• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

March on Washington 07-04-2013

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
But in your zeal to get at him you run the risk of harming so many other people. Is he really worth that to you.


(joking beyond this point!)



Are ya going to have him stuffed and mounted and hanging in your den or something? :lol:

I decided that this march was a horrible idea long before I knew who or what Kokesh was. He is not the reason that I hate this march. Finding out about him just confirmed my initial take. If he ends up in jail on the fourth, this march still happens, and the nicest guy in the world takes over lead, let's say JmE, I'll still be vehemently opposed to it as detrimental to the restoration of Liberty.

Whether I stuff and mount him depends solely on the number of points. I am pretty sure he has exactly two on the top of his head, one on his tail, and three on his trident. Is a six-pointer worth mounting?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>
 

Thundar

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2007
Messages
4,946
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
I decided that this march was a horrible idea long before I knew who or what Kokesh was. He is not the reason that I hate this march. Finding out about him just confirmed my initial take. If he ends up in jail on the fourth, this march still happens, and the nicest guy in the world takes over lead, let's say JmE, I'll still be vehemently opposed to it as detrimental to the restoration of Liberty.

Whether I stuff and mount him depends solely on the number of points. I am pretty sure he has exactly two on the top of his head, one on his tail, and three on his trident. Is a six-pointer worth mounting?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>

Funny but I agree with part of the statement and disagree with the rest. Imagine that.

If I follow your logic then we should not stand up for our rights because that may be detrimental to the restoration of liberty. So how do we restore liberty if we do not stand up? Do we lie down and take it? Yes of course. Offer no resistance to the statists, for they will respect you more and give you your freedom back when you do not resist.

I agree this march is a horrible idea. But I do not denegrate those that propose action to preserve our rights. What I have learned hanging around the open carry movement as it exploded in Virginia is that people in an activist community are going to do what they think is right. You can try and control the activist, but herding cats is a much simpler task.

I will not march, but then again I have always hated marching.

The irritang part of this thread is that some here go beyond not participating to bullying participants and potential participants. Unless you are a Ninja level cat herder this approach will not work.

Many proclaim that Kokesh is cuo-cuo for cocoa puffs for proposing to march on DC, but what is crazier exercising your rights when government oversteps their bounds or denegrating those that actively reject the yoke of .gov tyranny?
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
I am wondering how some still believe that this is the time for an armed march on the seat of government.

See how pointless rhetoric like that is?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>
 

Tucker6900

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
1,279
Location
Iowa, USA
No. Not correct. I am pointing to the government marching on us to take away our arms as one example of a WITCOHE moment, and specifically pointing out that our marching on them, instigating a response, is not.

Thank you for actually asking. Many here just imply that I said something other than what I did.


Fair enough. However, the real point of my post was to get your thoughts on the following:



How are those examples not one of your WITCOHE? Do you feel those things have are justified?
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Fair enough. However, the real point of my post was to get your thoughts on the following:

How are those examples not one of your WITCOHE? Do you feel those things have are justified?

Boston: They try that in Fairborn and I will lawfully resist. Shame on Bostonians for the Whimper Heard 'round the World.
Attempted AWB failed. The political process worked. It doesn't always, but it did this time.
DHS Ammo Buy: Elections have consequences. Obama won the power to run the government.
Freedom Lovers=Domestic Terrorists: I have monetarily supported citizens unlawfully prosecuted. This does not rise to the level of bringing down the whole government rather than trying to fix it.
VIPR: A definite infringement on rights. Again, this does not rise to the level of bringing down the whole government rather than trying to fix it.
Border Control Checkpoints: Isn't this one being fought in the courts, and aren't there some rulings already that the BP cannot stop folks this far into the country without PC? It is being worked. To believe that our nation of Liberty will not have any egregious flaws at all ever is a bit naive. Work the problems. Don't bring down the system.

Remember, history tells us that almost all revolutions result in far LESS Liberty! Our best shot, our LAST shot at Liberty on this planet lies with fixing what we have, not with tearing it down.

And, "make no mistake about it," Kokesh's stated goal is to bring it down.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>
 

Thundar

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2007
Messages
4,946
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
Remember, history tells us that almost all revolutions result in far LESS Liberty! Our best shot, our LAST shot at Liberty on this planet lies with fixing what we have, not with tearing it down.

And, "make no mistake about it," Kokesh's stated goal is to bring it down.

Kookesh is an activist and has made contradictory statements about the goal of his march.

Kookesh plays a multi layer game, but you only deal with the tactical level.

There is a very good argument to be made that .gov stopping of the march is the best outcome for liberty. Kookesh loses the marching game, but the denial of fundamental rights ultimately leads to a strategic level awakening and a strategic win for freedom.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Kookesh is an activist and has made contradictory statements about the goal of his march.

Kookesh plays a multi layer game, but you only deal with the tactical level.

There is a very good argument to be made that .gov stopping of the march is the best outcome for liberty. Kookesh loses the marching game, but the denial of fundamental rights ultimately leads to a strategic level awakening and a strategic win for freedom.

Could it be that Kokesh is using hyperbole, just like the person who has indicated he would like to shoot Kokesh in the back.
 

alanspfdmo

Regular Member
Joined
May 16, 2013
Messages
14
Location
St. Louis, Missouri
This video expresses a common sense approach to the situation. What do you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRgUEc9jBL4

You may have watched this video before, I thought it was relevant to this topic. Feel free to watch the entire video or you can jump to points made at 5:52 and 6:52 to see where I believe common sense prevails. Common sense, patience and persevering to change pubic perceptions along with current laws/legislation is often times the best strategy to bring about the desired change. You may have heard someone say, "It is better to give another the right of way than to be dead right." Wrong perceptions, even with the best of intentions may not bring about the desired end result, and could have the opposite effect. Being confrontational and making enemies with law enforcement and public officials certainly isn't the answer. At a time when 2nd amendment rights are making progress and the positive momentum is gaining, please don't become to zealous without thinking first. Proverbs 19:2

alanspfdmo
 

Thundar

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2007
Messages
4,946
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
Could it be that Kokesh is using hyperbole, just like the person who has indicated he would like to shoot Kokesh in the back.

Well of course that is possible.

In the end I try not to base my judgement on a subjective evaluation of motives. After all the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

What I try to do is instead evaluate based upon a constitutional framework.

Does Kookesh have a right to bear arms? check

Does Kookesh have a right to assemble? check

Does Kookesh have a right to air his grievences? check

Does Kookesh have a right to travel? check

So I don't like the idea. I hate marching and I think flashmobs with locked gun containers throughout the federal district would be far more effective at defeating .gov., but in the end I do not denounce Kookesh for planning to exercise his constitutional rights. Kookesh's actual goal for the event is irrelevant. That the right exists and he wishes to exercise that right is all the motive a citizen requires.
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Yes. Interesting read. I don't know what to make of it, not knowing whether it is real. I already have zero respect for the thug. This couldn't possibly decrease it if true.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>
 

joanie

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Messages
306
Location
..
Federalized Local Police Helped Arrest Adam Kokesh - May 22, 2013

Last Saturday’s marijuana legalization rally in Philadelphia, where radio host and political activist Adam Kokesh gave a keynote speech and was arrested, was possibly designated a potential terror event beforehand and attended by police specially trained to deal with terrorism. Judging by a red patch spotted on police jackets visible in footage of Kokesh’s arrest, members of the city’s federalized Homeland Security Bureau, trained to deal with “civil affairs” and “counter-terrorism operations,” appear to have been patrolling the event.

http://www.infowars.com/federalized-local-police-helped-arrest-adam-kokesh/

In at least two separate videos of the protest, numerous officers are seen wearing their normal blue and white uniforms outfitted with standard Philadelphia police patches. Other officers can also be seen, however, dressed in black jackets festooned with mysterious red patches that surround the traditional Philadelphia police emblem. This small, but important, detail may indicate Philadelphia’s Smoke Down Prohibition event was to be treated as a terror threat. Evidently marijuana legalization assemblies and other concentrated acts of civil disobedience and protest are now disturbingly being equated with terrorist activities.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4uAYp4nIrI

Since even before the events of 9/11, the globalist think tank known as the Rand Corporation had made its intent to federalize and militarize local and state police known. Calling for “the creation of a high-end police force,” known as a Stability Police Force, the Rand Corporation, in conjunction with the Department of Homeland Security, has been busy inserting special cadres of federal police officers in both state and city police departments, creating designated squads tasked to deal with, among other things, “a range of threats from insurgents to criminal organizations” and counter-terrorism operations. Alex Jones, an expert on the militarization and federalization of local and state police, has researched the subject for years and believes this to be the case.

While no information regarding what the red patch signifies can be located, the City of Pittsburgh’s Police Department does mention they have a specialty unit titled the “RED Team” prepared to deal with “certain critical incidents.” The fact that “insurgent” is a term usually used to describe armed rebellions in occupied nations, and not your common street drug dealer or gang member, should serve as a red flag signifying local law enforcement is already beginning to take on military police characteristics. Of course, the fact that Kokesh announced an armed, but peaceful, march on Washington DC earlier this month in defiance of the capitol’s firearms laws, set to take place on July 4, doesn’t help. However, if federalized police are attending a peaceful marijuana protest event and labeling it “terrorism,” it sets a startling precedent.
 

Gil223

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2012
Messages
1,392
Location
Weber County Utah

The thought crossed my mind a couple of days ago, that the banner than Kokesh carries could very well be a "false flag", and that he could be an agent provocateur of the government. The circumstances surrounding his non-arrest on the sidewalk in front of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, and his subsequent "disappearance" into the Philadelphia Federal Detention Facility shortly thereafter for some BS "assault charge", could be nothing more than the fog-machine of political theater. Will Act II have him freed... or is Kokesh never to be seen or heard of again? My money is on his release. Pax...
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
No. The point was clearly to equate what Kokesh is doing to what those historical figures did. There is no comparison.

Kokesh is a wackadoodle who, in his own words, admits that this action is an armed rebellion against our government and intended to overthrow it. Not even buying into this false-flag crap, he is a thug and a criminal, not a patriot. He does not deserve to be mentioned in the same post with those other men, except to highlight what he is NOT.
 

JmE

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
358
Location
, ,
I decided that this march was a horrible idea long before I knew who or what Kokesh was. He is not the reason that I hate this march. Finding out about him just confirmed my initial take. If he ends up in jail on the fourth, this march still happens, and the nicest guy in the world takes over lead, let's say JmE, I'll still be vehemently opposed to it as detrimental to the restoration of Liberty.
Thank you for the stealth compliment, my friend. :)

This last statement about being vehemently opposed to the march makes the most sense to me. I can now see that it isn't about the man. I understand your POV more even if I don't agree.

Remember that I was vehemently opposed to pushing for concealed carry licensing laws in Ohio. However, I did NOT publicly stand in the way of other patriots who, for one reason or another, felt it was prudent. I certainly wouldn't have joined forces with the government in armed opposition to them. I would never stand with the government in opposition to patriots under any circumstances. Although individuals joining together to fight for the restoration of Liberty in our Republic have come a ways from a few decades ago, I see that, IMHO, the movement still has much to learn about loyalty and priorities. I'm no longer confident that the RKBA movement has anyone's six.

On another note and in the interest of disclosure for the thread... I'm now 'officially' not attending the march. I was re-considering after seeing how there was such an interest in a protest denouncing the march and Kokesh. If patriots marched in opposition to other patriots then it would render the march on DC somewhat pointless and publicly reveal the most crippling weakness in the movement. In addition, yesterday evening my travel and lodging plans fell through so it seemed that the writing was on the wall, so to speak. Unfortunately, this means that I'll also need to re-consider my involvement with OC demonstrations in general. If open carriers can so readily turn on others interested in the restoration of Liberty then I'm not so sure how much of my own skin and reputation I may want to lend to future events. I'll certainly look at each future event with far more scrutiny and ask if it's worth the personal risk.

Through the 1990s I suggested OCing in Ohio to fellow patriots (many people carried concealed anyway, relying on a 'prudent man' defense). The response was consistently negative; "It's too dangerous", "We will be shot", "We'll end up with felonies", "It will bring about more gun laws", "FEMA camps", etc. As an alternative, I suggested empty holster carry. That tended to garner even more negative responses. Not long before Ohio passed its CC law these same patriots began expressing interest in Ohio having a concealed carry license system. I was opposed. For one, I felt that the tendency would be for many to embrace the privilege (CC) and fail to protect the right (OC) or even fight against others exercising the right. However, I felt that speaking out publicly against their CC law desires wasn't the right thing to do. So, my condemnation of a licensing system to carry remained in private. Now we have a group of people making a non-violent protest march on our nation's capitol. Some of the same arguments that have been used against us open carrying have been leveled against this march. Firearms are tools and possession of one does not automatically make one hostile nor their intentions such. The actions of law enforcement are their own responsibility. Likewise with our legislators. The sheeple will believe what the sheeple will believe; most of those beliefs will be provided by mainstream media and entertainment. There is an opportunity to get an answer to a question this July 4th; "Are we a free people?" It's a shame that so many people felt a need denounce this march. They didn't need to. They could've spoken their minds and given latitude to other liberty minded people. Instead, patriots, risking their lives and freedom for something they believe in, were met with the same sort of obstructionism that OCers have seen from fellow gun owners. :(

Whether I stuff and mount him depends solely on the number of points. I am pretty sure he has exactly two on the top of his head, one on his tail, and three on his trident. Is a six-pointer worth mounting?
Lol. Such a trophy would undoubtedly be a conversation starter. :D
 
Top