The Tale of Henrico - Chapter 2 in a Ferry Tale - Arrested for following the law

[Grapeshot]

I think the part of this story that cuts me to the heart centers on the 3 year old son. Don't know if scouser was arrested in front of his son or not, but even if not, 3 year olds are pretty sharp when it comes to missing daddy.

What does mommy say the next morning when daddy isn't around?

"I'm sorry son, your daddy was taken to jail by a bad police man who decided not to do his job right. He wanted to be mean to daddy because he did something that was OK to do, but the police man didn't like."

No matter how this turns out, that boy's innocent view of a world where the police are our friends is forever destroyed.

I hope that guy is handing out smiley-stickers at Walmart until he's 85 years old.

TFred

And forced to ear a sign like this:

Actions/cases like this cheat everyone from 3 yo to 100 yo.

 

[Grapeshot]

Grape, I am not sure what you mean by this but it is my understanding that if said "busybody" had sworn out a statement and they are the complaining party that a LEO can act as an agent of the court and arrest once a warrant is issued.

Like I said, I've been in Va for 2 months before I deployed so I didn't really get a chance to delve into Va law too much... So what I am not sure of is whether or not the DA/CA has to file the paperwork for charges before a warrant can be issued.

Example: In Texas I filed bigamy charges against my ex-wife in Texas (Looooooooooong Story - much older and wiser now!!). I had to swear out a statement at the PD, provide substantiating evidence and show some form of fraud in order or the DA to file. The DA filed the charges and the warrant was issued based on my complaint. Not sure if that is how it works in Va, yet.

Believing that: without at least a sworn statement from an eye witness and some corroborating evidence (because I don't play he said she said b*ll-S), there is no RAS, no PC.... Hell! No reason to even think about the gentleman sitting in his car...

Please correct me if I am wrong.

In Virginia the complainant is the state. The parties having knowledge thereof are the complaining/state's witnesses.

We also do not have "District Attorney's" who according to my understanding make charges AND prosecute. We have magistrates who perfect charges and Commonwealth Attorneys that prosecute. Two separate levels - either of which could have denied to proceed.

Other than that, I think we see/understand the problem in the same light.

 

[peter nap]

In Virginia the complainant is the state. The parties having knowledge thereof are the complaining/state's witnesses.

We also do not have "District Attorney's" who according to my understanding make charges AND prosecute. We have magistrates who perfect charges and Commonwealth Attorneys that prosecute. Two separate levels - either of which could have denied to proceed.

Other than that, I think we see/understand the problem in the same light.

Just to add a little to that...a Magistrate is a judge and he needs evidence presented before issuing a warrant. A Citizen asking for a warrant usually fills out a state form called a criminal complaint and swears to it.

From what I understand, a Police officer does not have to follow the same process and can just ask for the warrant verbally.

Very few Magistrates ever question the Officer's motives and the warrants are almost automatic.

 

[AFCop]

I think we see/understand the problem in the same light.

Thought so, just wanted to make sure and thanks for the 411. Much appreciated!

 

[palerider116]

I know it's a pain Guys...but as usual, we don't want to release a lot of details yet.
I can tell you this. I tried to get the written complaint from the court and it doesn't appear to exist.

That's very odd. It should be affixed to the court's copy of the warrant. The Commonwealth's Attorney may have it, or if it was typed on a computer at the police station or an electronic affidavit, then Henrico would.

 

[palerider116]

+

Given what I know about law enforcement (although I am still learning Va opposed to Tx), that is what I made an educated guess on... If I had to make another one, I would venture to say the cops (and I use that term loosely) PC Statement is written in 3rd person something to the extent of "Subject was observed" without necessarily saying who observed.. Fry them!! I despise LEOs like that!!!!

A written statement is often taken for many offenses as a way of establishing a complainant or victim. The courts, especially where I am at, view a written statement as hearsay, so the person still has to come in and testify under oath, which is wholly just. The written statement can be used against a person if they write one thing and testify to another.

Scouser will get his day to face the "LEO" and the "witness" in court.

The MOST important written statement is the criminal complaint. The rest of the attending paperwork sent to commonwealth's attorney, to include the IBR, any specific letter format for the CWA, and witness statements, should be accessible to User by filing a motion of discovery unless the CWA has an open door open file policy.

 

[roscoe13]

No matter how this turns out, that boy's innocent view of a world where the police are our friends is forever destroyed.


TFred

A tough, but very important lesson for him to learn...

Roscoe

 

[palerider116]

In Virginia the complainant is the state. The parties having knowledge thereof are the complaining/state's witnesses.

We also do not have "District Attorney's" who according to my understanding make charges AND prosecute. We have magistrates who perfect charges and Commonwealth Attorneys that prosecute. Two separate levels - either of which could have denied to proceed.

Other than that, I think we see/understand the problem in the same light.

Not all offenses are crimes against the the commonwealth. On a criminal complaint, a citizen can affix their name as the complainant. If John Q Public gets a warrant for a trespassing neighbor, then the commonwealth does not have a dog in the fight. The complainant prosecutes the case in court.

When an officer does it, as an agent of a local or state agency, and sworn to uphold state laws, the commonwealth becomes the complainant - in some instances. Crimes prosecuted by the CWA are usually the cases the commonwealth holds near and dear to its heart - all felonies, weapons offenses, drug offenses, certain traffic offenses.

The commonwealth is not a complaint if the officer is charging someone under a local ordinance.

If scouser was charged under the state code, then the commonwealth is the complainant since it is the "victim" as it is considered a "crime against society."

 

[palerider116]

Criminal complaint instructions for attachment.

 

[Grapeshot]

Not all offenses are crimes against the the commonwealth. On a criminal complaint, a citizen can affix their name as the complainant. If John Q Public gets a warrant for a trespassing neighbor, then the commonwealth does not have a dog in the fight. The complainant prosecutes the case in court.

When an officer does it, as an agent of a local or state agency, and sworn to uphold state laws, the commonwealth becomes the complainant - in some instances. Crimes prosecuted by the CWA are usually the cases the commonwealth holds near and dear to its heart - all felonies, weapons offenses, drug offenses, certain traffic offenses.

The commonwealth is not a complaint if the officer is charging someone under a local ordinance.

If scouser was charged under the state code, then the commonwealth is the complainant since it is the "victim" as it is considered a "crime against society."

Scourcer was charged under state code § 18.2-282

I should not have appeared to be generalizing, being all inclusive. My intention was to answer within the context of this thread.

 

[palerider116]

Not a problem Grapeshot. I often go too far in my thought processing.

I'll be more context friendly for this thread!

 

[Grapeshot]

Not a problem Grapeshot. I often go too far in my thought processing.

I'll be more context friendly for this thread!

I wasn't complaining about the detail references - the good lord and skidmark will tell you that I need all of the help I can get

 

[TFred]

Not sure how this fits into the overall puzzle, but as a matter of coincidence, the local Magistrate's office just moved to a new site. This was announced in the newspaper, and the following information was provided by the Fredericksburg City PD spokesperson:

"Citizens who wish to obtain their own warrants should use the services of the magistrate at the new Spotsylvania courthouse site starting on Monday."

ETA: Perhaps this is for that "trespass-type" issue?

TFred

 

[bob888]

And forced to ear a sign like this:

Actions/cases like this cheat everyone from 3 yo to 100 yo.

Is it me, or is this the intersection of Leesburg Pike (Route 7) and Gallows Rd in Tyson's Corner?

It looks a lot like that corner, as I work less than a block from there.

 

[Grapeshot]

Is it me, or is this the intersection of Leesburg Pike (Route 7) and Gallows Rd in Tyson's Corner?

It looks a lot like that corner, as I work less than a block from there.

Good eye - was taken in Virginia, but w/o exact location.

Found it here:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/jessicamisener/17-people-forced-to-hold-signs-as-punishment

 

[grylnsmn]

Good eye - was taken in Virginia, but w/o exact location.

Found it here:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/jessicamisener/17-people-forced-to-hold-signs-as-punishment

If you follow the link they gave there, they have other pictures, which look a lot like Leesburg Pike in Tyson's. It appears to be Leesburg Pike and International Dr (based on the side of the street he appears to be on). If he were on the other side of the street it would be Leesburg Pike and Gallows Rd.

So I'd give bob888 a 95 out of 100.

 

[Glockster]

Not all offenses are crimes against the the commonwealth. On a criminal complaint, a citizen can affix their name as the complainant. If John Q Public gets a warrant for a trespassing neighbor, then the commonwealth does not have a dog in the fight. The complainant prosecutes the case in court.

When an officer does it, as an agent of a local or state agency, and sworn to uphold state laws, the commonwealth becomes the complainant - in some instances. Crimes prosecuted by the CWA are usually the cases the commonwealth holds near and dear to its heart - all felonies, weapons offenses, drug offenses, certain traffic offenses.

The commonwealth is not a complaint if the officer is charging someone under a local ordinance.

If scouser was charged under the state code, then the commonwealth is the complainant since it is the "victim" as it is considered a "crime against society."

Where it gets tricky though is for certain things, if the officer did not directly witness it, they cannot then take it to the magistrate. The actual witness needs to do that. It's like if you tell a LEO that YOU saw a car/driver do something, they have to have seen it. I've been down this road many times where I had to be the one swearing out the complaint for the magistrate to then sign off on, and the Commonwealth became the complainant, and I then became a witness for the Commonwealth. I have been through that process for misdemeanors and traffic, but don't honestly know if felony is the same. My understanding is that the Commonwealth Attorney is only for criminal (which is supported by stating the same on the City of VB CWA site).

 

[Skeptic]

Is the paypal link active yet? As much as I dislike paypal, I haven't sent a paper check in a year or more... not sure where the book is

 

[Baked on Grease]

Is the paypal link active yet? As much as I dislike paypal, I haven't sent a paper check in a year or more... not sure where the book is

Even if you don't have paper checks, your bank can send a check for you (as a bill pay option I believe) Skid laid out a process a page or two back.

Sent from my SCH-I800 using Tapatalk 2

 

[sidestreet]

drdan01, you seem to think that Henrico is going to be fair and play by the rules...,

Where it gets tricky though is for certain things, if the officer did not directly witness it, they cannot then take it to the magistrate. The actual witness needs to do that. It's like if you tell a LEO that YOU saw a car/driver do something, they have to have seen it. I've been down this road many times where I had to be the one swearing out the complaint for the magistrate to then sign off on, and the Commonwealth became the complainant, and I then became a witness for the Commonwealth. I have been through that process for misdemeanors and traffic, but don't honestly know if felony is the same. My understanding is that the Commonwealth Attorney is only for criminal (which is supported by stating the same on the City of VB CWA site).

you can rest assured that they will not, it hasn't even entered their minds. Fairness does not equate to justice, and whatcha you wanna bet their definition of justice, your definition of justice, and what you have to fight to get are three completely different animals. These people are used to having their way, justice, fairness, or what ever you think you're entitled to be damned. They don't like it when you don't cower and beg for mercy, they prefer that you submit and keep feeding their process and moving it along. It's not about serving the public, it's about them serving themselves while you pick up the tab. They love making rules as long as none of them have to follow them, and they get particularly offended when you even intimate that they are also bound by rules. When you read about magistrates pre-signing warrants, cops "testilying", and any number of abuses of power, do you really think they care about rights or constitutions or oaths? If you do, then I think you've got your own "fairy tale" to deal with.

sidestreet

Jeremiah 29 vs. 11-13

we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.