• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

President Biden's nomination, David Chipman, is pulled.

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,160
Location
here nc
Another win for the NRA
BS NRA had no vested interest in objecting to Chipman's appointment. the ATF has operated under Marvin G. Richardson who was appointed as Deputy Director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives on June 4, 2021 as well as served as the Associate Deputy Director and Chief Operating Officer, the second highest ranking official at ATF, from October 2019 to June 2021.

NSSF, National Shooting Sports Foundation, the firearm industry trade association, should receive total credit for the President's idiotic choice & Congress' push to get rid of Chipman's appointment from moving forward based on his past, quote:

1. Clearly unqualified to lead ATF due to his employment as a gun control lobbyist for Everytown for Gun Safety and Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence. He had previously testified on Capitol Hill in favor of gun bans, gun registration and gun control policies that were not in keeping with the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens. He also made denigrating remarks about the 8.4 million first-time gun buyers last year, calling into question his ability to fairly and evenly apply the law as written and firearm regulations.

2. Chipman was later accused of making racially-denigrating remarks, to which he has yet to answer.
president-biden-withdraws-nomination-of-david-chipman-for-atf-director
 

KBCraig

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
4,823
Location
Granite State of Mind
Chipman was a trial balloon; a distraction.

He was the feint that sets up a sucker punch.

Look at the timing. Withdrawal of Chipman's nomination in the morning, and a new outrage from the vaccine mandate that same afternoon.

The next nominee will be just as bad, or even worse, but they won't have a big public record of advocacy.

Americans are pretty famous for only holding one thought at a time. For those who watch TV news, it's enhanced by TV focusing on one outrage at a time, 24/7, excluding all others.

Our folks here are (mostly) more in tune than that, but this is a small group. Your friends and relatives who send you the latest outrage every day probably fall for the subterfuge. And it doesn't matter if their only source of information if MSNBC, CNN, Fox, OAN, or their internet equivalent echo chambers.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,160
Location
here nc
shades of george's 1984...

More broadly, truth and facts within politics and the ways in which they are manipulated.
 

American Patriot

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Messages
266
Location
, ,
BS NRA had no vested interest in objecting to Chipman's appointment. the ATF has operated under Marvin G. Richardson who was appointed as Deputy Director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives on June 4, 2021 as well as served as the Associate Deputy Director and Chief Operating Officer, the second highest ranking official at ATF, from October 2019 to June 2021.

NSSF, National Shooting Sports Foundation, the firearm industry trade association, should receive total credit for the President's idiotic choice & Congress' push to get rid of Chipman's appointment from moving forward based on his past, quote:

1. Clearly unqualified to lead ATF due to his employment as a gun control lobbyist for Everytown for Gun Safety and Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence. He had previously testified on Capitol Hill in favor of gun bans, gun registration and gun control policies that were not in keeping with the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens. He also made denigrating remarks about the 8.4 million first-time gun buyers last year, calling into question his ability to fairly and evenly apply the law as written and firearm regulations.

2. Chipman was later accused of making racially-denigrating remarks, to which he has yet to answer.
president-biden-withdraws-nomination-of-david-chipman-for-atf-director

What did you invest in Chipman's defeat?


FAIRFAX, Va. — The National Rifle Association today celebrates a major victory for our members and law-abiding gun owners as news reports indicate the nomination of David Chipman to head the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives will be withdrawn.

“This critical win is thanks to NRA members who flooded their senators’ offices with texts, emails, letters and phone calls voicing their opposition to Chipman’s nomination. Because of their swift action and ongoing opposition over the past several months, the radical gun control advocate will not sit at the helm of the ATF,” said Jason Ouimet, executive director, National Rifle Association Institute for Legislative Action. “For now, gun owners can rest assured the most immediate threat to their rights has been defeated, and gun control proponents have suffered a huge setback.”

Defeating the Chipman confirmation has been a top priority for the NRA since he was first nominated by the Biden administration in April. The NRA spent millions of dollars activating its army of grassroots supporters and educating its members and key lawmakers on Chipman’s extremism. The NRA lobbied members of Congress, ran TV and digital ads across the country, executed a massive mail campaign, hosted dozens of town halls in targeted states, wrote articles and op-eds, and stayed in constant contact with its membership to keep them informed.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,689
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
What did you invest in Chipman's defeat?


FAIRFAX, Va. — The National Rifle Association today celebrates a major victory for our members and law-abiding gun owners as news reports indicate the nomination of David Chipman to head the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives will be withdrawn.

“This critical win is thanks to NRA members who flooded their senators’ offices with texts, emails, letters and phone calls voicing their opposition to Chipman’s nomination. Because of their swift action and ongoing opposition over the past several months, the radical gun control advocate will not sit at the helm of the ATF,” said Jason Ouimet, executive director, National Rifle Association Institute for Legislative Action. “For now, gun owners can rest assured the most immediate threat to their rights has been defeated, and gun control proponents have suffered a huge setback.”

Defeating the Chipman confirmation has been a top priority for the NRA since he was first nominated by the Biden administration in April. The NRA spent millions of dollars activating its army of grassroots supporters and educating its members and key lawmakers on Chipman’s extremism. The NRA lobbied members of Congress, ran TV and digital ads across the country, executed a massive mail campaign, hosted dozens of town halls in targeted states, wrote articles and op-eds, and stayed in constant contact with its membership to keep them informed.
The critical win was due to concerned citizens who some happen to be NRA members. The win was not because of the efforts of the NRA. The NRA at this time is a paper tiger, if that. 99% of the emails I get from the NRA are for money in general, and not money for any specific purpose. I have never seen one TV/radio commercial addressing Chipman.

The takedown of Chipman was a grassroots effort, period.
 

CJ4wd

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2017
Messages
317
Location
Planet Earth
The critical win was due to concerned citizens who some happen to be NRA members. The win was not because of the efforts of the NRA. The NRA at this time is a paper tiger, if that. 99% of the emails I get from the NRA are for money in general, and not money for any specific purpose. I have never seen one TV/radio commercial addressing Chipman.

The takedown of Chipman was a grassroots effort, period.

With pushes and incentive from not only the NRA but the SAF, GOA, and FPC. All of whom pushed letter writing campaigns to their followers.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,160
Location
here nc
never mind...not entering a he said/he said contest or how has the biggest bluster in the news...NRA-ILA hasn't had a successful anything, except the organization's president's adventure(s) while hunting in Africa or on lavish vacations or going on shopping sprees, etc.

Y'all can believe NRA ILA's hypothetical reporting, put out strictly to garner even more $$$...

oh, ILA as a separate entity does not distract for the outstanding activities of the original concept of their training activities.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,160
Location
here nc
ATF has been a ghost of an organization since before President Reagan who pushed to abolish the agency as a stand-alone and merge it into the secret service, which at the insistence of ILA was abandoned, but the ATF has grown even more stagnant since...
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,160
Location
here nc
"Stagnant"? Wouldn't "invasive" and "insidious" be more appropriate?
nawl, stagnant is the best word...

Mother Jones sept/oct 2016 edition, quote:
More than 10 million guns are made in the United States every year, and another 5 million are imported. That’s on top of the estimated 350 million already in Americans’ hands. Then consider that there are only 2,600 ATF special agents, and it’s not hard to see why gun grabbing isn’t just a political fantasy, but a mathematical impossibility. “Even if we were like, ‘Yeah, we’re coming to take your guns,'” Ray says, “30 years from now you might get a knock on your door.”

The ATF has a hard enough time doing the job it’s actually set up to do. By design, it’s an analog agency in a digital world. The bureau currently gets 2 million new records a month, documents that line the hallways and are stacked head-high in offices throughout the tracing center. The overflow extends to the parking lot, where on the day I visited there were 13 shipping containers crammed with paperwork. Much of it comes from gun dealers that have gone out of business and are required to send their sales records to the ATF. They come in on microfilm, on DVDs, in encrypted files. Some arrive burned, soaked, or on tracing paper. “It makes you wonder if this was done on purpose,” says Ray, pointing to a pile of partly shredded documents.

unquote.

 

American Patriot

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Messages
266
Location
, ,
nawl, stagnant is the best word...

Mother Jones sept/oct 2016 edition, quote:
More than 10 million guns are made in the United States every year, and another 5 million are imported. That’s on top of the estimated 350 million already in Americans’ hands. Then consider that there are only 2,600 ATF special agents, and it’s not hard to see why gun grabbing isn’t just a political fantasy, but a mathematical impossibility. “Even if we were like, ‘Yeah, we’re coming to take your guns,'” Ray says, “30 years from now you might get a knock on your door.”

The ATF has a hard enough time doing the job it’s actually set up to do. By design, it’s an analog agency in a digital world. The bureau currently gets 2 million new records a month, documents that line the hallways and are stacked head-high in offices throughout the tracing center. The overflow extends to the parking lot, where on the day I visited there were 13 shipping containers crammed with paperwork. Much of it comes from gun dealers that have gone out of business and are required to send their sales records to the ATF. They come in on microfilm, on DVDs, in encrypted files. Some arrive burned, soaked, or on tracing paper. “It makes you wonder if this was done on purpose,” says Ray, pointing to a pile of partly shredded documents.

unquote.

“The NRA wants us right where we’re at,” says the ATF’s Troppman. “They have the ear of a big portion of Congress, so they can manipulate what happens. It’s, ‘You can come this close, but if you come any closer, we’re going to make things difficult for you.'”
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,689
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
“The NRA wants us right where we’re at,” says the ATF’s Troppman. “They have the ear of a big portion of Congress, so they can manipulate what happens. It’s, ‘You can come this close, but if you come any closer, we’re going to make things difficult for you.'”
Please explain. I have never had any contact with an ATF agent. Have never been denied a purchase and have never used a SS number to make a purchase.

I know a retired ATF employee; when working there and a person in the know, said the agency was disorganized, the agents were poorly trained and what training they received was out dated.

Good example: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/state-laws-and-published-ordinances-firearms-34th-edition
Garbage in, garbage out and outdated.
 
Last edited:

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,160
Location
here nc
“The NRA wants us right where we’re at,” says the ATF’s Troppman. “They have the ear of a big portion of Congress, so they can manipulate what happens. It’s, ‘You can come this close, but if you come any closer, we’re going to make things difficult for you.'”
Sorry is there a cite to go with your statement & who is ATF troppman and is he speaking as an ATF official spokeperson?

seems president Reagan cut the legs out from under this government agency and the NRA-ILA pushed hard to keep the agency as a stand alone entity -- doesn't sound like the nra-ila doesn't supports the agency...
 

American Patriot

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Messages
266
Location
, ,
Sorry is there a cite to go with your statement & who is ATF troppman and is he speaking as an ATF official spokeperson?

seems president Reagan cut the legs out from under this government agency and the NRA-ILA pushed hard to keep the agency as a stand alone entity -- doesn't sound like the nra-ila doesn't supports the agency...
You provided the cite in your post that I quoted... I just quoted from your article. The link is in my quote of your post. If you read the entire item you posted you will see. Its is easy to miss important information when cherry picking an item.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,689
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
You provided the cite in your post that I quoted... I just quoted from your article. The link is in my quote of your post. If you read the entire item you posted you will see. Its is easy to miss important information when cherry picking an item.
And in there lies the problem. You didn't say that when you posted the quote. You waisted solus and my time. The quote is from a "program manager." That is a mid level position. As I said: garbage in, garbage out.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,160
Location
here nc
You provided the cite in your post that I quoted... I just quoted from your article. The link is in my quote of your post. If you read the entire item you posted you will see. Its is easy to miss important information when cherry picking an item.
like you just did AP...very last commentary from the very very last paragraph...
 
Top