erichonda30
Banned
imported post
Has any one had it happen?
what went wrong?
did you get hurt or hurt someone?
Has any one had it happen?
what went wrong?
did you get hurt or hurt someone?
There is no such thing as an accident with a key in the ignition or a round chambered, there is only negligence.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN "ACCIDENTAL DISCHARGE". THERE ARE NEGLIGENT DISCHARGES WHEN SOMEONE IS AT FAULT.
I'll grant your point about failure to maintain being negligence, however you are (deliberately?) overlooking one critical bit of data that I already posted:If you fail to properly maintain air pressure in your tires, and blow one out, is it an accident?, or is it negligence on your part to properly maintain your equipment?
Same applies to firearms. Can mechanical failure happen even when you properly maintain your firearm....yes it can. But the example you provided was not accidental, it was negligence.
It is the judgmental nature of responses that keep folks from posting their stories. The key to your story is that, despite a physical malfunction causing a--let's say--unexpected discharge, no serious damage was done and there were no injuries because you were using the safety between your ears redundantly, keeping the firearm pointed in a safe direction.Doug Huffman wrote:There is no such thing as an accident with a key in the ignition or a round chambered, there is only negligence.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN "ACCIDENTAL DISCHARGE". THERE ARE NEGLIGENT DISCHARGES WHEN SOMEONE IS AT FAULT.
Sorry.
You're wrong.
Mechanical failures DO happen through no fault of the operator. I would define such an occurrence as an accident.
Case in point with VIDEO PROOF.
True that!I spent my career directing the operation of small nuclear power plants in extreme conditions. There is no such thing as a mechanical accident, but only negligence in design, fabrication, operation, maintenance, something caused by human fault.
Not being judgmental at all.. just pointing out that a gun going off when it wasn't intended to go off is a result of human negligence.Judge away folks. You are not being helpful.
Good definitions.I agree with Phssthpok in that the story he linked is something that could be classified as an AD provided there were no earlier warning signs that should have been seen leading up to the malfunction.
My definitions:
ND: A discharge that occurs unintentionally due to the operator screwing up one way or another (improper maintenance is included in this category).
AD: A discharge that occurs unintentionally due to no fault of the operator who did everything a reasonable user would do to prevent such a discharge.
Mechanical objects can and do malfunction without warning, even with proper maintenance. As Marlborol said, most malfunctions we see with our firearms occur when firing them. Fortunately these are times when a discharge is generally intended, and in a safe environment for them. Those can happen without warning though, so it's not impossible for them to happen outside of this either.
I also agree with Eye95 in that autojudging everything to be an ND without considering mitigating circumstances is wrong, and detrimental. Or even judging people period. We all make mistakes, and we should be corrected for sure, especially when the stakes are as high as making a mistake with a firearm. But we also ought to hear stories of both ADs and NDs, so others may learn from the mistakes in the case of NDs, and how proper safety practices prevent injury when true ADs occur. Judgmental attitudes to not promote this.
Classifying every UD as an ND serves no useful purpose and is insulting to the person to whom the UD happens. I think the definitions above make a distinction that needs to be made. Using those definitions, an ND means the operator needs to change the way he handles his firearm. The danger from an AD should be mitigated by routine safe handling practices.eye95 wrote:Not being judgmental at all.. just pointing out that a gun going off when it wasn't intended to go off is a result of human negligence.Judge away folks. You are not being helpful.
If the gun is an unsafe design even before the first prototype is made then the designer was negligent with his design.
If the design is safe but the manufacturer uses substandard materials then the manufacturer was negligent.
If the manufacturer used quality materials but substandard quality control in assembly then the manufacturer was negligent.
If the shipper allowed damage to occur during shipping then the shipper and/or packer was negligent.
If the seller didn't exercise due diligence in storing and handling before the sale and caused damage then the seller was negligent.
If the new owner didn't exercise due diligence in storing and handling plus keeping the gun maintained/inspected for wear then the new owner was negligent.
If the new owner didn't follow safety rules while handling the gun then the new owner was negligent.
........... You see... I'm not being judgmental about anyone who has experienced a ND... I am simply explaining that if the gun goes bang unexpectedly someone.. somewhere... was negligent in some manner. And it isn't always the person holding the gun at the time of the ND.
I know there are many fans of carrying with a loaded chamber..
but for this very reason- accidental discharge- I literally never chamber a round unless I'm pulling the trigger.
Am I wrong or isn't that the simplest way to avoid an accidental discharge?