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The FLag as a political too1 - JUST WRONG!

utbagpiper

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I was addressing the original use of the flags. But, if history means nothing to you then please ignore me.

History is often relevant, but so too is current usage. To ignore current convention is a bit like the radical feminist who refuses to marry because of the history of marriage as exchanging ownership of the woman from father to husband, or those who get uptight about Christmas because of its historic ties to pagan celebrations of winter solstice.

Neither the history of flags nor current common usage though really have much to do with my exchange with Citizen. Nobody is disputing the history of flags here.

Charles
 
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Dave_pro2a

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http://www.miamiok.com/news/article_697bf0b9-7cb1-53fc-bd6c-36ce039aa860.html
300 flags that need to be retired.

“We will have a ceremony where we will burn them,” said Roy Woods, a Legionnaire and head of the Veterans Funeral Detail. “It's the proper way to dispose of the flag, besides burying them.

“They have to be burnt with dignity. You cannot burn them in your own trash. A national ceremony must be held to properly dispose of them. It's called retiring the flag.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_Desecration_Amendment

The Flag Desecration Amendment, often referred to as the Flag-burning Amendment, is a proposed constitutional amendment to the United States Constitution that would allow the United States Congress to prohibit statutorily the physical desecration of the flag of the United States. The concept of flag desecration continues to provoke a heated debate over protecting a national symbol, protecting free speech, and protecting the liberty represented by a national symbol.

Now THAT is mental illness.

fire + flag = good [at the same time] fire + flag = bad

Insanity.
 

utbagpiper

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Dave_pro2a;2165321 Now THAT is mental illness. fire + flag = good [at the same time said:
fire + flag = bad

Insanity.

Only for the small minded or those deliberately trying to obfuscate.

Citizen defending himself from violent home invader by shooting him dead = good. Criminal shooting innocent person to steal his car = bad.

Citizen + shooting = good [at the same time] Citizen + shooting = bad.

Intent and context matters. They often matter.

If I beat on your chest and break your rips I'm either guilty of a very violent assault....OR of trying to save your life by performing CPR when your heart has stopped beating.

Breaking into your unattended mountain cabin and eating your canned food is either pretty serious crime...OR entirely forgivable if someone is stranded and in dire need of shelter and food lest they die.

Which isn't to say I necessarily support laws or amendments to ban flag desecration. It is simply pointing out the silliness of your "logic" so-called.

Let's leave the bad logic to the antis. We are capable of far more, regardless of where one comes down on Old Glory.

Charles
 

Dave_pro2a

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Only for the small minded or those deliberately trying to obfuscate.

Citizen defending himself from violent home invader by shooting him dead = good. Criminal shooting innocent person to steal his car = bad.

Citizen + shooting = good [at the same time] Citizen + shooting = bad.

Intent and context matters. They often matter.

If I beat on your chest and break your rips I'm either guilty of a very violent assault....OR of trying to save your life by performing CPR when your heart has stopped beating.

Breaking into your unattended mountain cabin and eating your canned food is either pretty serious crime...OR entirely forgivable if someone is stranded and in dire need of shelter and food lest they die.

Which isn't to say I necessarily support laws or amendments to ban flag desecration. It is simply pointing out the silliness of your "logic" so-called.

Let's leave the bad logic to the antis. We are capable of far more, regardless of where one comes down on Old Glory.

Charles

Human life =/ cloth

Good try though, Utah. (by good, I mean lame)
 
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OC for ME

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... Breaking into your unattended mountain cabin and eating your canned food is either pretty serious crime...OR entirely forgivable if someone is stranded and in dire need of shelter and food lest they die. ...
It, breaking in and eating the food, of another, uninvited, is always a crime. It is the cabin owner's prerogative to forgive, or not.
 

solus

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It, breaking in and eating the food, of another, uninvited, is always a crime. It is the cabin owner's prerogative to forgive, or not.

well said one of the greatest gifts is our compassion towards a situation.

ipse
 

Dave_pro2a

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It, breaking in and eating the food, of another, uninvited, is always a crime. It is the cabin owner's prerogative to forgive, or not.

Locke's positive Right to charity.

The staving man, empty cabin is a classic example. Utah is parroting someone else.

First Treatise of Government said:
“Charity gives every man a Title to so much out of another’s Plenty, as well keep him from extreme want, where he has no means to subsist otherwise."

Cabin example = used by every 2 bit college professor, pretty much everywhere.
 
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solus

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Locke's positive Right to charity.

The staving man, empty cabin is a classic example. Utah is parroting someone else.

Cabin example = used by every 2 bit college professor, pretty much everywhere.

hoand over face.jpg

Philosophy 101 i believe.
 
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utbagpiper

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Ethics vs. Morals: Would you speed and run a red light to get your pregnant wife to the hospital?

Who wouldn't. And who, sitting as either judge or jury would impose any penalty on such conduct if nobody was injured?

However, speed and run a red light just because you don't feel like obeying the law and most sensible folks will quite happily impose a ticket.

Intent matters. Intent is the difference between murder, manslaughter, and justifiable self-defense.

I'm not in favor of an anti-flag-desecration amendment. But it is obvious to anyone with reasoning powers above a 3rd grader what the difference is between respectfully retiring a flag and deliberately desecrating a flag, even if the method of destruction is very similar.

Charles
 

utbagpiper

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Human life =/ cloth

a·nal·o·gy.

[əˈnaləjē]

NOUN

1.a comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification:

Usually covered in junior high English classes. Some may have been absent that day.

Good try though, Utah. (by good, I mean lame

Cabin example = used by every 2 bit college professor, pretty much everywhere.

And every puerile and adolescent 60s throwback child uses the whole "burn flag = good; burn flag = bad" routine you pulled. Which means either someone is too ignorant to realize there is nothing clever about it, or is so small minded as to actually think it is compelling argument.

Good try though, Davey. (by good, I mean lame)

Charles
 

utbagpiper

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Human life =/ cloth

a·nal·o·gy.

[əˈnaləjē]

NOUN

1.a comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification:

Usually covered in junior high English classes. Some may have been absent that day.

Good try though, Utah. (by good, I mean lame

Cabin example = used by every 2 bit college professor, pretty much everywhere.

And every puerile and adolescent 60s throwback child uses the whole "burn flag = good; burn flag = bad" routine you pulled. Which means either someone is too ignorant to realize there is nothing clever about it, or is so small minded as to actually think it is compelling argument.

Good try though, Davey (and your fellow members of the cult of anarchists and other children). (by good, I mean lame)

Charles
 

Citizen

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quoting a wiki article:

The Flag Desecration Amendment, often referred to as the Flag-burning Amendment, is a proposed constitutional amendment to the United States Constitution that would allow the United States Congress to prohibit statutorily the physical desecration of the flag of the United States. The concept of flag desecration continues to provoke a heated debate over protecting a national symbol, protecting free speech, and protecting the liberty represented by a national symbol.

I think the argument about criminalizing government criticism was answered by the disappearance of the Federalist Party after they enacted the Alien and Sedition Acts.

For a little history, in England, prior to the revolution, and in the colonies, it was a crime to write the truth against government if it made the government look bad. It was called libel. In other words, truth was literally not a defense against a charge of libeling the government. Look up the case against Peter Zenger.

The Alien and Sedition Acts contained a similar provision. People went to jail for it. The Federalist Party disappeared as a political force starting with the next election.
 

Dave_pro2a

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a·nal·o·gy.

[əˈnaləjē]

NOUN

1.a comparison between two things, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification:

Usually covered in junior high English classes. Some may have been absent that day.



And every puerile and adolescent 60s throwback child uses the whole "burn flag = good; burn flag = bad" routine you pulled. Which means either someone is too ignorant to realize there is nothing clever about it, or is so small minded as to actually think it is compelling argument.

Good try though, Davey. (by good, I mean lame)

Charles

Edsger W. Dijkstra said:
"One of [the Middle Ages'] characteristics was that 'reasoning by analogy' was rampant; another characteristic was almost total intellectual stagnation, and we now see why the two go together. A reason for mentioning this is to point out that, by developing a keen ear for unwarranted analogies, one can detect a lot of medieval thinking today."

Keep trying Utah.
 
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utbagpiper

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Keep trying Utah.

You too Davey. Do let us know when you have an original thought as opposed to just copying and pasting from those who do think.

And as you well know, I prefer to be addressed as either "Charles" or "utbagpiper". "Utah" is a State, not my name.

Charles
 

Dave_pro2a

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But it is obvious to anyone with reasoning powers above a 3rd grader what the difference is between respectfully retiring a flag and deliberately desecrating a flag, even if the method of destruction is very similar.

Charles

Nope.

But then some don't think wine is blood or crackers flesh.

The flag is cotton.
 

Dave_pro2a

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And every puerile and adolescent 60s throwback child uses the whole "burn flag = good; burn flag = bad" routine you pulled. Which means either someone is too ignorant to realize there is nothing clever about it, or is so small minded as to actually think it is compelling argument.

Good try though, Davey. (by good, I mean lame)

Charles

Well, Utah, the thread topic IS THE FLAG.

So mentioning flag burning is... ON TOPIC.

Duh.

uNzGBa-X_400x400.jpeg
 

Dave_pro2a

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You too Davey. Do let us know when you have an original thought as opposed to just copying and pasting from those who do think.

And as you well know, I prefer to be addressed as either "Charles" or "utbagpiper". "Utah" is a State, not my name.

Charles

http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/182-weak-analogy
Weak Analogy

(also known as: bad analogy, false analogy, faulty analogy, questionable analogy, argument from spurious similarity, false metaphor)

Description: When an analogy is used to prove or disprove an argument, but the analogy is too dissimilar to be effective, that is, it is unlike the argument more than it is like the argument.

I don't need to add my own thoughts. Your analogy is OBVIOUSLY lame.

Cloth < human life

Cotton =/ human life

Your a·nal·o·gy is:
Weak
Fallacious
Lame
Ineffective
Faulty
Et cetera
 
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