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OC at County-City building in Tacoma

massivedesign

massivedesign

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Joined
Oct 21, 2009
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865
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Olympia, Washington, USA
I just use the voice memo app (iphone 4), but have the phone JB'd and have a quick toggle on an SBSsettings drop menu.

I have the program to make it activate and start recording when you push both vol buttons at the same time (even in sleep), but it has issues...
 
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4

.45ACPaddy

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2009
Messages
999
Location
Lakewood, WA
Lowski said:
What was the obvious violation of RCW 9.41.290?

Granted their procedures may not be the best and no one wants a lecture, but he didn't tell you couldn't have your gun and he didn't try to arrest or ticket you for anything. Per RCW 9.41.300 your weapon needs to be stored, but it doesn't detail the procedures such as loading, unloading, time frame, etc...

I understand the whole process wasn't very customer friendly, but I am having a hard time understanding exactly which RCWs were violated.

RCW 9.41.290, State preemption.
"The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state, including the registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms, or any other element relating to firearms or parts thereof, including ammunition and reloader components. Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law. Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality."


From RCW 9.41.300, Weapons prohibited in certain places — Local laws and ordinances — Exceptions — Penalty.
"In addition, the local legislative authority shall provide either a stationary locked box sufficient in size for pistols and key to a weapon owner for weapon storage, or shall designate an official to receive weapons for safekeeping, during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building. The locked box or designated official shall be located within the same building used in connection with court proceedings. The local legislative authority shall be liable for any negligence causing damage to or loss of a weapon either placed in a locked box or left with an official during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building."
Click to expand...

The obvious violation would be putting up a rule that REQUIRES you to hand over ID and CPL when checking in a weapon. This is more restrictive and inconsistent with state law. I don't think it gets any more clear than that.
 
tombrewster421

tombrewster421

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Joined
May 25, 2010
Messages
1,326
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Roy, WA
massivedesign said:
I just use the voice memo app (iphone 4), but have the phone JB'd and have a quick toggle on an SBSsettings drop menu.

I have the program to make it activate and start recording when you push both vol buttons at the same time (even in sleep), but it has issues...
Click to expand...

You lost me there a little bit. Maybe you could PM me some instructions so we don't spam the thread.
 
BigDave

BigDave

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Yakima, Washington, USA
.45ACPaddy said:
The obvious violation would be putting up a rule that REQUIRES you to hand over ID and CPL when checking in a weapon. This is more restrictive and inconsistent with state law. I don't think it gets any more clear than that.
Click to expand...

Why not carry your ID and CPL if you have one? The whole issue of going sterile escapes me, you still are not required to show them except in a few occasions.
The issue of ensuring you get your weapon back even if the check tag was lost would be to ones benefit.

I am not implying someone else would have picked up your weapon but would give them pause in releasing your weapon to you until you could be identified.
 
gogodawgs

gogodawgs

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5,669
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Federal Way, Washington, USA
BigDave said:
Why not carry your ID and CPL if you have one? The whole issue of going sterile escapes me, you still are not required to show them except in a few occasions.
The issue of ensuring you get your weapon back even if the check tag was lost would be to ones benefit.

I am not implying someone else would have picked up your weapon but would give them pause in releasing your weapon to you until you could be identified.
Click to expand...

1st, Dave, I agree and carry with my ID/CPL and have gone through this building. They screen the entire building and not just the courthouse.

However, let's for a moment examine a real possibility.

A 5th grade teacher, female, 25 yo, 105lbs has a stalker. Not an ex or bf, but an aquaintenance she went to college with who is hung up on her. Her car/apartment was broken into and her ID is missing. Her father gives her a handgun for self defense and because she was brought up around them she is very familar with firearms. She understands open carry yet decides to go to the Pierce Co. building to apply for her CPL and file a restraining order with the court.

Now what, she has no ID and no CPL. Should she leave the gun in the car down the block and travel unarmed to the building even though she has the right to defend herself?

What about giving the firearm back unloaded and the magazine also unloaded and not letting you be able to defend yourself?

I have been to this building twice (with ID/CPL) and my experience tells me that this is a power play by the sheriff and county executive. It is meant to discourage gun owners from checking in their weapon.
 
BigDave

BigDave

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BigDave said:
Why not carry your ID and CPL if you have one? The whole issue of going sterile escapes me, you still are not required to show them except in a few occasions.
The issue of ensuring you get your weapon back even if the check tag was lost would be to ones benefit.

I am not implying someone else would have picked up your weapon but would give them pause in releasing your weapon to you until you could be identified.
Click to expand...

gogodawgs said:
1st, Dave, I agree and carry with my ID/CPL and have gone through this building. They screen the entire building and not just the courthouse.

However, let's for a moment examine a real possibility.

A 5th grade teacher, female, 25 yo, 105lbs has a stalker. Not an ex or bf, but an aquaintenance she went to college with who is hung up on her. Her car/apartment was broken into and her ID is missing. Her father gives her a handgun for self defense and because she was brought up around them she is very familar with firearms. She understands open carry yet decides to go to the Pierce Co. building to apply for her CPL and file a restraining order with the court.

Now what, she has no ID and no CPL. Should she leave the gun in the car down the block and travel unarmed to the building even though she has the right to defend herself?

What about giving the firearm back unloaded and the magazine also unloaded and not letting you be able to defend yourself?

I have been to this building twice (with ID/CPL) and my experience tells me that this is a power play by the sheriff and county executive. It is meant to discourage gun owners from checking in their weapon.
Click to expand...

I was not suggesting one must have ID or CPL to check the firearm, nor was I suggesting one should disarm themselves ahead of time.
If it was available then what is the issue.

As to not allowing him to rearm himself I call BS as well, there is no requirement by law to prohibit it and is no more dangerous the the officer handling and unloading the firearm.
In my opinion that was a request and he complied, there is an argument as to why he did not stand up for his rights other then he felt comfortable in not doing so.
 
L

Lowski

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
14
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
.45ACPaddy said:
The obvious violation would be putting up a rule that REQUIRES you to hand over ID and CPL when checking in a weapon. This is more restrictive and inconsistent with state law. I don't think it gets any more clear than that.
Click to expand...

According to your original post you were still able to check a weapon even though you didn't have your ID and CPL. The request for your ID and CPL may have been misinformed or improper by the officer, but the fact you were still able to check a weapon shows that RCW 9.41.290 was not violated. There is a difference between a request and a requirement. You knowing your rights shut the officer down and made him do the right thing.

A letter/complaint to the people in charge explaining how the process was lacking would be justified. Accusing them of violating preemption when you were able to walk in with a weapon, check a weapon and leave with a weapon without being detained, arrested, ticketed or having to provide documents doesn't seem like the most effective tactic.
 
D

devildoc5

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Jun 9, 2010
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791
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Somewhere over run with mud(s)
Lowski said:
According to your original post you were still able to check a weapon even though you didn't have your ID and CPL. The request for your ID and CPL may have been misinformed or improper by the officer, but the fact you were still able to check a weapon shows that RCW 9.41.290 was not violated. There is a difference between a request and a requirement. You knowing your rights shut the officer down and made him do the right thing.

A letter/complaint to the people in charge explaining how the process was lacking would be justified. Accusing them of violating preemption when you were able to walk in with a weapon, check a weapon and leave with a weapon without being detained, arrested, ticketed or having to provide documents doesn't seem like the most effective tactic.
Click to expand...

I disagree. HE was allowed to walk in with a weapon, check in a weapon, and leave with a pile of ammunition and a worthless chunk of metal. Thus leaving him unable to defend himself....
 
Tomas

Tomas

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Well, Navy, the last time I checked a pistol at Tacoma's County-City Building was for renewal of my CPL. I came in the door and when I was next up for the WTMD and was about to empty my pockets into a little tray, I told them I needed to check a firearm.

The security person called on their radio and a sheriff's deputy showed up in a few minutes as I stood to the side of the line, waiting.

The deputy had me sign on one line of a brown manila envelope then she initialed and dated the line, asked me for my firearm and put it - and my pocket knife - in the brown manila envelope. She took a large safety pin like clip with a number tag off the envelope and gave it to me. That was how I was to reclaim my stuff.

When I was through with the CPL renewal I went to the storage area counter, presented my tag, signed the "received" portion of the line I had signed earlier and was escorted to the exit then handed my weapon, magazine, and pocket knife out of the manila envelope.

I dropped the knife in my pocket, put the magazine in the gun, the gun in my holster, and left.

That was about four years ago.. Things have obviously changed, and not for the better.

Tom
 
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1245A Defender

1245A Defender

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Jul 7, 2009
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north mason county, Washington, USA
picture ID!!

print two,, one stays with the gun,, one stays with you..

005-2.jpg
 
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.45ACPaddy

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Oct 15, 2009
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In terms of someone else getting the firearm, that's the point of them giving you a card that you give back to claim your property, which probably has some unique number on it. At that point, I'd say it's the card holder's responsibility to keep track of it, just as any of us OCers would keep track of our carry pieces, ID, CPL, etc.

To clarify, I was NOT allowed to enter past the checkpoint. Reread the first post. I asked to check a weapon in, an officer came and disarmed me as he was about to explain the form, then when I said I didn't have my ID or CPL on me, he went and packaged my weapon and gave it back in a brown paper bag, unloaded, holstered, hammer cocked and safety OFF. I stood in the area between the two entrance doors the whole time.

Also, the reason I did comply with everything (except handing over ID and CPL) such as the officer disarming me was to see how they handle things. There are a few of us who have been curious as to how things are handled at the county city building regarding OC. When I went to Lakewood Municipal Court, they never asked for ID or CPL, even though I was CC at the time. They checked it in and give it back the same way they took it when I left.

On another side note, when I went to the county city building to get my CPL last year, they checked in my knife and never asked for ID or anything. They just gave me a card which I gave back to get my property. Why wouldn't it be the same with a carry piece?

Now we know how they handle things, now we gotta decide whether we want to press the issue.
 
L

Lowski

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Jan 2, 2009
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Seattle, Washington, USA
.45ACPaddy said:
To clarify, I was NOT allowed to enter past the checkpoint. Reread the first post. I asked to check a weapon in, an officer came and disarmed me as he was about to explain the form, then when I said I didn't have my ID or CPL on me, he went and packaged my weapon and gave it back in a brown paper bag, unloaded, holstered, hammer cocked and safety OFF. I stood in the area between the two entrance doors the whole time.
Click to expand...

Ok I see it now. I got thrown off by the 10 mintue wait portion. I thought that was when you came back to get you gun and they took forever bringing back in said paper bag. I assumed from that your gun was checked for some period of time. In reality the officer was somewhere messing with your gun for no good reason. Sorry for the confusion.
 
Bill Starks

Bill Starks

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I DO NOT have an issue with asking for ID.
I DO have an issue asking for a CPL.
I really DO have an issue with them unloading my weapon and not allowing a place to reload said weapon.
 
1245A Defender

1245A Defender

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north mason county, Washington, USA
so to recap...

you wanted to check in your gun, so you could enter the building.
the cop starts the process, takes your gun, asks for ID/CPL.
you dont have ID/CPL.
cop unloads gun and mag, puts it all in paper bags.
gives it all to you, does not allow check in or entry to building.

if this was the case.
not only did he violate RCW 9.41.300, but
he violated your right as a citizen to enter your government building
for official business.
he also violated your 2nd A right by disarming you unlawfully!
 
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.45ACPaddy

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Lakewood, WA
1245A Defender said:
you wanted to check in your gun, so you could enter the building.
the cop starts the process, takes your gun, asks for ID/CPL.
you dont have ID/CPL.
cop unloads gun and mag, puts it all in paper bags.
gives it all to you, does not allow check in or entry to building.

if this was the case.
not only did he violate RCW 9.41.300, but
he violated your right as a citizen to enter your government building
for official business.
he also violated your 2nd A right by disarming you unlawfully!
Click to expand...

I'd like to clarify on the officer disarming me. The main purpose of going to the county city building was to be in the company of my friend who was applying for a CPL. A convenient secondary purpose was to see how they handle OC with no ID and no CPL. In order to get a thorough look at how they handle the process, I DID consent to the officer disarming me, as well as answering a couple questions as I narrated in my previous post on the first page. This wasn't an encounter in which I was going to flex every right and cite every relevant law as violations were taking place, as I would normally do. This was a "go with the flow and see how things are handled" encounter. I did, I observed, and I shared. We've now had insight into the process.

The officers who do this have their policies set forth by their superiors. We may not agree with those policies. Let us make sure we keep focus and not get all over the person following their boss' instructions and doing as they're told. Given, they should follow the LAW no matter what. Let us instead write to the superiors and express our dissatisfaction of how things were handled, inform them objectively of what laws were violated by those policies and by their conduct, and see what we can get done to change those policies, so that we may go about our business in a lawful manner without having our rights violated and without them violating policy, simultaneously.

I, personally, would give the person a card with some unique number or other means of tracking the card to reclaim their property. It ought to be the card holder's responsibility to keep track of that card. If it's stolen, the person ought to notify staff of the theft. Ultimately, though, the responsibility of keeping track of the card should be the card holder's.

If anyone has ideas or insight as to how the process could be better handled to achieve my above stated goal, please share!
 
H

hrlysef

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Maple Valley, Washington, USA
Excerpt:

From RCW 9.41.300, Weapons prohibited in certain places — Local laws and ordinances — Exceptions — Penalty...

The local legislative authority shall be liable for any negligence causing damage to or loss of a weapon either placed in a locked box or left with an official during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deputies shouldn't handle our firearms any more that putting it in a safe place. Seems to me that this part of the RCW should be included in every argument/letter to the county reps and Sheriff. I'm thinking about an episode of COPS where the officers couldn't figure out how to unload a small pistol (sorry no link), negligence usually raises a red flag no matter who you are.

Also, why can't they put a barrel type system, like at the WAC shows, for unloading or loading a firearm in a safe direction? Cheap and relatively safe.
 
amzbrady

amzbrady

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Marysville, Washington, USA
They should have a bank of lockers that you can put your firearm in and take the key, when you are done you put the key in the lock which retains the key when opened, and you reholster and walk out. It should be set up where there is no interaction between you and anyone else.
 
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