for ignoring my basic premise in this thread, OREGON residents.... :cuss:
 

Citizen

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What is the old joke? Something like:

Q: "What is the purpose of public opinion polls?"

A: "To see if the propaganda is working."

I think there is a bit of an error in the poll. The surveyor does not attempt to determine the depth of the respondents' knowledge or research into the dark side ofpresent-day policing.

Also, I think there is a bit of bias underlying thepoll. HellTeddy was recently in an argument on one of the threads* on the coffee shop manager who ejected a police officer. HellTeddy seems to still be stuck in that previous argument, since he is still on the same subject: anti-cop forum members (his words for a few of the other thread posters).

Perhaps by this poll he is still trying to have that argument, but is headed in another direction by "documenting" support for himself.

Perhaps he is just trying to find out whether the Oregon forum is "anti-cop", which wouldmean he has already generalizedagainst the rest of the Oregon forum based on thefact-based and logic-based writingsof a fewparticipants in the previous thread. (If he had not already generalized the few onto the rest of the Oregon forum, he wouldn't need to ask, would he?) We'll have to wait and see, I guess.

In that previous threadHellTeddy even remarked about leaving "[this anti-cop forum]".

He also said early in the argument that he is not particularly pro-cop, but that he is opposed to generalizing the faults of some cops onto one cop. But, he spent a good bit of emotional effort on calling me and perhaps one or two others cop-bashers when there wasn't any cop-bashing occurring. Seems like a lota pro-cop attitude underlying. Note that he did not attack the generalization on the basis of logic like, say, Doug Huffman, might. HellTeddy got bent out of shape about "anti-cop" (his words)sentiment and quit that thread (top of page three), accusing me of posting solely to bash cops despite the obvious express and implied purpose of giving reasons the manager might not want a cop in his store.

The very title of HellTeddy'spoll says a lot. He uses the word "anti-cop". Not "pro-Liberty", not "pro-rights", not "pro-4th Amendment". No. He chose the words "anti-cop."



* http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum45/45406-1.html
 

Teddybearfrmhell

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as for you injecting yourself into this non scientific poll and thread, i shall not comment on your posts and since i already know how you polled, i shall reduce the negatives by one.....

go bait someone else
 
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