• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

We are doomed.

Eeyore

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2007
Messages
551
Location
the meanest city in the stupidest state
I’m very depressed today. Here are three reasons why:

1. One of my aviation forums included a link to this story about a fighter jet “buzzing” Cal Berkely: http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...t-a-pilot-saying-hello-to-his-brother-at-cal/ The Navy is investigating, and obviously low-altitude antics over populated areas are a big no-no. But what caught my eye was this near the end of the article:

A local resident identified as JG wrote: “What happened this afternoon terrified me and my children. They were in their classrooms at BHS and Longfellow the the plane [sic] screamed over their heads. In my younger child’s class, children began screaming out of fear.”

Seriously? There are two ways to interpret JG’s statement, and both of them are pathetic. Either JG is exaggerating/lying to justify her outrage, or she and/or her kids’ teachers have failed to properly teach her children how to react to unexpected stimuli. When I was a kid, a fighter jet roaring over my first-grade classroom would’ve been met with cries of “Cool!”--at least from most of the boys. So much for “Jet noise—the sound of freedom.”

2. One of my wife’s friends is leading a protest movement against an “active shooter” drill at her kids’ school. She thinks it’s horrible that the school would do this and terrify her kids. (Her answer, of course, is to outlaw all guns. That will fix everything.) My wife argued that, as sad as it is, school shootings are a real-world threat these days, and ignoring that reality won’t make it go away. A calm, reasoned talk with the kids stating that it’s very unlikely (just like a fire or tornado) and preparing for it doesn’t mean it’s going to happen would probably make the kids OK. And somehow, fire drills, tornado drills, and even baby boomers’ “duck and cover” drills are not nearly so horrifying to this woman. My wife has tried to point out the many fallacies (how is the remote possibility of an isolated shooting more terrifying than the remote possibility of total nuclear Armageddon?), but her friend has her indignant hysteria field at full power and no logic can penetrate it.

There’s no telling in these two cases if the kids were genuinely terrified, or they just reacted to the terror displayed by the so-called “adults” in their lives. But apparently, these “adults” never learned to cope with the reality that there are dangers and unpleasantness in the world, and now they’re passing their handicap on to their kids. Nobody’s teaching them to pull their boots on, face their fears, and get on with their lives, because there’s no magic fairy dust that will guarantee a pleasant, comfortable life.

3. Yesterday I listened to a call-in radio show discussing Florida’s proposed legislation to allow concealed carry on college campuses. The host was remarkably unbiased, and the guest (a law professor) discussed the current state of affairs and the pros and cons of the issue very frankly. Several of the callers were “horrified, just horrified” that anyone would even consider this, that it was being discussed at all. That was the sum total of their argument; once they decided they were horrified they consciously or unconsciously ruled out any further consideration of the case.

IMHO, these are all illustrations of how many Americans no longer value self-reliance, independence, and rational thought. It really saddens me that American society has fallen so far. Our ancestors took risks. They left their homes and crossed the ocean in tiny wooden ships to live in the wilderness. They settled the west with only what a Conestoga wagon could carry. No health care, no internet, no social security. Now we’re nothing but coddled children, afraid of everything. I knew the “American Empire” would fall someday, but I had no idea it would come so soon.
 

HPmatt

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
1,468
Location
Dallas
Saw that article too - was sorry that they didn't bomb and strafe Bezerkeley. Brings back fond memories of WWRRD - what would Ronald Reagan do? Send in the national guard!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla

MNMGoneShooting

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
Messages
144
Location
King George, VA
I’m very depressed today. Here are three reasons why:

1. One of my aviation forums included a link to this story about a fighter jet “buzzing” Cal Berkely: http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...t-a-pilot-saying-hello-to-his-brother-at-cal/ The Navy is investigating, and obviously low-altitude antics over populated areas are a big no-no. But what caught my eye was this near the end of the article:



Seriously? There are two ways to interpret JG’s statement, and both of them are pathetic. Either JG is exaggerating/lying to justify her outrage, or she and/or her kids’ teachers have failed to properly teach her children how to react to unexpected stimuli. When I was a kid, a fighter jet roaring over my first-grade classroom would’ve been met with cries of “Cool!”--at least from most of the boys. So much for “Jet noise—the sound of freedom.”

2. One of my wife’s friends is leading a protest movement against an “active shooter” drill at her kids’ school. She thinks it’s horrible that the school would do this and terrify her kids. (Her answer, of course, is to outlaw all guns. That will fix everything.) My wife argued that, as sad as it is, school shootings are a real-world threat these days, and ignoring that reality won’t make it go away. A calm, reasoned talk with the kids stating that it’s very unlikely (just like a fire or tornado) and preparing for it doesn’t mean it’s going to happen would probably make the kids OK. And somehow, fire drills, tornado drills, and even baby boomers’ “duck and cover” drills are not nearly so horrifying to this woman. My wife has tried to point out the many fallacies (how is the remote possibility of an isolated shooting more terrifying than the remote possibility of total nuclear Armageddon?), but her friend has her indignant hysteria field at full power and no logic can penetrate it.

There’s no telling in these two cases if the kids were genuinely terrified, or they just reacted to the terror displayed by the so-called “adults” in their lives. But apparently, these “adults” never learned to cope with the reality that there are dangers and unpleasantness in the world, and now they’re passing their handicap on to their kids. Nobody’s teaching them to pull their boots on, face their fears, and get on with their lives, because there’s no magic fairy dust that will guarantee a pleasant, comfortable life.

3. Yesterday I listened to a call-in radio show discussing Florida’s proposed legislation to allow concealed carry on college campuses. The host was remarkably unbiased, and the guest (a law professor) discussed the current state of affairs and the pros and cons of the issue very frankly. Several of the callers were “horrified, just horrified” that anyone would even consider this, that it was being discussed at all. That was the sum total of their argument; once they decided they were horrified they consciously or unconsciously ruled out any further consideration of the case.

IMHO, these are all illustrations of how many Americans no longer value self-reliance, independence, and rational thought. It really saddens me that American society has fallen so far. Our ancestors took risks. They left their homes and crossed the ocean in tiny wooden ships to live in the wilderness. They settled the west with only what a Conestoga wagon could carry. No health care, no internet, no social security. Now we’re nothing but coddled children, afraid of everything. I knew the “American Empire” would fall someday, but I had no idea it would come so soon.

The wind blows over 30mph; the children "are horrified!"
A tractor-trailer upshifts for engine braking; the children "cower in fear"
A humming bird accidentally hits a window; the children are placed in a corner until the "all safe" is called
Miley Cyrus video comes on TV; the children and adults say "Cool!"

The ONLY time I can remember we had to worry about "cowering" was during the school-drills for Russia attack (like our desk would save us from THE bomb).

And that was when:
- I could get up at 7am and hit the neighborhood until dark
- I could stay at home alone at 5 years old
- I could play with my BB gun without worrying about getting "called in"
- I could have playing cards in the spoke of my bike without "causing alarm"

Fully agree with OP. Sickening - our ancestors are saying, "Huh?" to their g-g-g-g-grandchildren.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
The wind blows over 30mph; the children "are horrified!"
A tractor-trailer upshifts for engine braking; the children "cower in fear"
A humming bird accidentally hits a window; the children are placed in a corner until the "all safe" is called
Miley Cyrus video comes on TV; the children and adults say "Cool!"

The ONLY time I can remember we had to worry about "cowering" was during the school-drills for Russia attack (like our desk would save us from THE bomb).

And that was when:
- I could get up at 7am and hit the neighborhood until dark
- I could stay at home alone at 5 years old
- I could play with my BB gun without worrying about getting "called in"
- I could have playing cards in the spoke of my bike without "causing alarm"

Fully agree with OP. Sickening - our ancestors are saying, "Huh?" to their g-g-g-g-grandchildren.
So you are the problem. Figured it was someone that I knew, but never would have guessed you :p
 

since9

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,964
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
I wasn't able to find published crosswind/tailwind capabilities, but I note that all B-52 landing bogies are steerable, and this impressive video of a B-52 ~20° crab.

Good guess. :)


Fairford is a FUN TDY location. I flew that tail number about 18 years before that video was taken. :)


All those electronic displays are hilarious! We didn't have 'em. Just the EVS screens, which we largely ignored during landings as they didn't provide any significant information.

The ONLY time I can remember we had to worry about "cowering" was during the school-drills for Russia attack (like our desk would save us from THE bomb).

Wasn't designed to. Hiding under desks helps protect you from falling lights, ceiling tiles, bricks, and debris kicked up by the shock wave. The "survivable area" where you can expect this is a donut ring extending from the smaller interior "death zone" to the edge where the blast effects would diminish until all they did was rattle windows.

The area covered by this donut is many times the area of the death zone. THAT'S why you practiced hiding under your desks. In a nuclear strike, if a bomb affects you at all, you're much more likely to be in this much larger "survivable area" than you are in the "death zone."
 
Last edited:

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Having lived on Treasure Island and being subject to a week per year of the Blue Angels behaving as through TI was still a naval base, I must disagree with "jets = sound of freedom" in the most stringent terms.

Take the Blue Angels, for instance. The Blue Angels fly for the sole purpose of propaganda. They fly at taxpayer expense, using money stolen without consent, and spent without the purview of those to whom that money rightfully belongs. They flagrantly disregard private homes and private property; on Treasure Island routinely breaking windows with absurdly low flyovers (far lower than are permitted over residential areas, but it's OK because TI *used* to be a Naval Base), and in other communities even losing planes and sending jet parts into private residences.

All of this is done by force and without consent, for the purpose not of combatting any threat, but to teach weak-minded children like the one you once were (and still are, apparently) that "jets = cool! = "sound of freedom!", to bolster jingoism, and to instill useless emotional attachment t o military-industrial excess in the minds of youth and adult children.

That's your idea of freedom? Really? You, sir, have a twisted definition of the word.

The best thing that could possibly happen for freedom at this point is the peaceful, evolutionary end of the "American Empire", which should never have been the goal of a supposedly "free" country.
 
Last edited:

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
"Flyovers" are great. My kids, both boys, love them...now. Later, who knows.

I grew up around them, Shaw AFB, the luster quickly fades...trust me. What can you do, call and complain? I was told that Sunday is a day off for the pilots...so there ya go, problem solved, complaint addressed.

California residents should not be used as any sort of bench mark for the sentiments of the vast majority of We The People.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
I grew up on the ranch across US-101 (still visible as the green space) from the Moffett NAS (now FA) runways and watched everything from blimps to Blackbirds fly.
Stood next to a chain link fence back when this funny looking plane was wobbling back and forth, hovering a few tens of feet above the ground. After a few minutes it tilted over too far to one side and hit the ground real hard, pieces and part flying everywhere. No flames though.

The V-22 before it was a V-22. My dad worked there, Moffett, and told his buddies over the BBQ grill one day after that..."That thing is a death trap, you won't catch me in that thing, big waste of our money."
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
3,431
Location
northern wis
Even at my age when the fighter fly over from Yuma's MCAS I like looking at them. They just had their annual air show here went and watched a good time.

One of left's/anti's goals is to turn this country into a nation of wimps.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
Having lived on Treasure Island and being subject to a week per year of the Blue Angels behaving as through TI was still a naval base, I must disagree with "jets = sound of freedom" in the most stringent terms.

Take the Blue Angels, for instance. The Blue Angels fly for the sole purpose of propaganda. They fly at taxpayer expense, using money stolen without consent, and spent without the purview of those to whom that money rightfully belongs. They flagrantly disregard private homes and private property; on Treasure Island routinely breaking windows with absurdly low flyovers (far lower than are permitted over residential areas, but it's OK because TI *used* to be a Naval Base), and in other communities even losing planes and sending jet parts into private residences.

All of this is done by force and without consent, for the purpose not of combatting any threat, but to teach weak-minded children like the one you once were (and still are, apparently) that "jets = cool! = "sound of freedom!", to bolster jingoism, and to instill useless emotional attachment t o military-industrial excess in the minds of youth and adult children.

That's your idea of freedom? Really? You, sir, have a twisted definition of the word.

The best thing that could possibly happen for freedom at this point is the peaceful, evolutionary end of the "American Empire", which should never have been the goal of a supposedly "free" country.

I share the same sentiments.
 

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
I share the same sentiments.

So do I.
But I do have to say watching is fun. When I was a young adult on the Iwakuni, Japan Marine base I used to go watch the planes take off and land. I would go sit on a burm about 25 yards from the main taxi way and take pictures of all the cool planes. F-18s, F-14s, F-16s, A-10s Lear Jets painted bright orange (some sort of rescue spotter?). It was a blast. I'm sure these days it would cause some kind of indefinite detention if someone tried that.
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
So do I.
But I do have to say watching is fun. When I was a young adult on the Iwakuni, Japan Marine base I used to go watch the planes take off and land. I would go sit on a burm about 25 yards from the main taxi way and take pictures of all the cool planes. F-18s, F-14s, F-16s, A-10s Lear Jets painted bright orange (some sort of rescue spotter?). It was a blast. I'm sure these days it would cause some kind of indefinite detention if someone tried that.

Watching planes is fun if you want to watch planes. No doubt about that. There's nothing wrong with airshows per se (especially if they're for-profit).
 

XD40sc

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Messages
402
Location
NC
Merely the governments training of citizens to "be afraid, be very afraid" and that requires that you surrender your rights and freedoms so we can protect you. It started with Bush and the color coded fear meter, and has continued without letup.
 
Top