• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

A thank you to the longtime OCers in Maine!

Marcus92183

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
68
Location
saco, Maine, United States
Someone who is "pro gun", but wants to restrict the rights of gun owners in any capacity is contradicting, and closer to being an anti than anything else.
ok playing devil's advocate a bit here.. it is not your right to do anything on private property it is up to the property owner to decide those things you have the right to decide if you want to enter that property and follow the rules.

call it good business practice, think about it there are people who don't understand guns and the people who enjoy them and see the need to carry them and that is fine. the majority of the shoppers in that store would be uncomfortable to a certain point seeing a gun in public. (whether or not that discomfort is unjust is not the point) so those shoppers might choose to shop in a different place or place complaints. majority rules in retail sales.

in the logic above you would give up your career and unlikely but possibly lose the ability to provide food shelter and other needed things for your family to please a few people who want/need to open carry for whatever reason that is. (i enjoy open carry also but i cc when it makes more sense) open carriers are not the majority by a long shot in this state or even country.
the policy was adopted after an incident. much like alot of legislation that is occurring nationally and locally. one bill still being debated on the state level was created because of a member on this forum who really in poor taste and timing open carried a long gun in Portland, he may have been the straw that broke the camels back for open carry in this state.
 

MainelyGlock

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2012
Messages
615
Location
Portland, ME
ok playing devil's advocate a bit here.. it is not your right to do anything on private property it is up to the property owner to decide those things you have the right to decide if you want to enter that property and follow the rules.

call it good business practice, think about it there are people who don't understand guns and the people who enjoy them and see the need to carry them and that is fine. the majority of the shoppers in that store would be uncomfortable to a certain point seeing a gun in public. (whether or not that discomfort is unjust is not the point) so those shoppers might choose to shop in a different place or place complaints. majority rules in retail sales.

in the logic above you would give up your career and unlikely but possibly lose the ability to provide food shelter and other needed things for your family to please a few people who want/need to open carry for whatever reason that is. (i enjoy open carry also but i cc when it makes more sense) open carriers are not the majority by a long shot in this state or even country.
the policy was adopted after an incident. much like alot of legislation that is occurring nationally and locally. one bill still being debated on the state level was created because of a member on this forum who really in poor taste and timing open carried a long gun in Portland, he may have been the straw that broke the camels back for open carry in this state.
Restricting rights is good business practice? Preventing a large demographic from spending money at your store is good business practice?

How do you know the majority of people there "don't understand guns"? We're in MAINE, where more than half of the states population has reported having a gun in their household. You must not be from here. If anything, I'd say the majority of people don't even notice it's there. It's more that one person points it out, and freaks out, and the anti-gun manager swoops in and boots them.

That third paragraph is really overdramatic. He allegedly has the ability to set store policy. Do you really think the vast majority of people that shop there will boycott Wal-Mart if he lets LAW ABIDING GUN CARRYING citizens in there to spend money, causing him to "give up his career and lose the ability to provide food shelter and other needed things for his family"?

Let's hear about this traumatizing incident that occurred that caused a gun-loving Wal-Mart manager to do a complete 180 and become an anti.
 

Marcus92183

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
68
Location
saco, Maine, United States
Restricting rights is good business practice? Preventing a large demographic from spending money at your store is good business practice?

How do you know the majority of people there "don't understand guns"? We're in MAINE, where more than half of the states population has reported having a gun in their household. You must not be from here. If anything, I'd say the majority of people don't even notice it's there. It's more that one person points it out, and freaks out, and the anti-gun manager swoops in and boots them.

That third paragraph is really overdramatic. He allegedly has the ability to set store policy. Do you really think the vast majority of people that shop there will boycott Wal-Mart if he lets LAW ABIDING GUN CARRYING citizens in there to spend money, causing him to "give up his career and lose the ability to provide food shelter and other needed things for his family"?

Let's hear about this traumatizing incident that occurred that caused a gun-loving Wal-Mart manager to do a complete 180 and become an anti.
obviously you dont realize how not all "gun lovers" are supportive of open carry. there are alot of Maine gun/outdoors lovers who dont even own handguns or support open or concealed carry for defense. and many concealed carriers that dont support open carry. as i said that was exaggerated, and yes his/her career is tied to his performance for example justified complaints, loss of sales. and it isnt about generalized "guns" it is about walking around in everyday life with a gun visible to everyone. if you think the majority of people in this state think its normal to see exposed guns in everyday activity you are delusional. ask 100 random people that you see on the street in a random place if seeing a stranger with a gun gives them an uneasy feeling or makes them uncomfortable at all im willing to bet atleast 75% would have those feelings. i enjoy open carry and it has sparked numerous conversations and some are just curious and after talking can become supporters, but the guys who are hostile and defensive just because "it's my right" and cause a scene hurt us more than help us. if they don't want you there say ok ill take my business elsewhere and leave. some people put on blinders and all they care about is GUN rights, don't you care about other freedoms? he made the choice to prohibit open carry in his store that is his right to do so respect it and shop somewhere else or cover it up. and i didnt claim it was traumatic but all it takes is a few complaints from customers and it makes huge differences. our voices are very powerful a few complaints has alot of power whether it is to a company or legislator ask anyone with any real management or political experience.

if your available tomorrow id be willing to place a gentleman's bet and walk around Portland and ask 100 people with you and see how it turns out chances are we will have police contact as well
 
Last edited:

SPOProds

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
464
Location
Orono, ME
obviously you dont realize how not all "gun lovers" are supportive of open carry. there are alot of Maine gun/outdoors lovers who dont even own handguns or support open or concealed carry for defense. and many concealed carriers that dont support open carry. as i said that was exaggerated, and yes his/her career is tied to his performance for example justified complaints, loss of sales. and it isnt about generalized "guns" it is about walking around in everyday life with a gun visible to everyone. if you think the majority of people in this state think its normal to see exposed guns in everyday activity you are delusional. ask 100 random people that you see on the street in a random place if seeing a stranger with a gun gives them an uneasy feeling or makes them uncomfortable at all im willing to bet atleast 75% would have those feelings. i enjoy open carry and it has sparked numerous conversations and some are just curious and after talking can become supporters, but the guys who are hostile and defensive just because "it's my right" and cause a scene hurt us more than help us. if they don't want you there say ok ill take my business elsewhere and leave. some people put on blinders and all they care about is GUN rights, don't you care about other freedoms? he made the choice to prohibit open carry in his store that is his right to do so respect it and shop somewhere else or cover it up. and i didnt claim it was traumatic but all it takes is a few complaints from customers and it makes huge differences. our voices are very powerful a few complaints has alot of power whether it is to a company or legislator ask anyone with any real management or political experience.

if your available tomorrow id be willing to place a gentleman's bet and walk around Portland and ask 100 people with you and see how it turns out chances are we will have police contact as well
Why pick Portland? The most liberal city in the state?

Sent from the back of a black van
 

Marcus92183

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
68
Location
saco, Maine, United States
Why pick Portland? The most liberal city in the state?

Sent from the back of a black van
wouldn't matter that was just his city. i find it funny that you guys act like i am against you i am just pointing out how the current society views things, mostly because they are misled my media and unwarranted fear
 

SPOProds

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
464
Location
Orono, ME
wouldn't matter that was just his city. i find it funny that you guys act like i am against you i am just pointing out how the current society views things, mostly because they are misled my media and unwarranted fear
Did i say i disagreed? I asked a simple, neutral question.

I will say however, anyone "progun" advocate that advocates being the sheep and not the wolf is an anti. This may or may not pertain to you.

Sent from the back of a black van
 
Last edited:

boyscout399

Regular Member
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
905
Location
Lyman, Maine
obviously you dont realize how not all "gun lovers" are supportive of open carry. there are alot of Maine gun/outdoors lovers who dont even own handguns or support open or concealed carry for defense. and many concealed carriers that dont support open carry. as i said that was exaggerated, and yes his/her career is tied to his performance for example justified complaints, loss of sales. and it isnt about generalized "guns" it is about walking around in everyday life with a gun visible to everyone. if you think the majority of people in this state think its normal to see exposed guns in everyday activity you are delusional. ask 100 random people that you see on the street in a random place if seeing a stranger with a gun gives them an uneasy feeling or makes them uncomfortable at all im willing to bet atleast 75% would have those feelings. i enjoy open carry and it has sparked numerous conversations and some are just curious and after talking can become supporters, but the guys who are hostile and defensive just because "it's my right" and cause a scene hurt us more than help us. if they don't want you there say ok ill take my business elsewhere and leave. some people put on blinders and all they care about is GUN rights, don't you care about other freedoms? he made the choice to prohibit open carry in his store that is his right to do so respect it and shop somewhere else or cover it up. and i didnt claim it was traumatic but all it takes is a few complaints from customers and it makes huge differences. our voices are very powerful a few complaints has alot of power whether it is to a company or legislator ask anyone with any real management or political experience.

if your available tomorrow id be willing to place a gentleman's bet and walk around Portland and ask 100 people with you and see how it turns out chances are we will have police contact as well
I've spent a LOT of time walking in Portland with a gun and I've had several interactions with the PD, but it's still like 1 in 100 walks in Portland results in police contact.
 

MainelyGlock

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2012
Messages
615
Location
Portland, ME
obviously you dont realize how not all "gun lovers" are supportive of open carry. there are alot of Maine gun/outdoors lovers who dont even own handguns or support open or concealed carry for defense. and many concealed carriers that dont support open carry. as i said that was exaggerated, and yes his/her career is tied to his performance for example justified complaints, loss of sales. and it isnt about generalized "guns" it is about walking around in everyday life with a gun visible to everyone. if you think the majority of people in this state think its normal to see exposed guns in everyday activity you are delusional. ask 100 random people that you see on the street in a random place if seeing a stranger with a gun gives them an uneasy feeling or makes them uncomfortable at all im willing to bet atleast 75% would have those feelings. i enjoy open carry and it has sparked numerous conversations and some are just curious and after talking can become supporters, but the guys who are hostile and defensive just because "it's my right" and cause a scene hurt us more than help us. if they don't want you there say ok ill take my business elsewhere and leave. some people put on blinders and all they care about is GUN rights, don't you care about other freedoms? he made the choice to prohibit open carry in his store that is his right to do so respect it and shop somewhere else or cover it up. and i didnt claim it was traumatic but all it takes is a few complaints from customers and it makes huge differences. our voices are very powerful a few complaints has alot of power whether it is to a company or legislator ask anyone with any real management or political experience.

if your available tomorrow id be willing to place a gentleman's bet and walk around Portland and ask 100 people with you and see how it turns out chances are we will have police contact as well
Oh no, I'm well aware that there are some gun-lovers who are not a fan of open-carry. A lot of big names in the industry aren't either, like Rob Pincus. What you seem to be struggling to grasp is that it's ridiculous to only want to support a certain part of our rights. That goes for any rights. You want to be able to own firearms, yet you support people being kicked out of stores for having one holstered? That's hypocritical, and anti-gun. Once you start picking and choosing which aspects of the second amendment you want to support and make legal, it's all downhill from there. Everything or nothing, to put it in simple terms. Non-negotiable.

I never once said that "the majority of people in this state think its normal to see exposed guns in everyday activity". If you're having trouble coming up with a valid argument that's one thing, but there's no need to put words in my mouth. I said that I doubt the majority of people even notice that a handgun is/was there, and there's evidence to support that. Like the fact that I, and many others, walk around open carrying a handgun and very few people point it out, or ask questions, or call the police. In my two-ish years of open carrying, I've had ONE incident with the police. And that had nothing to do with a "concerned citizen" phoning in a police.

So, out of roughly 730 days that I've open carried, I had one where it resulted in any type of problem.

As per the bet you're talking about, what are we asking these 100 people? If you're thinking of going around and having me point to my firearm and then ask people if it makes them uncomfortable, then no, I will not be doing that. Especially not in Portland, the most liberal city in the state, with the most anti-gun police department. That's what's called negative attention, and I have no desire to seek it.
 

boyscout399

Regular Member
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
905
Location
Lyman, Maine
one bill still being debated on the state level was created because of a member on this forum who really in poor taste and timing open carried a long gun in Portland, he may have been the straw that broke the camels back for open carry in this state.
If you can't exercise a right because it will offend someone, and they will then ban it, then does the right to do it really exist?

You have a right to drink water, but if you drink water, we will ban drinking water. Do you see the fallacy of your logic?
 

Marcus92183

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
68
Location
saco, Maine, United States
i didnt say i only care about some gun rights but these rights are not unlimited.. and unreasonable actions will add limits to your rights. to say you support
no gun control would be insane that would allow any criminal or mentally unstable person to gain access to guns

you obviously only care about gun rights.. what about property owners rights? btw i know he doesn't own the walmart but he is in charge of it

talk about exaggeration pointing guns at people yeah that sounds like a great idea. yes i agree it will go unnoticed most times.

and i meant we would probably end up making someone uncomfortable by asking the wrong guy questions about guns. and that would lead to contact
 

RLTW!

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2012
Messages
13
Location
Portland
i didnt say i only care about some gun rights but these rights are not unlimited.. and unreasonable actions will add limits to your rights. to say you support
no gun control would be insane that would allow any criminal or mentally unstable person to gain access to guns
Watch out for that slippery slope.
 

boyscout399

Regular Member
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
905
Location
Lyman, Maine
i didnt say i only care about some gun rights but these rights are not unlimited.. and unreasonable actions will add limits to your rights.
You are categorizing a legal exercise of a right as "unreasonable actions"

Do you think that new laws should be formed to prohibit the burning of flags or the Westboro Baptist Church or do you think they should have the right to free speech no matter how deplorable that speech is?
 

MainelyGlock

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2012
Messages
615
Location
Portland, ME
i didnt say i only care about some gun rights but these rights are not unlimited.. and unreasonable actions will add limits to your rights. to say you support
no gun control would be insane that would allow any criminal or mentally unstable person to gain access to guns
You're correct, these rights aren't "unlimited". But why on earth would you seek to limit them even further, in any capacity? Or as a "gun-lover/owner", support that? Do you see why that doesn't make sense? I don't know how to dumb it down any more than I already have.

Where did I say ANYTHING about allowing criminals to possess guns? There you go, fabricating statements again.

you obviously only care about gun rights.. what about property owners rights?
Oh yeah, Marcus? How is that obvious? Why would I be talking about property owners rights on a GUN-RELATED FORUM? To give you an example for yet another reason why you're wrong, I've spent hundreds of hours of my life working with Equality Maine during the voting seasons. Collecting signatures, making phone calls, door-to-doors, and driving people to the polls. Instead of making baseless assumptions, why don't you formulate these into questions and simply ask? You'll look less ignorant.

btw i know he doesn't own the walmart but he is in charge of it
By the way, that makes absolutely zero difference. But cool story.

talk about exaggeration pointing guns at people yeah that sounds like a great idea. yes i agree it will go unnoticed most times.
Dude, you skipped your reading comprehension class in high school, didn't you? Once again, you keep making. stuff. up. I said pointing TO my gun, not pointing my gun at people. What's wrong with you?


and i meant we would probably end up making someone uncomfortable by asking the wrong guy questions about guns. and that would lead to contact
Well, yeah. Especially here in Portland. But again, if you're aware that we'd probably end up talking to PPD prior to going out and asking people, then that's the exact same thing as the people on YouTube open carrying just to bait police officers. I don't agree with that tactic. In my opinion, the best way to normalize open carrying is NOT to go around verbally brandishing your firearm, but to just be an everyday, normal citizen. Because that's what we are, with or without the guns.

Don't go looking for a fight. That casts a negative light on the whole movement, and does nothing beneficial for us, or yourself.
 
Last edited:

Marcus92183

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
68
Location
saco, Maine, United States
Watch out for that slippery slope.
all i did was point out the politics of it i dont have the time to look up the quote atm but that incident with the AR15 in portland was the direct driver for the new proposal on redefining the bill on display of a threatening weapon, will it pass i dont know but these common sense needs to be applied once in awhile we need to ask ourselves is this going to benefit the cause or not.
and if he claims he didnt do that for attention that day i would be willing to bet he is not telling the truth
 

Marcus92183

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
68
Location
saco, Maine, United States
You're correct, these rights aren't "unlimited". But why on earth would you seek to limit them even further, in any capacity? Or as a "gun-lover/owner", support that? Do you see why that doesn't make sense? I don't know how to dumb it down any more than I already have.

Where did I say ANYTHING about allowing criminals to possess guns? There you go, fabricating statements again.



Oh yeah, Marcus? How is that obvious? Why would I be talking about property owners rights on a GUN-RELATED FORUM? To give you an example for yet another reason why you're wrong, I've spent hundreds of hours of my life working with Equality Maine during the voting seasons. Collecting signatures, making phone calls, door-to-doors, and driving people to the polls. Instead of making baseless assumptions, why don't you formulate these into questions and simply ask? You'll look less ignorant.



By the way, that makes absolutely zero difference. But cool story.



Dude, you skipped your reading comprehension class in high school, didn't you? Once again, you keep making. stuff. up. I said pointing TO my gun, not pointing my gun at people. What's wrong with you?




Well, yeah. Especially here in Portland. But again, if you're aware that we'd probably end up talking to PPD prior to going out and asking people, then that's the exact same thing as the people on YouTube open carrying just to bait police officers. I don't agree with that tactic. In my opinion, the best way to normalize open carrying is NOT to go around verbally brandishing your firearm, but to just be an everyday, normal citizen. Because that's what we are, with or without the guns.

Don't go looking for a fight. That casts a negative light on the whole movement, and does nothing beneficial for us, or yourself.
i already answered all of these questions you are just twisting them around. Maybe i read the line about pointing wrong. but you have reinforced and argued against nearly all of my points during this discussion. all i did was point out how other people view these things, be a little more open minded and look at the bigger picture. Btw lets keep it mature and don't go to personal attacks
 

MainelyGlock

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2012
Messages
615
Location
Portland, ME
i already answered all of these questions you are just twisting them around. Maybe i read the line about pointing wrong. but you have reinforced and argued against nearly all of my points during this discussion. all i did was point out how other people view these things, be a little more open minded and look at the bigger picture. Btw lets keep it mature and don't go to personal attacks
How am I twisting anything? You're the one that's been misquoting me on every post you made. Not sure if that's on purpose or not, but it's not a good habit to get into.

I have argued against all your points, because I find them, and the logic they are trying to support, to be faulty.

I consider myself to be very open-minded. In fact, probably more so than the majority of people on this forum. But there's no correlation between that, and surrendering any portion of my rights. Any of them.

Tell me, what's the bigger picture?
 

RLTW!

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2012
Messages
13
Location
Portland
all i did was point out the politics of it i dont have the time to look up the quote atm but that incident with the AR15 in portland was the direct driver for the new proposal on redefining the bill on display of a threatening weapon, will it pass i dont know but these common sense needs to be applied once in awhile we need to ask ourselves is this going to benefit the cause or not.
Let me get this straight..

You shouldn't exercise some rights because it might offend people, and if it offends people then someone will try to make it a crime; thus taking away that right.

Perhaps it would "benefit our cause" if we hold these politicians accountable for proposing legislation that infringes on our rights and does absolutely nothing to reduce gun violence. That seems like a better idea than blaming the law-abiding citizen.

and if he claims he didnt do that for attention that day i would be willing to bet he is not telling the truth

mon visage quand vous ne savez pas qui je suis
 

SPOProds

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
464
Location
Orono, ME
Boyscout was not looking for attention. That is the same argument the antis make about handgun OC.

Like i said if someone doesn't support all my rights to the fullest extent they are an anti.

Sent from the back of a black van
 

Marcus92183

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
68
Location
saco, Maine, United States
Boyscout was not looking for attention. That is the same argument the antis make about handgun OC.

Like i said if someone doesn't support all my rights to the fullest extent they are an anti.

Sent from the back of a black van
sorry but yes he was and that is fine as long as we use judgement as to time and place, you have to realize even if you can do something sometimes you shouldn't.
 

boyscout399

Regular Member
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
905
Location
Lyman, Maine
sorry but yes he was and that is fine as long as we use judgement as to time and place, you have to realize even if you can do something sometimes you shouldn't.
I'm sorry, but what actions of mine are you speaking of? It was not me that open carried a long gun in Portland. I've been open carrying daily for 5 years now and I have never done so for attention.
 
Top