Citizen
Founder's Club Member
Citizen, "So, for myself, to play it safe, if a cop demands identity, I will give it to him while refusing consent."
The main concern that I have is the OFFICIAL Document which said LEO puts in the record books.
I am a Law Abiding Citizen, pay my Taxes and Vote. I have not disregarded any laws of OC/CC and don't want any RED FLAGS against me.
I DO NOT want a paper trail of some type of *** Legal Concern*** tagged on my good reputation.
So, with that being said, I suppose I would play the situation out and try to determine if the final outcome has a promising conclusion or not, all the while being Very Respectful toward LEO and if it comes down to it, just Plead the 5th and shut my trap before I set myself up for a big hassle.
I guess..... I'm really trying to get a handle on this issue so it will never come down to a major blow out that ends up with myself jeopardizing the well being of my family.
"just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right "
Obama, 08'
So, in the end,,,, Who Wins ?!?! NO, WHO's on First...
I have no objection to your position as given above.
In fact, SCOTUS in Hiibel vs 6th Judicial District Court even mentions that giving a cop identity today may lead them to something else. In fact a version of this has already happened to a California OCer. Cops seized him without RAS while OCing. During the seizure, they searched him and seized his wallet, obtaining identity info therefrom. The cops couldn't figure out a charge, so let him go. Later, a prosecutor got involved, used a twisted interpretation of the law to charge the OCer. Then, during the judicial process convinced the court to redefine the word public in order to make a charge stick. The OCer was convicted. The relevant point here is that if the cops had not IDed the OCer, they wouldn't have been able to go back after him later when the prosecutor decided to twist the statute.
So, I don't object to your strategy.
However, I notice you only quoted out that one sentence without mentioning of discussing the applicability of the rationale leading up to that quote. You see, if you withhold identity, you may get cited or arrested for that. In which case, they still get your identity, but now you also have a trial, legal expenses, and a possible conviction in your immediate future.
As I mentioned in that same post, there is the law. And, then there is how the law is applied. You must have some idea of both. Certainly your opponents--cops and judges--do. This is where the rubber meets the road. Its not just a matter of what the statute, ordinance, or court cases say. Those are almost secondary. The first and most important is that your opponents are people--people who have their own ideas, their own prejudices, their own interests, and their own intentions.
So, I don't particularly object to your strategy. I would however counsel thinking it through a little more thoroughly.
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