The FLag as a political too1 - JUST WRONG!

[stealthyeliminator]

Allegiance to a flag. Now, that's one I have a hard time wrapping my head around. I mean, what does that really even mean? ... Well, I guess the obvious answer is that it means flag worship (or idolatry, as SVG mentioned).

No thanks, I'll pass on that tea.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Allegiance to a flag. Now, that's one I have a hard time wrapping my head around. I mean, what does that really even mean? ... Well, I guess the obvious answer is that it means flag worship.

No thanks, I'll pass on that tea.

+1 I would think more christians would have the same approach you do.

 

[Citizen]

Allegiance to a flag. Now, that's one I have a hard time wrapping my head around. I mean, what does that really even mean? ... Well, I guess the obvious answer is that it means flag worship.

No thanks, I'll pass on that tea.

Flag worship? Heh, heh, heh. Good point. I like George Carlin's comment: (paraphrase) the flag is a symbol, and I leave symbols to the symbol-minded. (say it out loud to yourself)

I think the sneaky point, though, is less "...to the flag" and more "...and the republic for which it stands." I think that was the devious part. Before anybody howls, I grew up saying the Pledge of Allegiance in school. In fact, in elementary school, I recited the Lords Prayer with the rest of the class. So, having been there, I have standing to evaluate the Pledge of Allegiance. Back to the devious part. I think the devious part is connecting the flag and the government ("republic for which it stands").

So, why have a bunch of kids pledge allegiance to a government? Or, adults for that matter? My first question is, "Why? Are you planning something to which you think I will object such that you want to secure my allegiance before the fact?" Allegiance is nothing more than before-the-fact agreement to go along with government. So, I ask myself, "Really?" I've spent nearly a decade penetrating the fog, lies, evasions, red-herrings, strategic silence, and spin government has fed to me all my life. Now that I have worked my way through that BS, to the degree that I have--at great expense in personal time, thank you very much--it is no wonder they wanted my before-the-fact-agreement, my allegiance to the republic (government).

And, why pledge allegiance to the flag at all? The flag is the symbol of the specialized corporation known as the federal government. Why mention the flag at all? Why not just "I pledge allegiance to the federal government." There is no reason at all to fog up the entity to which allegiance is being pledged--unless the motive is to fog it up.

It really boils down to getting people to pledge allegiance to the federal government.

When you get right down to it, its just plain nasty. No. Its worse than that. Its North Korean.

 

[georg jetson]

+1 I would think more christians would have the same approach you do.

More of us do. I pledge allegiance to good olé J.C. Thanks for thinking this correctly.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

More of us do. I pledge allegiance to good olé J.C. Thanks for thinking this correctly.

+1

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Flag worship? Heh, heh, heh. Good point. I like George Carlin's comment: (paraphrase) the flag is a symbol, and I leave symbols to the symbol-minded. (say it out loud to yourself)

I think the sneaky point, though, is less "...to the flag" and more "...and the republic for which it stands." I think that was the devious part. Before anybody howls, I grew up saying the Pledge of Allegiance in school. In fact, in elementary school, I recited the Lords Prayer with the rest of the class. So, having been there, I have standing to evaluate the Pledge of Allegiance. Back to the devious part. I think the devious part is connecting the flag and the government ("republic for which it stands").

So, why have a bunch of kids pledge allegiance to a government? Or, adults for that matter? My first question is, "Why? Are you planning something to which you think I will object such that you want to secure my allegiance before the fact?" Allegiance is nothing more than before-the-fact agreement to go along with government. So, I ask myself, "Really?" I've spent nearly a decade penetrating the fog, lies, evasions, red-herrings, strategic silence, and spin government has fed to me all my life. Now that I have worked my way through that BS, to the degree that I have--at great expense in personal time, thank you very much--it is no wonder they wanted my before-the-fact-agreement, my allegiance to the republic (government).

And, why pledge allegiance to the flag at all? The flag is the symbol of the specialized corporation known as the federal government. Why mention the flag at all? Why not just "I pledge allegiance to the federal government." There is no reason at all to fog up the entity to which allegiance is being pledged--unless the motive is to fog it up.

It really boils down to getting people to pledge allegiance to the federal government.

When you get right down to it, its just plain nasty. No. Its worse than that. Its North Korean.

Definitley designed to put the nation above the individual. Also sneaky lines like "one nation, indivisible" a slap in the face of federation and the right to leave a government one does not consent to.

 

[utbagpiper]

But then some don't think wine is blood or crackers flesh.

How quickly rank bigotries come to the surface.

Most Christians don't believe in transubstantiation. That is primarily, if not exclusively, a Catholic belief. But since you've directed your bigotries--however unintentionally and ignorantly--toward our Catholic neighbors, this seems especially appropriate for you.

So, here is your sign.

 

[utbagpiper]

I think the sneaky point, though, is less "...to the flag" and more "...and the republic for which it stands." I think that was the devious part. Before anybody howls, I grew up saying the Pledge of Allegiance in school. In fact, in elementary school, I recited the Lords Prayer with the rest of the class. So, having been there, I have standing to evaluate the Pledge of Allegiance. Back to the devious part. I think the devious part is connecting the flag and the government ("republic for which it stands").

I see some are still trying to draw some complete distinction and disconnect between "the government" and we citizens/voters who choose elected government officials.

Our system of government is far from perfect. Any given congress or president has many flaws. But from everything I've seen, it beats anarchy hands down.

I have the means and ability to live almost anywhere in the world. I'm smart enough to learn another language if required. I have marketable skills and can develop new skills if needed. I live here by choice because I believe it is the best place to live in the world when government and culture are given very heavy weight. There are improvements to be made. Always will be so long as mortals are tasked with living together in peace. But I sincerely believe that our system of government provides the greatest opportunity to make those improvements and to secure to ourselves and our posterity, the blessings of liberty.

I will always remember the line from a comic who observed, "Ain't nobody swimming through 90 miles of shark infested water to get out of this country.

It is a shame that a few vocal anarchists feel compelled to turn so many threads into a rant against our government, or even the existence of government. I just want to make clear to anyone reading the thread that such puerile and juvenile sentiments are not reflective of gun owners or OCers generally.

Charles

 

[OC for ME]

I have yet to "converse" with a anarchist on this forum.

 

[stealthyeliminator]

I see some are still trying to draw some complete distinction and disconnect between "the government" and we citizens/voters who choose elected government officials.

Our system of government is far from perfect. Any given congress or president has many flaws. But from everything I've seen, it beats anarchy hands down.

I have the means and ability to live almost anywhere in the world. I'm smart enough to learn another language if required. I have marketable skills and can develop new skills if needed. I live here by choice because I believe it is the best place to live in the world when government and culture are given very heavy weight. There are improvements to be made. Always will be so long as mortals are tasked with living together in peace. But I sincerely believe that our system of government provides the greatest opportunity to make those improvements and to secure to ourselves and our posterity, the blessings of liberty.

I will always remember the line from a comic who observed, "Ain't nobody swimming through 90 miles of shark infested water to get out of this country.

<needless insults redacted>

Charles

This thread started as a rant against government, nobody "turned it into" that. It's a shame that any time a group of members criticize the current government or some aspect of it, you have to chime in with insults and mischaracterizations.

As far as blessings of liberty go, last chart I saw pegged the US in 20th place.

Oh, and if you want in the pot with the government, as your opening line suggests, that's fine, nobody is trying to keep you out.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Flag worship? Heh, heh, heh. Good point. I like George Carlin's comment: (paraphrase) the flag is a symbol, and I leave symbols to the symbol-minded. (say it out loud to yourself)

I think the sneaky point, though, is less "...to the flag" and more "...and the republic for which it stands." I think that was the devious part. Before anybody howls, I grew up saying the Pledge of Allegiance in school. In fact, in elementary school, I recited the Lords Prayer with the rest of the class. So, having been there, I have standing to evaluate the Pledge of Allegiance. Back to the devious part. I think the devious part is connecting the flag and the government ("republic for which it stands").

So, why have a bunch of kids pledge allegiance to a government? Or, adults for that matter? My first question is, "Why? Are you planning something to which you think I will object such that you want to secure my allegiance before the fact?" Allegiance is nothing more than before-the-fact agreement to go along with government. So, I ask myself, "Really?" I've spent nearly a decade penetrating the fog, lies, evasions, red-herrings, strategic silence, and spin government has fed to me all my life. Now that I have worked my way through that BS, to the degree that I have--at great expense in personal time, thank you very much--it is no wonder they wanted my before-the-fact-agreement, my allegiance to the republic (government).

And, why pledge allegiance to the flag at all? The flag is the symbol of the specialized corporation known as the federal government. Why mention the flag at all? Why not just "I pledge allegiance to the federal government." There is no reason at all to fog up the entity to which allegiance is being pledged--unless the motive is to fog it up.

It really boils down to getting people to pledge allegiance to the federal government.

When you get right down to it, its just plain nasty. No. Its worse than that. Its North Korean.

Can't find one thing about anarchy here.
I really can't find anything here that would upset anyone other than jingoistic statist who put the Federal government above the state and individuals,,,,,,,
Liberty for all....yea right.

 

[OC for ME]

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/08/19/u-s-falls-to-20th-in-freedom-index/

the united states has fallen to 20th place in the respected human freedom index, produced annually by the cato institute and canada’s fraser institute. The index measures nations on personal, civil and economic freedom. The united states has fallen three spots since barack obama became president.

fyi.

 

[solus]

This thread started as a rant against government, nobody "turned it into" that. It's a shame that any time a group of members criticize the current government or some aspect of it, you have to chime in with insults and mischaracterizations.

As far as blessings of liberty go, last chart I saw pegged the US in 20th place.

Oh, and if you want in the pot with the government, as your opening line suggests, that's fine, nobody is trying to keep you out.

outstanding commentary youtube clip regarding...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFuvLnG6rKw

[h=1]America is NOT the greatest country in the world, anymore.[/h]
ipse

 

[OC for ME]

The display of the flag, half masted or not, by a private citizen could be nothing more than a display of respect for those (perhaps a family member?) who have sacrificed for our country. Condemnation of these citizens is misdirected. Condemn the flag, you also condemn those who hold the flag in high regard, condemn those (typically elected/appointed government employees) who falsely wrap themselves in the flag in the hopes that their misdeeds will be excused.

Could it be that there is a issue only with who half masts the flag, and not a issue with why it is half masted.

 

[Dave_pro2a]

I see some are still trying to draw some complete distinction and disconnect between "the government" and we citizens/voters who


The I just want to make clear to anyone reading the thread that such puerile and juvenile sentiments are not reflective of gun owners or OCers generally.

Charles

That reads like:

Other people's position.

Blah blah blah misrepresentation, rant

Personal insult.

Great rhetorical skills there Utah.

 

[Dave_pro2a]

How quickly rank bigotries come to the surface.

Most Christians don't believe in transubstantiation. That is primarily, if not exclusively, a Catholic belief. But since you've directed your bigotries--however unintentionally and ignorantly--toward our Catholic neighbors, this seems especially appropriate for you.

So, here is your sign.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/853000
Half of all Christians are Catholic.

 

[solus]

snipp.....

Our system of government is far from perfect. snipp..

I just want to make clear to anyone reading the thread that such puerile and juvenile sentiments are not reflective of gun owners or OCers generally.

Charles

well a first...after all the epistle(s) pipper has generated...i can state & I agree with at least one sentence pipper has written.

which unfortunately is negated cuz I wish to state for the public record this mate does not in any way speak for this gun owner & OC'g individual whatsoever!!!

darn pipper, guess it is a wash...

ipse

 

[Freedom1Man]

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/853000
Half of all Christians are Catholic.

One problem, Catholics are not Christians.

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk

 

[utbagpiper]

This thread started as a rant against government, nobody "turned it into" that.

Actually, several have done exactly that.

It's a shame that any time a group of members criticize the current government or some aspect of it, you have to chime in with insults and mischaracterizations.

It is a shame that "some" don't recognize the difference between legitimate critiques, and constant bashing of the very existence of government, silly attempts to completely disconnect our government from our nation and our people, etc.

As for "insults", the rank anti-religious bigotries exhibited by a member ought to garner far more concern from you than my rebukes of anarchists....except for "personality" differences.

As far as blessings of liberty go, last chart I saw pegged the US in 20th place.

Do you believe that? If so, there is no wall keeping you here.

If you don't believe it sufficiently to personally make use of the information in it to gain additional liberties for yourself, why are you posting it

Charles

 

[utbagpiper]

That reads like:

Great comeback, Constanza.

Can we expect two or three more as you think about it a bit longer?