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Alarmed, with good reason! Senator Green's Senate Bill 442 criminalizes Open Carry

OC4me

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Jan 14, 2009
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Northwest Kent County, Michigan
Ok, so I've dived into Senator Green's bill and it is a horribly written piece of legislation. I've just gotten off the phone with Senator Green's office and it doesn't appear that he is going to back down. I'll mention some of the negative highlights here as well as provide Senator Green's contact information below. Please call and make your voice heard. The staffer working on SB44 is named Nick and he will take the time to listen to your concerns. However, despite his patience, I got the impression that they are still planning to criminalize the exercise of your Constitutional right to open carry, not just in Schools, but in ALL pistol-free zones!


Tell Senator Green to pass a clean bill eliminating pistol-free zones entirely! We are not willing to trade one right for a privilege. But SB 442 is worse than that. The devil is truly in the details and here is a frightening legal analysis:

http://www.miopencarry.org/news/2015/10/Case-Against-SB442-A-Dangerous-Sloppy-Mess

Mailing Address:
Senator Mike Green
P.O. Box 30036
Lansing, MI 48909-7536

By Phone (ask for Nick)
(517) 373-1777 or toll free at (866) 305-2131

By Fax:
(517) 373-5871

By Email:
http://www.statesenatormikegreen.com/contact-me/
 

Grapeshot

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Smoke, mirrors, and hanging ropes too.

Have no doubt but that Green knows exactly what he is trying to do.
 

DeSchaine

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Joined
Nov 5, 2013
Messages
537
Location
Kalamazoo, MI
If I'm reading this thing right, it just criminalizes carrying a gun into a GFZ. It looks to me like they are amending the law to say you can't open carry there at all, and can only conceal with a special exemption. But it doesn't repeal the part about not being able to carry concealed in those areas.

Either that or my brain just hurts from trying to decipher all that legalese BS.
 

DeSchaine

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Messages
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Location
Kalamazoo, MI
http://www.mlive.com/lansing-news/i...d_guns_in_schools_bill.html#incart_river_home

Here's a bit about it on MLive. I've sent Mlive a note about my annoyance with LAC's carrying being lumped in with the criminal students that bring guns into school.

I find it totally incomprehensible that these moronic politicians think that people hiding their weapons is better than faculty and staff knowing that there is an armed person on site. As a father of an elementary age child, I actually would rather have people OC'ing in schools as opposed to CC'ing.

Contact your reps and tell them to stop this bill.
 

jeffrey-r

Regular Member
Joined
May 21, 2013
Messages
110
Location
Warren, MI
"My constituents are very upset about open carry in schools and when I talked to them about this switching open carry for concealed carry by people who are licensed and trained they really liked the idea," Jones said.

I'm going to guess that he didn't inform his constituents that the people open carrying are ALSO licensed with CPLs?
 

Grapeshot

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--snipped--
I'm going to guess that he didn't inform his constituents that the people open carrying are ALSO licensed with CPLs?
Note true. I'm going to guess that you are confusing license to purchase with having a concealed pistol license.

Open Carry in Michigan w/out a CPL
:
A person without a CPL can legally open carry a pistol as long as the pistol they are carrying has been lawfully purchased in accordance with MCL 28.422 and is registered in their name and they are at least 18 years of age. Without a CPL you may NOT carry a firearm that belongs to and is registered to someone other than yourself.

MCL 28.422(1) states that “except as otherwise provided in this act, a person shall not purchase, carry, possess, or transport a pistol in this state without first having obtained a license for the pistol as prescribed in this section.”

As the above cited law states a person may not carry or possess a firearm without obtaining it in accordance with that particular law. Therefore if you have obtained a firearm in accordance with MCL 28.422 by receiving a permit to purchase or by purchasing a firearm from a Federal Firearms Licensed dealer as the law dictates then you may lawfully open carry that pistol.

http://www.michiganopencarry.org/ocinfo/nocpl
 

1245A Defender

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Jul 7, 2009
Messages
4,362
Location
north mason county, Washington, USA
Well,,,

since i think jeffery-r is talking about the official that is talking about,, OCing in a School.
. He is quite right!


the many GFZs do not apply to CPL holders..
the CPL has a list of GFZs where a CPL holder may NOT conceal!
therefor,,,, a CPL holder may OC in many of those places, including schools!

simple holders of pistol purchase permits can Not carry in those places!
 
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Grapeshot

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I will defer to the locals on the subect, particularly since my boots are not on the ground there.
 

FreeInAZ

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Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
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Secret Bunker
Alarmed, with good reason! Senator Green's Senate Bill 442 criminalizes Open...

Thanks from MILLIONS of lawful carriers to Senator Green...:NOT! This bill as written, will definitely make our decisions on visiting MI easier. We will avoid it, when possible. If this bill (mess), is a indicator where MI is heading: in the wrong direction when it comes to laws that not only aide its population to better defend themselves against violence, it makes it worse for tourists. :(
 
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FreeInAZ

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Alarmed, with good reason! Senator Green's Senate Bill 442 criminalizes Open...

Ah pure MI .... Politics!!!
:mad:
 
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fozzy71

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
931
Location
Roseville, Michigan, USA
Thanks from MILLIONS of lawful carriers to Senator Green...:NOT! This bill as written, will definitely make our decisions on visiting MI to easier. We will avoid it when possible. If this bill (mess), is a indicator where MI is heading: in the wrong direction when it comes to laws that not only aide its population to better defend themselves against violence, it makes it worse for tourists. :(
Agreed with all, especially the bold.... I rarely have reason to go in those PFZ but I OC 99%+ of the time and if this does pass I will be looking to move south if I can afford it, possibly all the way down to that haven you call home now.
 

FreeInAZ

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Alarmed, with good reason! Senator Green's Senate Bill 442 criminalizes Open...

An after thought for the Senator: why when many states are moving towards less restrictive gun laws, would you think this bill is a good idea for MI? Are its "fictional" gun free zones overflowing with murders that OPEN CARRY? I must have missed that on the news???

PS - this guy sits on the board of directors of a gun group? Man! With friends like that....
 
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Grapeshot

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An after thought for the Senator: why when many states are moving towards less restrictive gun laws, would you think this bill is a good idea for MI? Are its "fictional" gun free zones overflowing with murders that OPEN CARRY? I must have missed that on the news???

PS - this guy sits on the board of directors of a gun group? Man! With friends like that....
"Legislatively, with CPL Reform now signed into law, we’ve moved on to tackling pistol free zones. Senator Green has introduced Senate Bill 442 which will provide a shall-issue general exemption for pistol free zones to all concealed pistol license holders. This is a huge step forward he hopes can be accomplished while Governor Snyder remains in office and which will eventually lead to the outright elimination of most pistol free zones. These shall-issue general exemptions do not compromise preemption, do not require any additional training, can be requested by any CPL holder, and will greatly expand the number of people carrying concealed in pistol free zones. There will be no additional cost to receive the exemption other than a $20 replacement fee for a concealed pistol license if the exemption is requested prior to your next CPL renewal."
http://mcrgo.org/executive-directors-message/

http://mcrgo.org/
 

FreeInAZ

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Alarmed, with good reason! Senator Green's Senate Bill 442 criminalizes Open...

^ that's rubbish! From what I'm being told by folks that know this bill (in its current form) and have reviewed it in great detail.
 
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FreeInAZ

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"My constituents are very upset about open carry in schools and when I talked to them about this switching open carry for concealed carry by people who are licensed and trained they really liked the idea," Jones said.

I'm going to guess that he didn't inform his constituents that the people open carrying are ALSO licensed with CPLs?
Of course not. It doesn't serve the agenda. :/
 

Grapeshot

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^ that's rubbish! From what I'm being told by folks that know this bill (in its current form) and have reviewed it in great detail.
Don't shoot the messenger. I didn't endorse or refute the "official" statement. Just reporting it for all to see.
 

DeSchaine

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Kalamazoo, MI
I will defer to the locals on the subect, particularly since my boots are not on the ground there.
To Expand on 1245A's response and to fully answer your inquiry, Grape, the way the current law reads here in MI actually PROHIBITS concealed carry in schools, and allows open carry by CPL holders because it says absolutely nothing about it. Hence the mass of legal fights around the state over it. The Anti's call it a loophole, I call it built in safeguards.

We don't need new laws. This bill needs to slapped down hard. There have only been a few school shootings in Michigan.

Feb 12, 1976 Murray-Wright High School, Detroit (5 wounded)
Feb 22, 1978 Everett High School (the shooter was a self proclaimed Nazi) Lansing (1 dead, 1 wounded)
Apr 20, 1984 Precious Blood School, Detroit (1 dead)
Oct 18, 1985 Murray-Wright, Detroit (6 wounded)
Apr 16, 1987 Murray-Wright, Detroit (1 dead, 2 wounded)
Dec 17, 1993 Chelsea High, Chelsea (faculty only involved, 1 dead, 2 wounded)
Feb 29, 2000 Buell Elementary School, Flint (1 dead)

There have been a couple at universities, and one drive by at a Detroit school, and one in Flint that I didn't list because they don't directly reflect on this subject.

What gets me is when you look at the cases. Not one (save possibly the Chelsea incident, not a lot of info on that) was committed by a CPL holding law abiding citizen. Another thing, all these shootings were committed in a time when the laws in Michigan were more stringent and it was harder to get a CPL. How many incidents of students bringing CONCEALED guns to school are there? Many more, I assure you, including one very recent one at my old HS. LAC's are the very least of their worries.
 

FreeInAZ

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Don't shoot the messenger. I didn't endorse or refute the "official" statement. Just reporting it for all to see.
Snark was aimed at the ridiculous statement made by him. Not aimed at you Grape. Sorry for not being clearer in that post. ;)
 

1245A Defender

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north mason county, Washington, USA
Wowwie!!!

the thread was started with an "official statement" by MOC, Michigan Open Carry...
it is their thread,,, and they really dont like this law!
then,,,,
an "official statement" by MCRGO, Michigan Committee of Responsible Gun Owners...
they really like this new law.

they are both in Michigan..
MCRGO is the old gun group,,, but they did not / do not support Open Carry as well as many wanted,,,
Sooo,
MOC splintered off,, to the betterment of ALL gun / 2A supporters of Michigan,
especially those of them, and all of us that may want to visit that support
the right of the people to keep and bear arms,, concealed or OPENLY!!

this proposed law is not good for Open Carry Anywhere,
its terms and restrictions are an affront
to any and all gun right supporters anywhere they may live!


AND,,, also MGO, Michigan Gun Owners are also against this law,, they dont like it!

now im a little confused about which group was first, second or third...
I wont even mention UFO, Unified Firearm Owners,,, it never caught on..
 
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