Once again, a Gun saved Lives

[BobCav]

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baz wrote:

hey,

u have some good points. as u said it is a cultural thing that we are brought up here thinking that guns are really bad, and is why i have trouble understanding the laws. as everything there are two sides to every story and so it is good to hear some of your valid points.

would you say that gun laws for protection is reactive to that fact that criminals have guns tho? or it is for the protection of oneself in general?

also, if given the choice would u like there to be no guns at all - so no criminals OR civilians could have it?

cheers

baz

Baz, not to open up old wounds, but...

"To understand the Second Amendment and its importance and relevance for us today, one must analyze the origins of the right to keep and bear arms, the events surrounding the Revolutionary War, and the ratification of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.[2] When this is done, it becomes apparent that the right to keep and bear arms is inseparably connected with the inalienable right of the people to alter and abolish a tyrannical government.[3] One of the main objectives of the Framers of the Second Amendment was to specifically ensure that this fundamental right, which they had successfully exercised in the Revolutionary War, would be preserved for future generations.[4] The Second Amendment serves as an essential check and balance against the possibility of governmental tyranny. Therefore, the right of individuals to keep and bear arms, like many other provisions of the Constitution, should be respected and protected today as crucial to the maintenance of our freedom."

This Patriotic moment brought to you by: http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/Wayment1.htm

Which brings up the point....I don't think it's working.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

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I wish people on this board weren't so quick to brand people as "trolls" just because they obviously have a very different point of view than the rest of us. Baz' comments and questions don't appear to be particularly inflammatory or troublesome, and if we respond as though they are, he will leave with the impression that we are just a bunch of ill-mannered yahoos.

I assume Baz came here out of curiosity about the significant cultural differences between Americans' attitudes toward guns and self defense, and that of most other English speaking countries.

Baz, as long as you have any bonafide curiosity about our interest in , and use of guns, I encourage you to stick around and try to understand us. Its quite simple really: there is plenty of violence in the world that police can't prevent or intercede in (whether involving guns, knives, bottles or clubs). The firearm is the single most effective way of deterring or evening the match in violent confrontations. In many, perhaps most instances, the mere display of the gun stops the criminal attack. We accept the traditional American attitude of self reliance and responsibility for our own safety, and that of our loved ones. Open or concealed carry of firearms is widely legal and acceptable in this country, so we chose to carry because we can, and feel we should.

I sincerely hope you never find yourself the victim of criminal violence. In all liklihood, you never will. But if you are, you might understand why we consider the right of honest people to arm themselves to be so important.

 

[jimwyant]

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Dutch Uncle wrote:

I wish people on this board weren't so quick to brand people as "trolls" just because they obviously have a very different point of view than the rest of us. Baz' comments and questions don't appear to be particularly inflammatory or troublesome, and if we respond as though they are, he will leave with the impression that we are just a bunch of ill-mannered yahoos.

I guess I should apologize, since I was the first to label baz as a troll. At the point when I made the comment, it seemed obvious. His statement, "If people weren't allowed to have guns there wouldn't have been any deaths in the first place" is something that seemingly only a troll would have said, especially here on a pro-gun board. Also, he hadn't returned for further discussion. Since that time, he has returned, and his more recent comments are less troll-like considering his country of residence (Austraila) and his primary source of information (hollywood and main-stream media) about America's gun culture.

 

[VAopencarry]

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HEY novaccw!!!! Good to see you back. Noting your new location, I guess you have been busy lately...

 

[pingdashf]

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baz wrote:

if given the choice would u like there to be no guns at all - so no criminals OR civilians could have it?

Even in the utopian world where no crime exists, I would still want my firearms. I may carry the pistol on my hip to protect myself, my family, and all the honest citizens around me from lunatics, but I keep the aresenal in the basement to procted myself, my family, and all the honest citizens around me from politicians and tyrants.

 

[cs9c1]

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baz wrote:

also, if given the choice would u like there to be no guns at all - so no criminals OR civilians could have it?

The best way I can think of to answer this is NO.

If there were no gun, you would be here saying we need to ban all knives.

No knives, lets ban all clubs.

No clubs, lets ban all rocks. ( Don't ask me how you could do that)

Etc...

Then you would end up having to ban all interactions between people.

Some people are just plain "BAD", and no matter what laws you pass they are going to do bad things. Laws will never stop criminal activity, only define it and enable you to punish it. The more you enact laws that limit the law abiding to protect themselves the more you help the criminal.



By the way, criminals are civilians.

 

[Fusil]

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So I was right, Baz is a fellow aussie.

Anyone had a look at that forum yet.

There's a wierdo or two on it.

I moderate on an Australian RKBA site where we do our tiny (as yet) bit to spread the word.

http://www.primerpocket.com/forum/phpBB2/index.php

andthere isThe Shooters' Party which actually has a member in the New South Wales parliament, and which, after the State election later this month, will possibly have two.

http://www.shootersparty.org.au/

 

[baz]

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hey,

thanks dutch uncle for showing a sense of understanding from where i am coming from; with not knowing much about the situation in America

it is good that there have been responses educating me to why guns are used (not just abuse), and why it is important to the American people. it is quite different in Aus so it is refreshing to hear the pro-gun side of the argument; with valid comments that you have put up.

i wouldn't say that i am pro-guns now, but i now do have a sense of understanding of where you are coming from and won't be so quick judge.

cheers
baz

 

[Ground Chuk]

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Hey Baz,

Something to think about, when it comes to weapons. The most dangerous weapon is a human. There is nothing more dangerous than a human intent on doing harm to another human.

In fact, a comedian (George Carlin) said it best, paraphrasing "..what if a person with really large hands gets on the plane? He could just reach out and strangle you...".

So, when do we start saying that folks with really large hands are a danger? What about those who know martial arts? No "weapons" involved there (for the most part), just the human as a weapon.

Guns do not kill people, it is the human controlling the gun. The human is intent on killing, so unless you keep each individual under strict control, you will never keep humans from killing each other. And even then you will still fail.

Those of us who have no intention of killing should be allowed, by all means necessary, to protect ourselves from those who would.

 

[LoveMyCountry]

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Baz,

Something else to remember about guns is that most of us just plain like them!

It takes some skill, training and natural talent to to use them well. They are a mechanical device that we can clean, repair, upgrade and enjoy using.Guns are very much like a PC, stereo or automobile- some people like them plain and some hotrod them but they all enjoy having them. We have a HUGE community of shooters of all ages (my daughter was shooting at 3)that we can fellowship with, compete against and learn from.

The fact that we can useguns to protect ourselves, our loved ones and our liberties is just frosting on the cake!

If you ever find yourself in the U.S. I GUARANTEE that one of the fine folks on this board will show you such a good time that you won't be able to pry the smile off of your face.


LoveMyCountry