S.W.A.T. stalks protesters outside Capitol

Oh! My! God! What have I started?!!

ROFLMAO!!!

You guys are great! Keep them coming!

peter nap said:

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"OK. Back the car up fifteen feet to get a running start. I"ll hold her here until..."

[size=+2]Would you date me?[/size]

Repeater said:

Would you date me?

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(gulp) No ma'am. I can't tell whether you're Muslim or statist, but I'm neither. Allah and Obama are great, though. Have a nice day! (zzzzip-I'm outa here!)

I don't know if it was an overreaction, but the VSP are tasked with protecting the governor. Abortion is a particularly hot topic, and violence can happen. It does not benefit any of us if the gov is hurt or property is damaged. I talked with a person who was there and they said that the protestors were being less than peaceable and were getting increasingly agitated. My friend, who witnessed much of it was not surprised by the arrests.

Look when we protest we are using our God given rights, but we are also putting ourselves in a position to be examined by law enforcement. It would behoove people protesting to be on their best behavior. Don't give a LEO a reason to arrest you. If he feels threatened he will cuff you and let the courts sort it out. These protestors should take a leaf out of the tea parties book, rally, protest, shout all you like but don't engage the police, don't shout at them, don't call them names. Let them remain on the sidelines, don't pull them into your rally. From what I was told, this is where these guys got themselves into trouble.

MamabearCali said:

Don't give a LEO a reason to arrest you. If he feels threatened he will cuff you and let the courts sort it out.

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His feelings, absent the commission of an actual crime, are not reason for arrest in a free republic.

These protestors should take a leaf out of the tea parties book, rally, protest, shout all you like but don't engage the police, don't shout at them, don't call them names. Let them remain on the sidelines, don't pull them into your rally. From what I was told, this is where these guys got themselves into trouble.

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None of those things are crimes, and none merit an assault and kidnapping by goons wearing government-issued costume jewelry.

Repeater said:

[size=+2]Would you date me?[/size]

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Sorry, ma'am, I actually have standards.

ManInBlack said:

His feelings, absent the commission of an actual crime, are not reason for arrest in a free republic.



None of those things are crimes, and none merit an assault and kidnapping by goons wearing government-issued costume jewelry.

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I absolutely agree with you, but I am talking about the real world, not the one we all wish we lived in. Those "gov't goons" can cause a person a great deal of trouble. Better to avoid both the rap and the ride. I imagine if these guys did not commit a crime they will be released and not charged, does that make it right--nope but it is what we have right now. Be careful out there people.

MamabearCali said:

I absolutely agree with you, but I am talking about the real world, not the one we all wish we lived in. Those "gov't goons" can cause a person a great deal of trouble. Better to avoid both the rap and the ride. I imagine if these guys did not commit a crime they will be released and not charged, does that make it right--nope but it is what we have right now. Be careful out there people.

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Mmm, that's a good point. After all, the last thing a free people should do is ever get uppity at a protest. Much more effective to quietly pretend anybody is paying you any attention, and go home after you feel like you've "made a difference" in being ignored for an afternoon.

marshaul said:

Mmm, that's a good point. After all, the last thing a free people should do is ever get uppity at a protest. Much more effective to quietly pretend anybody is paying you any attention, and go home after you feel like you've "made a difference" in being ignored for an afternoon.

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Actually it is much more effective to call your representative. Meet with them. Go to town halls. Write the governor. Stay abreast of the issues. And above all vote, than to get yourself arrested on a bogus disorderly conduct charge for nothing. Yelling insults at cops gets us no where, looks bad, and does nothing for your cause.

Abortion is a very hot potato. People have been murdered on this issue. The cops were already on high alert. So being less than civilized in a protest will get the LEO's attention. Quite honestly I would not be surprised if the activists got arrested on purpose to bring the issue higher into the public discourse. It would not be an uncommon tactic. If so the VSP did them a favor.

MamabearCali said:

Actually it is much more effective to call your representative. Meet with them. Go to town halls. Write the governor. Stay abreast of the issues.

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That may be so. It may be that there is no valid function to a protest in a government such as ours.

But, when and where protest is an appropriate tack, its purpose is never to be ignored until you feel better. Its purpose is to make the powers that be scared, to remind them who's boss.

Frankly, it's my belief that the modern "protest" is designed to divert the energies of an agitated populace into a pointless endeavor where they can tire themselves out chanting to nobody but themselves.

Our Constitution protects the right to assemble, and it's pretty clear that in that day and age "assembly" was what immediately preceded something greater than simply returning home.

What did you have in mind then as an encore to a protest/rally/whatever. I think the point of a protest in this situation is to let the powers that be know that you are watching and disapprove. You can do that without getting yourself arrested most of the time. The simple prescence of so many would be enough. That is why I suspect that getting arrested was part of the plan for at least some of these guys. If they wanted to cause controversy, mission accomplished.

MamabearCali said:

Quite honestly I would not be surprised if the activists got arrested on purpose to bring the issue higher into the public discourse. It would not be an uncommon tactic. If so the VSP did them a favor.

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Quite likely, MBC.
They certainly garnered far more coverage choosing peaceful civil disobedience. Their choice, and they're going through the process for it. Their message is amplified for it, too.

I'm not going to opine on whether it's sound strategy, but one thing is certain, there are many countries in the world where a protest like this would have resulted in far more of a negative consequence than what transpired.

I might phrase it to say that it can be effective to call or meet with a delegate or senator.

Unfortunately, it can also be a total waste of time.

Also, don't overlook that a number of bad laws were changed in the five centuries because of protests, or because of lawbreakers with who the public were sympathetic.

On OCDO we do not advocated breaking the law. However, we'd be fools not to recognize that is sometimes what it takes. John Lilburne won us the right against self-incrimination precisely by repeatedly breaking the law and getting prosecuted. He was made of sturdy stuff and was not about to back down, and did not back down. That is to say, he went right ahead and broke the bad law. And, invoked the not-fully-recognized right against self-incrimination. When the government pushed the matter, the public became rather agitated. Finally, the Star Chamber court was entirely abolished--traceable directly to John Lilburne.

Similar for Peter Zenger in the following century. The government unknowingly took a tiger by the tail and yanked really hard. He deliberately broke a bad law; and when the arrogant government decided to prosecute, he came out with all guns blazing, figuratively speaking.

Got me there citizen. Spot on in all accounts. The only thing I will say is if you tickle the scorpion on it's tail be prepared for the sting. If you are exercising public disobedience to shed light on a bad law/situation be ready for the consequences.

We tend to forget how we got our rights Mama Bear and honestly I make a point of not arguing with people about it. There are three classes of people in this country. Those that will take our rights. Those that never back away from a fight and those that sit on their hands and try to be civilized. They are what they are and I don't try to change a Leopards spots.

There are two quotes I'll make before I back out of this discussion which doesn't belong here anyway.

For the civilized people who are afraid:
You know in my line of work, you gotta be able either to sing "The Battle Hymn Of The Republic" or "Dixie" with equal enthusiasm... dependin' upon present company.

For those who would keep the faith:
Are you gonna pull those pistols or whistle Dixie?

MamabearCali said:

Got me there citizen. Spot on in all accounts. The only thing I will say is if you tickle the scorpion on it's tail be prepared for the sting. If you are exercising public disobedience to shed light on a bad law/situation be ready for the consequences.

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Thank you for the compliment.

You've got me thinking. You know, I wonder why Peter Zenger was so successful. John Lilburne's success was due in part to the fact that he was a recognized military hero. Not just a hero. A hero the public new by name and recognized. So, word got around that (Capt?) Lilburne was in trouble. Another aspect was that the Star Chamber Court and its methods were already strongly disliked by a large segment of the public, having been treating people unfairly for (100 years?). But, not so for Peter Zenger, an editor or publisher who wrote against the government--I don't think he had the name recognition. Popular opinions, maybe. But, not the name recognition.

And, when you think about it, it seems that in past centuries, public communication was slower. And, less noisy--you didn't have a zillion news outlets and newspapers and radio stations and TV stations blaring info at you 24/7. So, how the heck did they make it work when it came time to protest or support a lawbreaker?

And, is todays blare and drone of news really any different than no news? Just a different problem? Is too many outlets really any different than not enough? If you have not enough outlets, its really just a matter of getting through the absence of outlets and to the listener. If you have too many outlets, its still a matter of getting through and to the listener. Heh, heh, heh. Maybe that's part of the reason bloggers are so successful--people can around the noise to focus on the subject(s) in which they are interested.

So, I wonder. What made those lawbreakers, those refusers successful, when others lost their heads or were burned at the stake?

peter nap said:

SNIP You know in my line of work, you gotta be able either to sing "The Battle Hymn Of The Republic" or "Dixie" with equal enthusiasm... dependin' upon present company.

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The ferryman from Outlaw Josey Wales?

Citizen said:

The ferryman from Outlaw Josey Wales?

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Yep!

Where's the Summons?

In all the pictures, and in all the videos, I do not see even one LEO with a Summons book.

It's as though no one in law enforcement was prepared to arrest, and then issue an Official Virginia Uniform Summons as Code Section 19.2-74 mandates.

Were Custodial Arrests planned from the start? I have to wonder about that.