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The Empire Strikes Back! "Localities" and "getting guns off the street"

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
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Valhalla
Have new, separate accounts set up at bank and Paypal. Waiting for confirmation from Paypal re verification on bank account. Will also have instructions regarding paper and electronic checks direct to Dan Hawes for this.

As soon as confirmation is received from Paypal we will go "hot" with this on a separate thread - will link it here too.
A few more details will be included - at least to include some of the generalities - not the actual "he said, she said" conversations though.

If you knew all that I've heard, you'd be breathing fire......it is outrageous!



I hope everyone understands how very important it is to stick together in these things.
OC'ers as a group have walked the walk while other groups have just talked.

Skidmark needed help and got it from every corner of the earth. We've always been there to take care of our own in legal and personal crisis. I don't know another body of people that can say that.

As Grapeshot said, it will make your blood boil and it's high time we hit back. I know many won't have a lot to spare but everything and anything helps.

I've found from experience that we can't release a lot of details...in fact, there are details about Skid's case I may never release...but information will be put on here as it is approved and I can tell you now, what has happened to this Gentle man is a crime and there are other cases in the Q.

Before all hell breaks loose, I'd like to give some credit where it's due. Grapeshot is doing what he does best...leading the charge. Good friends are hard to find and I count myself lucky to have Grapeshot as one.

I said one time that when you scraped the gruff off of Skidmark there was a heart there and it was made of gold. He's demonstrated it in spades lately.

Dan Hawes is the Bunduki Mukbawi (Big Double rifle) that keeps us safe.

All the support from the regulars, Sidestreet, Taz, Riverrat (who is about to blow a gasket) and 67gt390fb..is essential to this going strong.
I'm proud to be around such people.
 
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MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
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in front of my computer, WI
Any officer violating any of the provisions of this section shall be guilty of misconduct in office and subject to removal therefrom upon complaint filed by any person in a court of competent jurisdiction.
I like that part. Hope it's applied in the cases under discussion.

Thundar said:
Peter, is this going to be as much fun as the ferry tale?
peter nap said:
'More' is hard to imagine, especially with the ending of the ferry tale & the comical behaviour of the persecutor.

skidmark said:
I guess if being shafted and emotionally torn and tossed is "experience" I have some. Mostly what I have is gratitude to everyone who stepped up and to those who are going to step up once more.
peter nap said:
Skidmark needed help and got it from every corner of the earth.
We've always been there to take care of our own in legal and personal crisis
+1 & amen to both of those. BTDT, got an absolutely mind-blowing amount of support.

I know many won't have a lot to spare but everything and anything helps.
+1 The price of one box of ammo, one hour at the range, one lunch or dinner that you would have eaten out but brown-bagged or made at home.

I said one time that when you scraped the gruff off of Skidmark there was a heart there and it was made of gold.
:lol:
 

FBrinson

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2013
Messages
298
Location
Henrico, VA
I know I am rather new here and I have been quiet since joining this forum, other than the occasional Richmond area open carry post, but I would like to become more active in the group and offer my support in any way needed. Please let me know if there is anything I can do, outside of being an advocate and practitioner of open carry. Financial support is a given, I want to do more.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
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Valhalla
While were at let's look at Mr. Nap - Peter has the uncanny ability to see what others miss and he records it for posterity through the honesty of his lenses - the camera doesn't lie.

We all bring different talents to the table and attempt to see both independently and collectively what the circumstances are.

In this case, we have a gentle man and yes a gentleman of the old school with a family and a young son, whom he plainly adores. He was in route to an OC dinner in Chesterfield County, actually arrived at that dinner and had a pleasant, uneventful meal with friends. Two days later he found that he had been observed in route to the dinner moving his legally carried and stored handgun from his glove compartment only when a Henrico officer arrived to arrest him.

There is more and it only gets worse. Stay tuned.
 

va_tazdad

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Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
1,162
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
Aw shucks

While were at let's look at Mr. Nap - Peter has the uncanny ability to see what others miss and he records it for posterity through the honesty of his lenses - the camera doesn't lie.

We all bring different talents to the table and attempt to see both independently and collectively what the circumstances are.

In this case, we have a gentle man and yes a gentleman of the old school with a family and a young son, whom he plainly adores. He was in route to an OC dinner in Chesterfield County, actually arrived at that dinner and had a pleasant, uneventful meal with friends. Two days later he found that he had been observed in route to the dinner moving his legally carried and stored handgun from his glove compartment only when a Henrico officer arrived to arrest him.

There is more and it only gets worse. Stay tuned.

There are those of us that tend to be a bit more out spoken than others, but the group as a whole works well due to the differences. (Not all of us carry "big guns" or "purdy guns", but all do enjoy freedom and the right to carry)

As a relative newbee, I have enjoyed all I have learned (and that has been a lot) and also understand there is strength in numbers. I will be sure to assist in any manner I can and look forward to seeing Dan in action again to right a terrible wrong to one of our group.
 

Numenor

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2012
Messages
94
Location
Richmond, VA
While were at let's look at Mr. Nap - Peter has the uncanny ability to see what others miss and he records it for posterity through the honesty of his lenses - the camera doesn't lie.

We all bring different talents to the table and attempt to see both independently and collectively what the circumstances are.

In this case, we have a gentle man and yes a gentleman of the old school with a family and a young son, whom he plainly adores. He was in route to an OC dinner in Chesterfield County, actually arrived at that dinner and had a pleasant, uneventful meal with friends. Two days later he found that he had been observed in route to the dinner moving his legally carried and stored handgun from his glove compartment only when a Henrico officer arrived to arrest him.

There is more and it only gets worse. Stay tuned.

Hmmm... from how I understood the law, you could retrieve a firearm and handle it so long as it remained within the confines of the vehicle. I need to be able to take my handgun out of the location it's stored in during certain times, to put it in my holster.
 

peter nap

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Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
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Valhalla
Hmmm... from how I understood the law, you could retrieve a firearm and handle it so long as it remained within the confines of the vehicle. I need to be able to take my handgun out of the location it's stored in during certain times, to put it in my holster.

Doesn't really matter where you handle it. In order to sustain a charge of brandishing there has to be a reasonable fear that you could be shot.
Just seeing one isn't reasonable.

There is a reason the fellow was such a busybody and a reason the cop was so obliging. Both reasons are BS!
 

Numenor

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2012
Messages
94
Location
Richmond, VA
Doesn't really matter where you handle it. In order to sustain a charge of brandishing there has to be a reasonable fear that you could be shot.
Just seeing one isn't reasonable.

There is a reason the fellow was such a busybody and a reason the cop was so obliging. Both reasons are BS!

Glad that my interpretation jives with this at least. Don't know if I can contribute cash to this effort, but if bodies are needed let me know when/where.
 

palerider116

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Nov 14, 2010
Messages
572
Location
Unknown
The Empire Strikes Back! "Localities" and "getting guns off the street"

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1366696790.488664.jpg

Is the subject in the Humvee brandishing?
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
Glad that my interpretation jives with this at least. Don't know if I can contribute cash to this effort, but if bodies are needed let me know when/where.

While financial support always plays a big part in these sorts of things, let me say from experience that emotional support is even more needed and helpful when going through an experience like this one is going to be. Crowds of people showing up to let The Powers That Be know our gentleman is not alone and that WE ARE WATCHING will be as much support as the money needed to get through this. A firm handshake and a knowing look when he is met, and discovering people who think enough to travel a bit out of the way just to show up and do that, as opposed to just being part of the crowd, will be more helpful than you might be able to imagine. It can get mighty dark and lonely under that cloud. Thankfully this group will not allow that to happen.

And on that money note - it's never the single donor that carries the day. It's the combination of $5s, $10s, and $20s that accumulate like compound interest.

Now for the sermon - shut your eyes and scroll down if you do not want to read it.

Think of your contribution as pre-paying any debt you might one day owe to the generosity of others. I used to think I had done that and was covered. I never thought I would need a withdrawal from the karma bank. Well, as we all know, the First National Bank of Karma saw a huge withdrawal that was there only thanks to folks who agree that this sort of thing* is egregious and must be put down like a rabid dog.

And whatever PeterNap may have suggested about a heart of gold - which in reality is just tarnish on the mechanical pump - was wrong. I have x-rays, surgery reports and doctors' statements all proving that whatever I have instead of one is defective and ineffective. Any soft/squishy attributes are from decay.

stay safe.

* -Yes, what has happened is like getting bitten by a rabid dog. We are still at the point of treating each bite without having a vaccine to use to wipe out/control the disease itself. But we are moving in that direction. Your support and assistance in that endeavor will also be needed.
 

Grapeshot

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Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
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Valhalla
--snipped--

In this case, we have a gentle man and yes a gentleman of the old school with a family and a young son, whom he plainly adores. He was in route to an OC dinner in Chesterfield County, actually arrived at that dinner and had a pleasant, uneventful meal with friends. Two days later he found that he had been observed in route to the dinner moving his legally carried and stored handgun from his glove compartment only when a Henrico officer arrived to arrest him.

There is more and it only gets worse. Stay tuned.
This man was supposed to start a new job on the Tuesday following his arrest - the company has put him on "hold" until they looked into the matter. In other words, he has joined the ranks of the temporaily unemployed and is not able to file for unemployment as he voluntarily left his previous position. Of course he is persuing other possibilities, but in this economy any break in the income stream hurts......a lot.

Dan Hawes is extremely confident in the eventual outcome, but we must to get from point A to point B before point C can even be addressed. There are no shortcuts to this.

Yes piggy bank contibutions will add up, telling your friends - spreading the word - cross posting to other forums, anything that will shine a light will help.

Appearing in silent support for hearings will go a long way to showing the powers that be that this man does NOT stand alone. Coming to breakfasts and shaking his hand, looking him in the eye and telling him how much you care are worth a considerable amount - he is under a lot of stress..........a Brother needs all we can give.
 

marshaul

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Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Well, I've taken advantage of the new "secured compartment" law a few time. I fail to see how you could utilize this at all, ever, if actually removing the gun from the glove box constitutes brandishing (which, of course, it doesn't).

I ought to be able to contribute (the value of) a lunch, unemployed student though I am.
 
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Glockster

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Houston
This man was supposed to start a new job on the Tuesday following his arrest - the company has put him on "hold" until they looked into the matter. In other words, he has joined the ranks of the temporaily unemployed and is not able to file for unemployment as he voluntarily left his previous position. Of course he is persuing other possibilities, but in this economy any break in the income stream hurts......a lot.

Dan Hawes is extremely confident in the eventual outcome, but we must to get from point A to point B before point C can even be addressed. There are no shortcuts to this.

Yes piggy bank contibutions will add up, telling your friends - spreading the word - cross posting to other forums, anything that will shine a light will help.

Appearing in silent support for hearings will go a long way to showing the powers that be that this man does NOT stand alone. Coming to breakfasts and shaking his hand, looking him in the eye and telling him how much you care are worth a considerable amount - he is under a lot of stress..........a Brother needs all we can give.


I have every opportunity I could paid my karma forward here and will of course do so again. I do look forward to being able to hear more about this as once we have a name and all know who it is, and then can read for ourselves (even if it's just the actual court filings) then it truly becomes a person who is one of us....and I think that helps with the donations.

So standing by waiting for the call to action.
 

marshaul

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Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Please include an addrerss for non-Pay-Pals to send checks.

Oh yeah, that's a good point. I closed my account recently when, after over a decade of having an account in good standing, they suddenly required me to jump through hoops to add a new card after my old was canceled (put my account on "administrative hold" or some such, like I had committed some sort of infraction, and then wanted me to submit documents proving... well, I stopped reading at that point).

I never work for anybody who isn't paying me. Unless it's Habitat for Humanity, or somebody I know personally.
 
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Grapeshot

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May 21, 2006
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Valhalla
Our brother and friend being brought before the bar is scouser - he has become a regular at OC breakfasts and dinners, most often with his young son. Quite, but articulate, relaxed and friendly, he is a good neighbor, someone you would trust with your grandchildren. He is neither pushy nor flashy, but he is consistantly a good man.

He is a common man (I mean that as an extreme compliment). He is what this country needs more of today. He left England and his roots to be with the woman he loves and married, to forge a new beginning, to build a future.

Work hard, obey the laws, put the well being of your family first, but beware the Ides of April - Henrico doesn't always reward those that try to be good people - there apparently was no investigation and the officer had no first hand knowledge.

Scourcer's primary offense would seem to be that he takes protecting himself and his family seriously/responsibly - the nerve, I mean really.

Dan Hawes is prepared to accept either paper or electronic checks - please foot note: For Graham C.

Payable to:
Virginia Legal Defense
P.O. Box 100
Broad Run, VA 20137


A Paypal link is pending confirmation of the bank account & should be up shortly.

btn_donateCC_LG.gif

.....Not active yet.
 
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carolina guy

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Jun 21, 2012
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Concord, NC
User,

It's being labeled as "consensual contact" once the summons is signed and the ID is handed back to the driver.

I would contend that the "second" encounter is a continuation of the traffic stop, and the officer cannot force contact by making a traffic stop on one violation and then make it consensual just because a summons is signed and the OL is returned.

I would especially contend that fact if the officer's emergency equipment (lights specifically) is still activated, a visual signal of arrest. Then I would contend that if the officer is still marked out (by radio or mobile data terminal) on the traffic stop, the officer is still engaged in the enforcement of the previous infraction.

You could parse it down to if the officer turns his emergency lights off while stopped on a highway of the Commonwealth, 46.2-960 is being violated, and all applicable local and state parking / stopping on the highway laws.

I just do not understand how a traffic stop can evolve into consensual contact. This false split would not lead a reasonable person to believe they are free to go, thus not making it a consensual encounter.

IMO it seems that this could be shortened to when the police officer hands back the license (and any other documents, including possible citation):

1) Ask if you are "free to go?". If the answer is "yes", say "thanks", roll up windows, start car, put the car in drive, signal and enter traffic.

2) If asked: "Is there a weapon in the car?", repeat #1

3) If asked "Do you have anything in the car that I should know about?" answer no, and repeat #1.

4) If asked "Do you mind if I search your car?" Answer "I do not consent to any searches." or my preferred "No, you may not search my car." and then repeat #1. If the officer persists, I would follow up with: "my attorney will be happy to answer any additional questions."
 

The Wolfhound

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
728
Location
Henrico, Virginia, USA
Well, Damn!

I just tumbled to this post. I appear to have been in the mistaken impression that I lived in one of the more enlightened jurisdictions in the commonwealth. That intersection is one I cross several times a month. Count me in the local support group. I really thought my County Police force better than this.
 
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