NC OC experience reports

[dmatting]

I actually CC'ed the other day because me & my grand children spent the day in a city park, and the shorts/belt i had on worked with a concealed better anyway. i had more comments of "where is your gun", then i have as a OC. :lol:

CAROLINA GUY, where did you get the law that you posted. when i look it up there is none of the provision of the CHP. could you tell me the source

if this is the official word. then it looks like OC is allowed if you have a CHP. please don't be offended, i just want to see the law myself.

The state takes its sweet time in updating the laws on the general assembly website. Who knows when they will update the text of the law to what it was changed to with HB937 (now SL2013-369). Go to the general assembly website and type in hb937 at the top where it says "find a bill". All the versions of the bill and the final state law will be listed as links. I would click on the final link - the state law text to read it properly without all the crossed out lines, etc.

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us

The verbiage of the law does not specifically state that one must be carrying concealed while at a restaurant that serves alcohol but that one must have a CHP. I'm in agreement that this would be open to interpretation but I don't think I'll be trying it out myself.

 

[carolina guy]

The state takes its sweet time in updating the laws on the general assembly website. Who knows when they will update the text of the law to what it was changed to with HB937 (now SL2013-369). Go to the general assembly website and type in hb937 at the top where it says "find a bill". All the versions of the bill and the final state law will be listed as links. I would click on the final link - the state law text to read it properly without all the crossed out lines, etc.

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us

The verbiage of the law does not specifically state that one must be carrying concealed while at a restaurant that serves alcohol but that one must have a CHP. I'm in agreement that this would be open to interpretation but I don't think I'll be trying it out myself.

+1

The part that bothers me the most (for it's lack of clarity) is the last sentence:

This subdivision shall not be construed to permit a person to carry a handgun on any premises where the person in legal possession or control of the premises has posted a conspicuous notice prohibiting the carrying of a concealed handgun on the premises in accordance with G.S. 14-415.11(c).

So...if you are OC, have a CHP and there is a sign prohibiting CC, you cannot OC or CC?

 

[WalkingWolf]

+1

The part that bothers me the most (for it's lack of clarity) is the last sentence:



So...if you are OC, have a CHP and there is a sign prohibiting CC, you cannot OC or CC?

OCing in a restaurant that serves alcohol is still illegal. Their was no exception made for OC, plus the summary made it clear the change was only for CC. The only way to OC in such a establishment is with permission, during a event. Note event is not defined in the law, breakfast, lunch or dinner are events.

This is my take on the law, until there is a case that challenges it. Something for the younguns, not me. I am happy to eat in non serving restaurants, which are also less expensive, and usually have better service.

 

[carolina guy]

OCing in a restaurant that serves alcohol is still illegal. Their was no exception made for OC, plus the summary made it clear the change was only for CC. The only way to OC in such a establishment is with permission, during a event. Note event is not defined in the law, breakfast, lunch or dinner are events.

This is my take on the law, until there is a case that challenges it. Something for the younguns, not me. I am happy to eat in non serving restaurants, which are also less expensive, and usually have better service.

+1

 

[ron73440]

On Saturday, I took my family to the NC Seafood Festival in Morehead City, we were passed by two groups of cops, I think they saw the pistol, but I just wanted to be left alone, so I didn't approach them to find out.

Talked to an older gentleman from Tennesee who said it was good to see someone carrying, because "These days you never know." He also said he had a 1911 that was too heavy to carry. I told him mine isn't light, but I carry everywhere I can, if you need it it won't help you in the car.

The next day we went to Smithfield's in New Bern and while I was waiting the man behind me (wearing a big Hawaiian shirt, not obvious at all) told me he appreciated seeing an open carrier and he is a former cop with a CCW*. He didn't know what a Baby Eagle was, but once I explained it to him he said he had heard that Israeli wapons were a dream to shoot, which I definitely agreed with him on.

*I know in NC it's not a CCW, that's the term he used.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Speaking of non serving restaurants, I had breakfast at Fairview Dairy Bar, Sanford this morning before going to the doctor. I was carrying my Star in a belt slide holster openly. Good service, good food, and not a stare. We normally go to IHOP for breakfast(closer to home). But since I had to go the hospital a few blocks from the Dairy Bar it made sense. We have gone there before but it was always because I was leaving the hospital so most times unarmed. Prices are about the same as IHOP, and I noticed a discount on my bill, I assume because I look old.

 

[Grapeshot]

Speaking of non serving restaurants, I had breakfast at Fairview Dairy Bar, Sanford this morning before going to the doctor. I was carrying my Star in a belt slide holster openly. Good service, good food, and not a stare. We normally go to IHOP for breakfast(closer to home). But since I had to go the hospital a few blocks from the Dairy Bar it made sense. We have gone there before but it was always because I was leaving the hospital so most times unarmed. Prices are about the same as IHOP, and I noticed a discount on my bill, I assume because I look old.

:banana: All gratuities favorably accepted.

 

[G22shooter]

Posting from Chick-fil-A while OC. After the munchkin finishes playing, it's off to Lowe's for deck stain.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 4

 

[papa bear]

OCing in a restaurant that serves alcohol is still illegal. Their was no exception made for OC, plus the summary made it clear the change was only for CC. The only way to OC in such a establishment is with permission, during a event. Note event is not defined in the law, breakfast, lunch or dinner are events.

This is my take on the law, until there is a case that challenges it. Something for the younguns, not me. I am happy to eat in non serving restaurants, which are also less expensive, and usually have better service.

i was going to someones house to check on removing some bees (turn out to be yellow jackets). their house was way back in the woods. as we drove up, my mother said "oh, they might shoot at us". i said well i can shoot back. they didn't say anything about my carry and if they were nervous about it i couldn't tell

WOLF, the way the law reads it does look like OC is legal. it doesn't say what kind of carry you do. what is the reason you think that OC is illegal. if you have a good argument, i will agree

 

[WalkingWolf]

i was going to someones house to check on removing some bees (turn out to be yellow jackets). their house was way back in the woods. as we drove up, my mother said "oh, they might shoot at us". i said well i can shoot back. they didn't say anything about my carry and if they were nervous about it i couldn't tell

WOLF, the way the law reads it does look like OC is legal. it doesn't say what kind of carry you do. what is the reason you think that OC is illegal. if you have a good argument, i will agree

Read the summary for the change in the law, it is in the preface. It clearly states the law is for legal concealed carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol. If you check back Medic posted it. Plus it is illegal to OC, there is already a statute that clearly states it is illegal to OC or conceal where alcohol is sold and consumed. That law has not changed and is still in effect. Open carry in NC is separate from conceal carry, IMO there will be arrests. For me it just is not worth it when there are good restaurant that have reasonable service and meals for lower prices than alcohol serving businesses plus not having to deal with drunks.

Not going to jail, having a good meal at reasonable prices, in a brightly lit comfortable restaurant is a win/win for me. But I am not against some person who wants to be the test case. I will be behind them all the way in spirit...

This is from the bill analysis, written BY GRNC~~

Section 3 authorizes a person with a concealed carry permit to carry a concealed handgun at assemblies
where an admission fee is charged and any establishment that serves alcohol unless the person in control
of the premises has posted a notice prohibiting carrying a concealed handgun on the premises.

 

[papa bear]

Sorry WOLF i went back and tried to find medics post, failed

i am going by what the law actually says;

(5) A person carrying a handgun if the person has a valid concealed handgun permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter, has a concealed handgun permit considered valid under G.S. 14-415.24, or is exempt from obtaining a permit pursuant to G.S. 14-415.25.
.

it does say carrying a hand gun, doesn't specifically say how. i do have a CHP, so if i get the urge to go to a place that serves& consumes, i believe i will. i do believe i will keep a copy of this law on me it will probably confuse the LEO enough that they wouldn't know what to do. the only thing that can happen is i get charged with a misdemeanor and maybe lose my CHP, no big deal. of course i would have to go back to that stupid PPP :cuss:

of course carried all over town. i don't think anyone even noticed. if they did they didn't say anything

 

[carolina guy]

Read the summary for the change in the law, it is in the preface. It clearly states the law is for legal concealed carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol. If you check back Medic posted it. Plus it is illegal to OC, there is already a statute that clearly states it is illegal to OC or conceal where alcohol is sold and consumed. That law has not changed and is still in effect. Open carry in NC is separate from conceal carry, IMO there will be arrests. For me it just is not worth it when there are good restaurant that have reasonable service and meals for lower prices than alcohol serving businesses plus not having to deal with drunks.

Not going to jail, having a good meal at reasonable prices, in a brightly lit comfortable restaurant is a win/win for me. But I am not against some person who wants to be the test case. I will be behind them all the way in spirit...

This is from the bill analysis, written BY GRNC~~

Section 3 authorizes a person with a concealed carry permit to carry a concealed handgun at assemblies
where an admission fee is charged and any establishment that serves alcohol unless the person in control
of the premises has posted a notice prohibiting carrying a concealed handgun on the premises.

Reading the bill as passed, I do not see the summary saying this is for concealed carry...

http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2013/Bills/House/HTML/H937v6.html

Version One has this as the summary (my emphasis):

A BILL TO BE ENTITLED
​

AN ACT TO INCREASE PENALTIES FOR CERTAIN CRIMES IN WHICH A FIREARM IS USED, DISPLAYED, OR THERE IS A THREAT TO USE OR DISPLAY A FIREARM; TO MAKE IT A CRIMINAL OFFENSE FOR ANYONE TO PERMIT A CHILD TO HAVE ACCESS TO OR POSSESS A FIREARM WITHOUT SUPERVISION AND PARENTAL CONSENT; TO PROVIDE THAT A PERSON WHO HAS A VALID CONCEALED HANDGUN PERMIT MAY DO ALL OF THE FOLLOWING: HAVE A CONCEALED HANDGUN IN A LOCKED VEHICLE IN A STATE GOVERNMENT PARKING LOT, HAVE A CONCEALED HANDGUN IN A LOCKED COMPARTMENT IN A VEHICLE ON THE PREMISES OF A COMMUNITY COLLEGE, PUBLIC COLLEGE, OR PUBLIC UNIVERSITY, AND CARRY A HANDGUN INTO AN ASSEMBLY WHERE AN ADMISSION FEE IS CHARGED OR AN ESTABLISHMENT WHERE ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES ARE SOLD AND CONSUMED, UNLESS THE PERSON IN LEGAL POSSESSION OR CONTROL OF THE PREMISES HAS POSTED A NOTICE PROHIBITING THE CARRYING OF HANDGUNS ON THE PREMISES; TO PROVIDE THAT AN EMPLOYEE OF A PUBLIC INSTITUTION OF HIGHER EDUCATION WHO LIVES ON CAMPUS AND HAS A CONCEALED HANDGUN PERMIT MAY CARRY A HANDGUN ON THE EMPLOYEE'S RESIDENTIAL PREMISES AND ALSO KEEP THE GUN IN THE EMPLOYEE'S LOCKED VEHICLE IN THE PARKING AREA OF THE INSTITUTION OF HIGHER EDUCATION; AND TO CLARIFY THE LAW ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT AUTHORITY TO PROHIBIT CONCEALED CARRY OF FIREARMS.

Versions 2 through 4 have similar wording about assembly/restaurant carry.

I agree, the summary and the passed bill requires that someone have a CHP in order to carry, but the method of carry is not specified as it is in other changes of the bill.

Other than § 14-269.3, where else is it illegal to carry where alcohol is sold and served?

Like PapaBear...I am willing to be shown where I am reading this wrong, but I just don't see this as anything more than GRNC failed to "properly" restrict the restaurant carry to CC only. I think they screwed up. That said, we just don't find outselves in places that sell and serve alcohol other than something like "Speed Street" since we have 4 little kids.

 

[ron73440]

Reading the bill as passed, I do not see the summary saying this is for concealed carry...

http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2013/Bills/House/HTML/H937v6.html

Version One has this as the summary (my emphasis):



Versions 2 through 4 have similar wording about assembly/restaurant carry.

I agree, the summary and the passed bill requires that someone have a CHP in order to carry, but the method of carry is not specified as it is in other changes of the bill.

Other than § 14-269.3, where else is it illegal to carry where alcohol is sold and served?

Like PapaBear...I am willing to be shown where I am reading this wrong, but I just don't see this as anything more than GRNC failed to "properly" restrict the restaurant carry to CC only. I think they screwed up. That said, we just don't find outselves in places that sell and serve alcohol other than something like "Speed Street" since we have 4 little kids.

I agree with papa bear's interpretation, but since I don't have a permit it will change nothing and all those places are off limits.

What can we do to get Constitutional Carry passed?

GRNC doesn't seem too interested in helping us.

 

[carolina guy]

I agree with papa bear's interpretation, but since I don't have a permit it will change nothing and all those places are off limits.

What can we do to get Constitutional Carry passed?

GRNC doesn't seem too interested in helping us.

The ways to amend the NC Constitution:

http://www.ncleg.net/Legislation/constitution/article13.html

ARTICLE XIII
CONVENTIONS; CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT AND REVISION

Section 1. Convention of the People.
No Convention of the People of this State shall ever be called unless by the concurrence of two-thirds of all the members of each house of the General Assembly, and unless the proposition "Convention or No Convention" is first submitted to the qualified voters of the State at the time and in the manner prescribed by the General Assembly. If a majority of the votes cast upon the proposition are in favor of a Convention, it shall assemble on the day prescribed by the General Assembly. The General Assembly shall, in the act submitting the convention proposition, propose limitations upon the authority of the Convention; and if a majority of the votes cast upon the proposition are in favor of a Convention, those limitations shall become binding upon the Convention. Delegates to the Convention shall be elected by the qualified voters at the time and in the manner prescribed in the act of submission. The Convention shall consist of a number of delegates equal to the membership of the House of Representatives of the General Assembly that submits the convention proposition and the delegates shall be apportioned as is the House of Representatives. A Convention shall adopt no ordinance not necessary to the purpose for which the Convention has been called.

Sec. 2. Power to revise or amend Constitution reserved to people.
The people of this State reserve the power to amend this Constitution and to adopt a new or revised Constitution. This power may be exercised by either of the methods set out hereinafter in this Article, but in no other way.

Sec. 3. Revision or amendment by Convention of the People.
A Convention of the People of this State may be called pursuant to Section 1 of this Article to propose a new or revised Constitution or to propose amendments to this Constitution. Every new or revised Constitution and every constitutional amendment adopted by a Convention shall be submitted to the qualified voters of the State at the time and in the manner prescribed by the Convention. If a majority of the votes cast thereon are in favor of ratification of the new or revised Constitution or the constitutional amendment or amendments, it or they shall become effective January first next after ratification by the qualified voters unless a different effective date is prescribed by the Convention.

Sec. 4. Revision or amendment by legislative initiation.
A proposal of a new or revised Constitution or an amendment or amendments to this Constitution may be initiated by the General Assembly, but only if three-fifths of all the members of each house shall adopt an act submitting the proposal to the qualified voters of the State for their ratification or rejection. The proposal shall be submitted at the time and in the manner prescribed by the General Assembly. If a majority of the votes cast thereon are in favor of the proposed new or revised Constitution or constitutional amendment or amendments, it or they shall become effective January first next after ratification by the voters unless a different effective date is prescribed in the act submitting the proposal or proposals to the qualified voters.

Given the make-up of the legislature currently, I doubt you will get 3/5ths of both chambers since the House is 56% Republican but you might get it by the Senate (62%)...but I guess stranger things have happened. Talk to your Representative and see if they will get that ball rolling??

Otherwise, you will need to get a statewide ballot and will only need a simple majority of voters, it seems.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Sorry WOLF i went back and tried to find medics post, failed

i am going by what the law actually says;

(5) A person carrying a handgun if the person has a valid concealed handgun permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter, has a concealed handgun permit considered valid under G.S. 14-415.24, or is exempt from obtaining a permit pursuant to G.S. 14-415.25.
.

it does say carrying a hand gun, doesn't specifically say how. i do have a CHP, so if i get the urge to go to a place that serves& consumes, i believe i will. i do believe i will keep a copy of this law on me it will probably confuse the LEO enough that they wouldn't know what to do. the only thing that can happen is i get charged with a misdemeanor and maybe lose my CHP, no big deal. of course i would have to go back to that stupid PPP :cuss:

of course carried all over town. i don't think anyone even noticed. if they did they didn't say anything

Carrying a firearm has been established as illegal for open carry(alcohol sold and consumed) in the law for along time. Nothing in the new law changed it, again OC and CC are separate in NC. Nothing in the new law made OC legal. But it did make carry legal for CHP holders, that is CONCEALED handgun permit holders. It was poorly written, by GRNC. I will wait on a court case before I OC with or without a permit. Maybe one of you youngsters could get arrested for the rest of us.

For me it just is not that important to eat in establishments that overcharge and have drunks on occasion. It would not be worth even if unlicensed OC was legal. I have nothing against anybody thinking different, I encourage in it, and hope somebody gets arrested to get a court ruling to end GRNC march to eliminate unlicensed OC.

 

[carolina guy]

Carrying a firearm has been established as illegal for open carry in the law for along time. Nothing in the new law changed it, again OC and CC are separate in NC. Nothing in the new law made OC legal.

You mean in places that serve alcohol, or in general?

 

[WalkingWolf]

You mean in places that serve alcohol, or in general?

Yes I meant in the context of the conversation(sell and consumption of alcohol).

 

[carolina guy]

Yes I meant in the context of the conversation(sell and consumption of alcohol).

Gotcha! The problem is that the only place (14-269.3) that I know of in NCGS that actually makes it illegal, changed. Is there somewhere else other than 14-269.3 making it illegal?

 

[WalkingWolf]

Gotcha! The problem is that the only place (14-269.3) that I know of in NCGS that actually makes it illegal, changed. Is there somewhere else other than 14-269.3 making it illegal?

There does not need to be, it only takes one statute to make it illegal. Without another statute specifically making it legal, IMO, it still is illegal. The new statute does not address OC which is separate from CC. The carry that is made acceptable is with a CONCEALED HANDGUN PERMIT. Which the NC constitution clearly separates OC from CC.

But I still hope somebody tests it out, because IMO the law outlawing OC in a restaurant is unconstitutional. With that said I still will not spend extra money to eat in a dimly lit expensive restaurant.

 

[carolina guy]

There does not need to be, it only takes one statute to make it illegal. Without another statute specifically making it legal, IMO, it still is illegal. The new statute does not address OC which is separate from CC. The carry that is made acceptable is with a CONCEALED HANDGUN PERMIT. Which the NC constitution clearly separates OC from CC.

But I still hope somebody tests it out, because IMO the law outlawing OC in a restaurant is unconstitutional. With that said I still will not spend extra money to eat in a dimly lit expensive restaurant.

Ok....I see where you are going with this, didn't think about the basic NC Constitution prohibition against CC.