Alabama Senate passes watered down carry reform bill. SB-286

[ImZakMan]

Just a quick question or two.

Good morning. First time here. Not trying to start a fight or anything so forgive me if I sound insolent.

eye95, in one of your responses you stated that they should get rid of the GFSZ. Do you mean for OC? If so, I can definitely see your point as concealed carry already has the ability to carry in GFSZ.
http://alisondb.legislature.state.al.us/acas/codeofalabama/1975/13A-11-72.htm
- Items c and e - Allows for (licensed) concealed carry on school property as long as there is no "intent to do bodily harm"; although an amendment was offered by England it was voted down and so -72 is not touched by SB286.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922
- Item q.2.B.ii - Allows states to preempt GFSZ if carrier is licensed in state where school is located.

ADobbs1989, in post #50 you stated the "catch all" phrase where "any public building can post a guard, detectors, or turnstiles and effectively prohibit people from carrying there". The current version of SB286, to be voted on (for concurrance) today, reads as follows:
"Inside any building or facility to which access of unauthorized persons and prohibited articles is limited during normal hours of operation by the continuous posting of guards and the use of other security features, including, but not limited to, magnetometers, key cards, biometric screening devices, or turnstiles or other physical barriers."

I believe "AND" (guards and the use of other security features) is the key word there.

Again, forgive me if I sound insolent.

 

[eye95]

No. I mean get rid of GFSZ (federal law, not Alabama law) period. The 1000-foot radius is moronic. Ordinary city streets are now no-carry zones unless one has a permit from the State in which the school is located, and that State's permitting system meets federal standards. No permission slip should be required to carry in public spaces, including the streets in the immediate vicinity of the school.

Hell, I think it is foolish to restrict (even by requiring a permission slip--and I know of no schools in Alabama that allow carry with a permission slip) law-abiding faculty, staff, and parents from carrying IN the school, but that is another topic. The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. GFSZs create areas within which only the bad guys are willing to carry, knowing that their murder sprees will be wildly successful before armed response can arrive on the scene. Why was Sandy Hook possible? GFSZ!!

 

[Jonathon Sometimes]

I'm baaackk.

I heard about the legislation gaining momentum and possibly passing this session. So I came back to check that out and laugh at Jason Jones, aka Dianosis, who banned me from ALOC, the website, and the different FB groups for suggesting that ALOC hold elections. Jason Jones is the unelected "president". How incredibly sad.

Well. Glad the legislation has moved forward.

It'll be fun not worrying about being banned for speaking my mind on here and saying there should be elections in ALOC. Who's still around??

 

[ADobbs1989]

I heard about the legislation gaining momentum and possibly passing this session. So I came back to check that out and laugh at Jason Jones, aka Dianosis, who banned me from ALOC, the website, and the different FB groups for suggesting that ALOC hold elections. Jason Jones is the unelected "president". How incredibly sad.

Well. Glad the legislation has moved forward.

It'll be fun not worrying about being banned for speaking my mind on here and saying there should be elections in ALOC. Who's still around??

I'm pretty sure that MOST people have abandoned (or been banned) from ALOC. BamaCarry is probably the most prominent gun rights group who has been active in the process. There is also DefendAlabama who I am also a member of on facebook, but they don't really do all that much about legislation. The bill is CURRENTLY in a House/Senate committee, IF they agree to a compromise between the bills it will be sent for a straight up/down vote in both houses and if both pass it will be sent to the governor. We don't know what's going to come out of this committee, if anything at all.

 

[eye95]

Hey, Jonathon! Good to hear from you again. I try to share your experience as much as possible. We have a lot to learn from that incident, and I won't let it be forgotten.


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[FTG-05]

I heard about the legislation gaining momentum and possibly passing this session. So I came back to check that out and laugh at Jason Jones, aka Dianosis, who banned me from ALOC, the website, and the different FB groups for suggesting that ALOC hold elections. Jason Jones is the unelected "president". How incredibly sad.

Well. Glad the legislation has moved forward.

It'll be fun not worrying about being banned for speaking my mind on here and saying there should be elections in ALOC. Who's still around??

ALOC just decided to fully endorse SB286; however, I don't recall them asking me my thoughts or opinions; some others there think the same way - D doesn't seem to care as long as PD is running his mouth.

DA appears dead: I get on there occasionally, no activity to speak of. BC: I don't know where they went, I was a member one day, website disappeared another - appeared to me as another power play - don't know - couldn't care less.

I'm tired of the AL CC/OC/pro-gun fights and political BS. D, ALOC and especially PD aren't the answer, regardless of the question.

 

[ADobbs1989]

ALOC just decided to fully endorse SB286; however, I don't recall them asking me my thoughts or opinions; some others there think the same way - D doesn't seem to care as long as PD is running his mouth.

DA appears dead: I get on there occasionally, no activity to speak of. BC: I don't know where they went, I was a member one day, website disappeared another - appeared to me as another power play - don't know - couldn't care less.

I'm tired of the AL CC/OC/pro-gun fights and political BS. D, ALOC and especially PD aren't the answer, regardless of the question.

I would suggest you look up BamaCarry on facebook and join the group. Lot's of activity there, and I've only heard of them banning one person that I know of.

 

[FTG-05]

I would suggest you look up BamaCarry on facebook and join the group. Lot's of activity there, and I've only heard of them banning one person that I know of.

I don't do bookface. Nor that faggoty tweeter crap.

But more important than that, I'm fricking/forking/dog tired of the BS intra-state BSing of the various AL-OC sites: get it together or go home.

ALOC, D and/or PD aren't the answer!

 

[ADobbs1989]

I don't do bookface. Nor that faggoty tweeter crap.

But more important than that, I'm fricking/forking/dog tired of the BS intra-state BSing of the various AL-OC sites: get it together or go home.

ALOC, D and/or PD aren't the answer!

Well unfortunately facebook is where MOST of the conversations are held with BamaCarry. The forum is used some but not as much. I don't really know what's up with all the different sites but I do know that to be a member of ALOC you have to be a conformist to their "leaders" which means agreeing with their opinions and not questioning their guidance. Not really sure what DefendAlabama is...Eye seems to think it's the only grassroots group, but I never actually see anyone from DefendAlabama doing anything. Even their facebook page has minimal traffic. Not sure what D and/or PD is so I'll not comment on that.

 

[FTG-05]

Well then I guess I won't be on BC then either. PM me if you want to know what D and/or PD is.

And to keep this thread from getting locked, let's please return it to the issue at hand:

Did SB286 get actually passed yet? I know that HB9, the Homebrew Bill, was both passed and signed by the Governor yesterday; so things can happen quick if they want them to. :banana:

 

[ADobbs1989]

Well then I guess I won't be on BC then either. PM me if you want to know what D and/or PD is.

And to keep this thread from getting locked, let's please return it to the issue at hand:

Did SB286 get actually passed yet? I know that HB9, the Homebrew Bill, was both passed and signed by the Governor yesterday; so things can happen quick if they want them to. :banana:

286 was accepted out of committee last night. I don't think either house has voted on it yet. I think the Senate voted to accept the bill but I'm unclear on whether or not they have to actually vote for the bill to pass or not. The House says it can be expected to be seen on I think the 20th which is the last day of the session.

 

[herman48]

From what I understand, all the bill needs to become law now (besides the governor's signature) is the House's vote on the bill as revised by the Senate committee. Given the overwhelming majority that voted for this bill, I also believe it's veto-proof. But I could be mistaken on both counts.
I am not satisfied with the mixture of shall and may (Beason, if I am not mistaken, called it "shmay") which still gives the sheriffs too much latitude in denying CCW's. When I get to Alabama I'll get involved to have this law amended in the next legislative session and obtain that it conform to the "shall issue" norm as seen in the rest of the nation. I hope many Alabamans--including open carriers--will join in the effort. It seems to me, speaking of open carry, that the new law at least removes all doubts as to the legitimacy of OC, though I agree that there are too many places where both OC and CC are prohibited. It also seems to me that loaded handguns and long guns should be allowed in vehicle when visible. And that a hunting license or CCW should not be necessary for OC in a vehicle. I wonder why, in a southern state like Alabama where the "gun culture" is alive and kicking and anti-gun Democrats are a small, anemic minority there should be so many limitations to the carrying of guns. Alaska--where I have lived for 29 years, but that I'll be leaving in 20 days--is much more liberal (in the old sense of the word, before it became a euphemism for Marxist) with its carry laws, even in large cities like Anchorage. Could it be that there are too many RINO's among your Republicans?

 

[Jonathon Sometimes]

Same here.

I'm sick of the back and forth, blah blah, back and forth that has helped keep Alabama down. One site is up one minute and down another. Another bans everyone. Whatever, I moved to Georgia and joined Georgia Carry a few months ago, but my heart is still in Alabama.

I think that everyone retracing our lineage and coming back to OCDO is a great idea. Ya'll tell all the old timers and new timers alike to come back to OCDO and regroup for the time being.

The current legislation is definitely not ideal, and not even that good, compared to how we originally wrote it. But I think it's generally positive.

 

[JohnH]

Good to hear from you Jonathon. I'd wondered from time to time where you went. Yes the bill is not what it could have been, and I'd agree that all the infighting and banning that went on had a lot to do with that. There are not many active these days who would remember your encounter, and many who have no idea that it was you who put together the first bill on this some three years ago. I do remember, and still believe that a big thanks is owed you. Mr. Tulleys case has now been heard by the Criminal Court of Appeals. It will be interesting to see how they rule in light of this legislation coming to fruition at this time. Even if they strike down the old -13A-11-52, I'm not sure how such a ruling would impact the version in this bill. I OC over in Northwest Georgia all the time, no trouble. I hope this bill will make OC here in 'Bama more user friendly. Time will tell.

 

[JohnH]

Can't get the link to copy and past right, Google search "Alabama SB286 151232-12" This is the final version which passed out of the conference committee and is scheduled for vote in the house on 5/20/13. There are no more amendments at this time. If it passes in the house, it goes to the governor to be signed.

 

[herman48]

Can't get the link to copy and past right, Google search "Alabama SB286 151232-12" This is the final version which passed out of the conference committee and is scheduled for vote in the house on 5/20/13. There are no more amendments at this time. If it passes in the house, it goes to the governor to be signed.

Go to Google, and type "Alabama SB 286 151232-12" (hitting the space bar between SB and 286), and I think you'll find what you wanted.

 

[herman48]

Musings and reflections...

After I joined this section of the forum dealing with Alabama gun laws, I felt like someone who parachuted himself in occupied territory trying to contact the local resistance to help in the fight against the oppressors and found himself in the middle of a battle of different groups of freedom fighters fighting one another. I myself was shot at from a couple of directions. Folks, we should consider our similarities more than our differences. Our common enemy is very strong and poised to overwhelm us. If we do not hang together, we will most assuredly hang separately. It's not a matter of open carry versus concealed carry--it's a matter of not being able to carry anything at all anywhere besides the burden of supporting with our hard-earned money the very government that oppresses us and is determined to take away our God-given rights. I saw here negative comments about the NRA. OK, will the ACLU do a better job? Or the NAACP? Or the AARP? We can't (and I don't) agree 100% with what the NRA says and does, but the NRA is just about the only game in town, and a very effective one at that. Yes, there are other groups like SAF, NAGR and a couple of others, but the NRA is the major player. As to local issues, while we bicker amongst ourselves, we allowed the enemy--which in Alabama is weak, anemic, and struggling not to become extinct--to change the omnibus gun bill much for the worse. If it passes it will still be a victory, but we had a lobster on our plate that was snatched away by the sheriffs and other interest groups and replaced with a cheeseburger. Better than an empty plate (and we might still end up with an empty plate on May 20) but we could have done much better if we had shown more solidarity, if we had forgotten our differences and presented a united front.
Shall we try again next year, united by our common cause and without sniping at each other, to preserve whatever rights we still have and to regain the lost ground both at state and federal level? I am ready. Are you?

 

[eye95]

I will not assist in the fight to make carrying with a State permission slip easier. My goal is simple: To promote paperless carry in my home, in my business, in my car, on the public thoroughfares, in public buildings (except certain highly secure areas such as police armories), and in any private premises unless the owner or his agent say otherwise.

I have no problem supporting a bill that, in addition to promoting paperless carry, also promotes papered carry, but I will not support any bill that does not make paperless carry less encumbered. Period.

Go fight for your oxymoronic "right to be licensed." I won't help.


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<o>

 

[ADobbs1989]

After I joined this section of the forum dealing with Alabama gun laws, I felt like someone who parachuted himself in occupied territory trying to contact the local resistance to help in the fight against the oppressors and found himself in the middle of a battle of different groups of freedom fighters fighting one another. I myself was shot at from a couple of directions. Folks, we should consider our similarities more than our differences. Our common enemy is very strong and poised to overwhelm us. If we do not hang together, we will most assuredly hang separately. It's not a matter of open carry versus concealed carry--it's a matter of not being able to carry anything at all anywhere besides the burden of supporting with our hard-earned money the very government that oppresses us and is determined to take away our God-given rights. I saw here negative comments about the NRA. OK, will the ACLU do a better job? Or the NAACP? Or the AARP? We can't (and I don't) agree 100% with what the NRA says and does, but the NRA is just about the only game in town, and a very effective one at that. Yes, there are other groups like SAF, NAGR and a couple of others, but the NRA is the major player. As to local issues, while we bicker amongst ourselves, we allowed the enemy--which in Alabama is weak, anemic, and struggling not to become extinct--to change the omnibus gun bill much for the worse. If it passes it will still be a victory, but we had a lobster on our plate that was snatched away by the sheriffs and other interest groups and replaced with a cheeseburger. Better than an empty plate (and we might still end up with an empty plate on May 20) but we could have done much better if we had shown more solidarity, if we had forgotten our differences and presented a united front.
Shall we try again next year, united by our common cause and without sniping at each other, to preserve whatever rights we still have and to regain the lost ground both at state and federal level? I am ready. Are you?

The reason for all the NRA hate is because the NRA took over negotiations after the bill passed the Senate. They took credit for the bill and then effectively negotiated our rights directly down the drain. Not to mention they have played a key role in basically every anti-gun law we have in this country.

 

[herman48]

Idealism is great--too bad that it is almost always trumped by reality. I believe I've already said this, but we need to learn to play the salami game the way our opponents play it. I, too, would love to have the exercising of our rights not subjected to governmental permission, but is it possible at the present time? No. What is possible is instead a gradual approach. One slice at a time, until we get the whole salami which would be denied us if we tried to grab the whole thing. You have a problem with the NRA? Before the NRA, beginning with Marion Hammer in Florida, started working on concealed carry permits, in almost all the states one could not carry concealed, open or otherwise. Before the Heller case, orchestrated by the NRA, no one (except us oplophiles) recognized that the Second Amendment protects an individual right--the right of the people to keep and bear arms. The NRA had a role in anti-gun laws? Let's not be facetious. We are much better off today than we were after the Gun Control Act of '68--and the NRA has been instrumental in improving the situation. But the NRA is politically savvy and knows how to play the political game of compromise. If you want it all and want it right now you are not getting anything--not in today's world--unless you unleash and win an armed revolution. And even armed revolutions don't always give their leaders what they want. Ask Robespierre.
Anyway, fight your own battles, and I'll fight mine, as long as we keep in mind that the enemy is not the NRA or some other gun lobbies but liberal politicians, bureaucrats and ignorant sheeple, and that we'd better not shoot (figuratively) at each other, or yourselves in the foot by asking for the moon to be delivered to you yesterday. Too bad that you can't see that the ultimate goal we have is the same--though we differ in how to reach it. Peace, and... SOLIDARNOSC!!!!