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OC at County-City building in Tacoma

Tomas

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Mar 18, 2010
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University Place, Washington, USA
They should have a bank of lockers that you can put your firearm in and take the key, when you are done you put the key in the lock which retains the key when opened, and you reholster and walk out. It should be set up where there is no interaction between you and anyone else.

That would make sense if this were a threat-free world, but it still does make sense for them to accept your pistol from you, place it in the locker, lock it, and hand you the key, if for no other reason than to reduce the chance of someone sticking a bomb in there...
 

Deleted_User

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Zombie Thread Resurrected

I am going to the Tacoma County-City Building for a court hearing on Friday January 7th, 2011. I will be OC and carrying sterile which is my latest practice at all times. I am going to take my box with me. This box has a lock and fits my firearm and extra mags. I will be placing the firearm in the box with the mags and handing a LOCKED box to the officer after placing my firearm inside. I will explain that since it's locked, only I have a key to it. Since that is true, this is positive identification that I own the firearm inside. There should be NO reason for them to need to open it. All they have to do is just to store it in their little room. I will have my voice recorder going and hopefully this goes well. Court is at 9. I'll be in line as early as I can (8:15 is the plan but IDK when they open)
 
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amlevin

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I am going to the Tacoma County-City Building for a court hearing on Friday January 7th, 2011. I will be OC and carrying sterile which is my latest practice at all times. I am going to take my box with me. This box has a lock and fits my firearm and extra mags. I will be placing the firearm in the box with the mags and handing a LOCKED box to the officer after placing my firearm inside. I will explain that since it's locked, only I have a key to it. Since that is true, this is positive identification that I own the firearm inside. There should be NO reason for them to need to open it. All they have to do is just to store it in their little room. I will have my voice recorder going and hopefully this goes well. Court is at 9. I'll be in line as early as I can (8:15 is the plan but IDK when they open)

But are you aware of how some "public servants" minds work? They may say, "I'm sorry, I'm only allowed to take firearms, not boxes?"
 

BigDave

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I am going to the Tacoma County-City Building for a court hearing on Friday January 7th, 2011. I will be OC and carrying sterile which is my latest practice at all times. I am going to take my box with me. This box has a lock and fits my firearm and extra mags. I will be placing the firearm in the box with the mags and handing a LOCKED box to the officer after placing my firearm inside. I will explain that since it's locked, only I have a key to it. Since that is true, this is positive identification that I own the firearm inside. There should be NO reason for them to need to open it. All they have to do is just to store it in their little room. I will have my voice recorder going and hopefully this goes well. Court is at 9. I'll be in line as early as I can (8:15 is the plan but IDK when they open)

The best laid plans by mice and men...
First I hope you will not be delayed in getting to your scheduled hearing and that by adding an addition factor into things may well throw a wrench into the program not because of the law but who you are dealing with.

I would go about normal daily activity and go through the process.
A note on the issue of "Sterile" is over kill, just because you have ID does not mean you have to show ID.

This is what we have to deal with

  • In addition, the local legislative authority shall provide either a stationary locked box sufficient in size for pistols and key to a weapon owner for weapon storage, or shall designate an official to receive weapons for safekeeping, during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building.
  • The locked box or designated official shall be located within the same building used in connection with court proceedings. The local legislative authority shall be liable for any negligence causing damage to or loss of a weapon either placed in a locked box or left with an official during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building.

As mentioned above they could refuse to accept you lock box as they are not mandated to accept, then you have to do something with it, back to the car if they will not let you carrying into the secure area which they will likely not allow.

Good Luck Goose I am looking forward to hearing about your outing :)
 
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Phssthpok

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I know I'm preaching to the choir, but there's a chance someone who's still learning may come upon this thread at a later date, so:


RCW 9.41.300
Weapons prohibited in certain places — Local laws and ordinances — Exceptions — Penalty.



(1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:

(a) The restricted access areas of a jail, or of a law enforcement facility, or any place used for the confinement of a person (i) arrested for, charged with, or convicted of an offense, (ii) held for extradition or as a material witness, or (iii) otherwise confined pursuant to an order of a court, except an order under chapter 13.32A or 13.34 RCW. Restricted access areas do not include common areas of egress or ingress open to the general public;

(b) Those areas in any building which are used in connection with court proceedings, including courtrooms, jury rooms, judge's chambers, offices and areas used to conduct court business, waiting areas, and corridors adjacent to areas used in connection with court proceedings. The restricted areas do not include common areas of ingress and egress to the building that is used in connection with court proceedings, when it is possible to protect court areas without restricting ingress and egress to the building. The restricted areas shall be the minimum necessary to fulfill the objective of this subsection (1)(b).

For purposes of this subsection (1)(b), "weapon" means any firearm, explosive as defined in RCW 70.74.010, or any weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or any knife, dagger, dirk, or other similar weapon that is capable of causing death or bodily injury and is commonly used with the intent to cause death or bodily injury.

In addition, the local legislative authority shall provide either a stationary locked box sufficient in size for pistols and key to a weapon owner for weapon storage, or shall designate an official to receive weapons for safekeeping, during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building. The locked box or designated official shall be located within the same building used in connection with court proceedings. The local legislative authority shall be liable for any negligence causing damage to or loss of a weapon either placed in a locked box or left with an official during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building.

The local judicial authority shall designate and clearly mark those areas where weapons are prohibited, and shall post notices at each entrance to the building of the prohibition against weapons in the restricted areas;

(c) The restricted access areas of a public mental health facility certified by the department of social and health services for inpatient hospital care and state institutions for the care of the mentally ill, excluding those facilities solely for evaluation and treatment. Restricted access areas do not include common areas of egress and ingress open to the general public;

(d) That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age; or

(e) The restricted access areas of a commercial service airport designated in the airport security plan approved by the federal transportation security administration, including passenger screening checkpoints at or beyond the point at which a passenger initiates the screening process. These areas do not include airport drives, general parking areas and walkways, and shops and areas of the terminal that are outside the screening checkpoints and that are normally open to unscreened passengers or visitors to the airport. Any restricted access area shall be clearly indicated by prominent signs indicating that firearms and other weapons are prohibited in the area.

(2) Cities, towns, counties, and other municipalities may enact laws and ordinances:

(a) Restricting the discharge of firearms in any portion of their respective jurisdictions where there is a reasonable likelihood that humans, domestic animals, or property will be jeopardized. Such laws and ordinances shall not abridge the right of the individual guaranteed by Article I, section 24 of the state Constitution to bear arms in defense of self or others; and

(b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:

(i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.070 or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060; or

(ii) Any showing, demonstration, or lecture involving the exhibition of firearms.

(3)(a) Cities, towns, and counties may enact ordinances restricting the areas in their respective jurisdictions in which firearms may be sold, but, except as provided in (b) of this subsection, a business selling firearms may not be treated more restrictively than other businesses located within the same zone. An ordinance requiring the cessation of business within a zone shall not have a shorter grandfather period for businesses selling firearms than for any other businesses within the zone.

(b) Cities, towns, and counties may restrict the location of a business selling firearms to not less than five hundred feet from primary or secondary school grounds, if the business has a storefront, has hours during which it is open for business, and posts advertisements or signs observable to passersby that firearms are available for sale. A business selling firearms that exists as of the date a restriction is enacted under this subsection (3)(b) shall be grandfathered according to existing law.

(4) Violations of local ordinances adopted under subsection (2) of this section must have the same penalty as provided for by state law.

(5) The perimeter of the premises of any specific location covered by subsection (1) of this section shall be posted at reasonable intervals to alert the public as to the existence of any law restricting the possession of firearms on the premises.

(6) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

(a) A person engaged in military activities sponsored by the federal or state governments, while engaged in official duties;

(b) Law enforcement personnel, except that subsection (1)(b) of this section does apply to a law enforcement officer who is present at a courthouse building as a party to an action under chapter 10.14, 10.99, or 26.50 RCW, or an action under Title 26 RCW where any party has alleged the existence of domestic violence as defined in RCW 26.50.010; or

(c) Security personnel while engaged in official duties.

(7) Subsection (1)(a) of this section does not apply to a person licensed pursuant to RCW 9.41.070 who, upon entering the place or facility, directly and promptly proceeds to the administrator of the facility or the administrator's designee and obtains written permission to possess the firearm while on the premises or checks his or her firearm. The person may reclaim the firearms upon leaving but must immediately and directly depart from the place or facility.

(8) Subsection (1)(c) of this section does not apply to any administrator or employee of the facility or to any person who, upon entering the place or facility, directly and promptly proceeds to the administrator of the facility or the administrator's designee and obtains written permission to possess the firearm while on the premises.

(9) Subsection (1)(d) of this section does not apply to the proprietor of the premises or his or her employees while engaged in their employment.

(10) Any person violating subsection (1) of this section is guilty of a gross misdemeanor.

(11) "Weapon" as used in this section means any firearm, explosive as defined in RCW 70.74.010, or instrument or weapon listed in RCW 9.41.250.

[2008 c 33 § 1. Prior: 2004 c 116 § 1; 2004 c 16 § 1; 1994 sp.s. c 7 § 429; 1993 c 396 § 1; 1985 c 428 § 2.]

(Emphasis mine)



RCW 42.20.100
Failure of duty by public officer a misdemeanor.



Whenever any duty is enjoined by law upon any public officer or other person holding any public trust or employment, their wilful neglect to perform such duty, except where otherwise specially provided for, shall be a misdemeanor.

[1909 c 249 § 16; RRS § 2268. Prior: Code 1881 § 889; 1854 p 90 § 82.]

Notes:
Official misconduct by public servant: RCW 9A.80.010.


RCW 9A.80.010
Official misconduct.



(1) A public servant is guilty of official misconduct if, with intent to obtain a benefit or to deprive another person of a lawful right or privilege:

(a) He intentionally commits an unauthorized act under color of law; or

(b) He intentionally refrains from performing a duty imposed upon him by law.

(2) Official misconduct is a gross misdemeanor.

[1975-'76 2nd ex.s. c 38 § 17; 1975 1st ex.s. c 260 § 9A.80.010.]

Notes:
Effective date -- Severability -- 1975-'76 2nd ex.s. c 38: See notes following RCW 9A.08.020.


RCW 9A.08.020
Liability for conduct of another — Complicity.



(1) A person is guilty of a crime if it is committed by the conduct of another person for which he is legally accountable.

(2) A person is legally accountable for the conduct of another person when:

(a) Acting with the kind of culpability that is sufficient for the commission of the crime, he causes an innocent or irresponsible person to engage in such conduct; or

(b) He is made accountable for the conduct of such other person by this title or by the law defining the crime; or

(c) He is an accomplice of such other person in the commission of the crime.

(3) A person is an accomplice of another person in the commission of a crime if:

(a) With knowledge that it will promote or facilitate the commission of the crime, he

(i) solicits, commands, encourages, or requests such other person to commit it; or

(ii) aids or agrees to aid such other person in planning or committing it; or

(b) His conduct is expressly declared by law to establish his complicity.

(4) A person who is legally incapable of committing a particular crime himself may be guilty thereof if it is committed by the conduct of another person for which he is legally accountable, unless such liability is inconsistent with the purpose of the provision establishing his incapacity.

(5) Unless otherwise provided by this title or by the law defining the crime, a person is not an accomplice in a crime committed by another person if:

(a) He is a victim of that crime; or

(b) He terminates his complicity prior to the commission of the crime, and either gives timely warning to the law enforcement authorities or otherwise makes a good faith effort to prevent the commission of the crime.

(6) A person legally accountable for the conduct of another person may be convicted on proof of the commission of the crime and of his complicity therein, though the person claimed to have committed the crime has not been prosecuted or convicted or has been convicted of a different crime or degree of crime or has an immunity to prosecution or conviction or has been acquitted.


RCW 9A.36.070
Coercion.



(1) A person is guilty of coercion if by use of a threat he compels or induces a person to engage in conduct which the latter has a legal right to abstain from, or to abstain from conduct which he has a legal right to engage in.

(2) "Threat" as used in this section means:

(a) To communicate, directly or indirectly, the intent immediately to use force against any person who is present at the time; or

(b) Threats as defined in *RCW 9A.04.110(25) (a), (b), or (c).

(3) Coercion is a gross misdemeanor.

[1975 1st ex.s. c 260 § 9A.36.070.]
 

Deleted_User

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The best laid plans by mice and men...
First I hope you will not be delayed in getting to your scheduled hearing and that by adding an addition factor into things may well throw a wrench into the program not because of the law but who you are dealing with.

I would go about normal daily activity and go through the process.
A note on the issue of "Sterile" is over kill, just because you have ID does not mean you have to show ID.

This is what we have to deal with

As mentioned above they could refuse to accept you lock box as they are not mandated to accept, then you have to do something with it, back to the car if they will not let you carrying into the secure area which they will likely not allow.

Good Luck Goose I am looking forward to hearing about your outing :)

This is a place that's time and time again not followed the letter of the law. I will be carrying normally my carry, then lock it and present the box. If they don't take it, kewl. I do not plan to take a car as the bus runs downtown so putting the box "in the car" isn't an option. They can take the sidearm instead and I'll take the box. I'm not prepared to just say F#$%^ you and walk. I'm testing a theory it all. Thanks for the wish of luck. I did learn something in the past ... always have a backup plan.

I do, however, appreciate the response. It is giving me something to think about. I'm thinking ... Teriyaki!
 
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Deleted_User

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Goose, you should take a friend to video, but not letting on that he is with you, or that he is recording.

I've thought about having Ani video it. There will be 6 of us entering at once, just one OC! I know the voice recorder will be running. I need the gogoDawgs video cam. That thing is slick and really incognito!
 

Stryker

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Messages
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Good luck to ya Goose! I'll be showing up Monday morning for jury duty. If I'm lucky, the routine will be established and documented soon. Very interesting idea of yours, the lock box and all.

Government is not the solution. Government is the problem.
 

amlevin

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Messages
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North of Seattle, Washington, USA
Good luck to ya Goose! I'll be showing up Monday morning for jury duty. If I'm lucky, the routine will be established and documented soon. Very interesting idea of yours, the lock box and all.

Government is not the solution. Government is the problem.

You forgot to add the "Ronald Regan" at the end of the Quote you used.
 

Deleted_User

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ID Demanded @ County-City building or NO ENTRY for Open Carriers!

I had a court hearing @ 9am and decided to try to enter around 8:15. I was at the wrong door and went to the second floor. I had Ani inform the security lady that I had a firearm to check in. With-in 5 minutes, Officer Minturn (PCSD) came and so it began.

Me: Good Morning Officer
LEO: morning. May I see your Pistol License please?
Me: I do not have my CPL on me. My CPL is not needed. This is an Open Carry.
LEO: May I see a picture ID please?
Me: I don’t … see why you need it.
LEO: I need an ID. Without ID, no OC can enter the building.
Me: I am reaching for my ID (I am still armed, so I turn my strong side to him so he can see what I am doing clearly) Let me ask this clearly. Are you telling me without a picture ID, no OCer will be allowed to enter this building?
LEO: That is correct. It is the building rules.
Me: It is against state law.

He tried to TAKE my WA ID and I demanded it back, stating I don't surrender my ID to anyone. He said no ID, no check in. I gave him my VA ID instead. He stated they use the picture so show I am that person. I said this little #5 card says I am that person.

We look at each other for a minute. He then acknowledges the SERPA and I told him just press the button. I, at this time, gave him permission to remove my weapon as he was going to store it.

Me: Please put it in the lockbox provided. I don’t want it in a bag, envelope, or anywhere else. I want my firearm protected please.

He does so and gives me a card. It says my locker is #5. I got no key

After being done, I came back to the security checkpoint and told them I needed to retrieve property from locker 5. After 15 minutes passed, Ani went back inside. She is told an incident occurred. It may be a few. All Officers are busy. Then 30 minutes passes. I looked inside. She said she called again. Then 45 minutes passes. I am pacing and Ani is angry. After exactly 1 hour passes, Officer Minturn approached with a paper bag and my lockbox. He says sorry, we’ve been busy as an ambulance is driving up / fire truck.

Me: I would like to rearm here.
LEO: Where did you park?
Me: I took the bus. I have no car here.
LEO: You took the bus? Ok. I will reholster it and you can put the belt on.
Me: I will allow you to reholster it AFTER I have an empty holster on my belt in the interest of safety.

After the usual if you carry your CPL this won’t happen speech, I leave. The lockbox was a GREAT idea and worked, but the rest of this makes me want to scream! Voice recordings are VERY unclear since I forgot Ani had my recorder the entire time and was inside when I was with the officer.

I want to write to someone about this. I can ALMOST understand the 1 hour wait if someone got hurt, but the DENYING entry to an open carrier part is unacceptable.
 
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Bill Starks

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I have a spare audio recorder for you to borrow and if you give me a heads up I can loan you the "Muvi" video recorder (like GoGo Dawgs has).
 

Stryker

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Good to hear that they let you keep your firearm loaded in your lockbox. Too bad it had to come to that, but far better than a paper bag full of bullets on a public sidewalk.

I would be a bit hesitant to have a conversation with the officer that stated that I don't have a CPL with me and that I am taking the bus. Since you must have the CPL to take the bus, the officer may know that you are not telling the whole truth. Just sayin'.

You checked in on the second floor. Is that entrance on the back/West side of the building on Yakima Ave? I 'walked' all the way around the building with Google maps, but didn't see another obvious entrance.
 

Deleted_User

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Good to hear that they let you keep your firearm loaded in your lockbox. Too bad it had to come to that, but far better than a paper bag full of bullets on a public sidewalk.

I would be a bit hesitant to have a conversation with the officer that stated that I don't have a CPL with me and that I am taking the bus. Since you must have the CPL to take the bus, the officer may know that you are not telling the whole truth. Just sayin'.

You checked in on the second floor. Is that entrance on the back/West side of the building on Yakima Ave? I 'walked' all the way around the building with Google maps, but didn't see another obvious entrance.

I didn't lie, I didn't have my CPL. My wife did :) I specifically told him I don't have my CPL on me. :)

Yes, it was not the Tacoma Ave entrance, it was the back one on the 2nd floor. There are signs saying Jurors from a specific time and all that. I believe it's the Yakima entrance. We first tried the Tacoma entrance (1st Floor) and we were told to go upstairs.

I have a spare audio recorder for you to borrow and if you give me a heads up I can loan you the "Muvi" video recorder (like GoGo Dawgs has).

I just need to not give mine to Ani :(
 
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OlGutshotWilly

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Dean,
WTF??

Finally a thread with some constructive action and feedback instead of rampant arguing and name calling and you post this.

You need to get some sleep after coming off of long shifts before being allowed to touch the send button ...

...--Moderated edited--
--Deleted personal attack--


These threads are like the TV..........if you don't like it, change channels or turn it off.
 
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