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State Commission Report on Parkland Fl. School Shooting Released

color of law

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There is an easy fix. It will take time. It took time to get in this mess. The fix is to take back our college and teach morals. This country was founded on Judeo-Christian values. And, our laws are to be based on those values. The first amendment only says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" It does not say that our government cannot be based Judeo-Christian values.
 

since9

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There is an easy fix. It will take time. It took time to get in this mess. The fix is to take back our college and teach morals.

How is that "easy?" It took liberals 70 years to corrupt it, and going downhill is always easier than maintaining high moral standards in the first place.

This country was founded on Judeo-Christian values. And, our laws are to be based on those values. The first amendment only says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" It does not say that our government cannot be based Judeo-Christian values.

No argument here. In fact, based on countless writings by our Founding Fathers themselves, the vast majority of them agree, as well. While they wanted to deny the national establishment of an religion, such as the King's Church of England, they most certainly had zero intentions of shutting faith out of our government. Indeed, the countless religious inscriptions all over our historical government buildings bear witness to the contrary.
 

since9

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Since the Broward County Sheriff and his deputies refuse to do their duty, the State Commission Report says that teachers need to be armed. They didn't stop there, however. They noted serious discrepancies with the way teachers and staff responded, as well. For example, while they "found that deputies didn’t rush into the school to stop the carnage," they also found "school staff committed numerous security breaches, including leaving doors unlocked and not calling a “Code Red” alarm quickly enough."

They concluded, "Armed teachers, stronger security and better law enforcement are needed to head off another school shooting like the one in Parkland."

Although I am very pro-2A, I do not support ALL teachers being armed. In fact, I believe in a strict selection process administered by local law enforcement school security officers with both school board and law enforcement oversight. At each stage, weed out those who don't qualify:

1. Only volunteers. If they didn't volunteer, they shouldn't be there.

2. Only those with prior law enforcement, military, and well-trained armed security guard training and certification. Honorable discharges and its equivalent, only.

3. Initial range qualification, beginning with a firearms and range safety class. Select only those who achieve a passing score on the range qualification test. As a consolation, everyone who completes this phase, regardless of their score, will receive state concealed carry permits/extensions for five years.

4. School security training. This hands-on training conducted in the actual schools covers a BASIC, easy to memorize mental checklist: DRESSED, pronounced, "Dressed." It stands for:
- Detecting - potential danger
- Reporting - danger and the situation
- Evacuating - students to safe areas
- Securing - students against intrusion into the safe areas
- Securing - school against external threats
- Evading - detection while in the safe areas
- Defending - against an active shooter

This mental checklist and the steps one takes should be as well-ingrained as the bailout checklist of "canopy, visor, mask, seat kit, LPUs, four-line, horizon, and PLF" all military aviators commit to memory before they ever strap on a jet.

Believe it or not, if just 5% of teachers went through this three-day, 15-hour course, schools would be considerably safer, not merely because some teachers are armed, but because most teachers would learn DRESSED and be far better prepared to respond appropriately to an active shooter situation.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/...eman-douglas-draft-report-20181212-story.html
 

HP995

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Although I am very pro-2A, I do not support ALL teachers being armed. In fact, I believe in a strict selection process administered by local law enforcement school security officers with both school board and law enforcement oversight.

I can't agree there. Remember, the "Broward County Sheriff and his deputies refuse to do their duty" but now SS and LE have oversight of the program intended to fix the deficiencies that they caused? What is the expected outcome with them at the steering wheel?

I do agree heartily with "only volunteers" versus ALL, but I disagree that only those the LE/SS approve versus ALL. I doubt that many members of LE/SS are in a condition to know what should be approved; these people were pretty much fakes, part of a corrupt regional cabal of incompetent guvbuddies, and mostly still in power with no real lessons learned. Whatever the same people come up with post-Parkland will likely have a lot of fake for show qualities. In the spirit of 2A I would suggest ALL teachers who wish to be armed can be.

2. Only those with prior law enforcement, military, and well-trained armed security guard training and certification.

Not at all - the failed LE/SS that created the Parkland incident already had that, and failed big-league. This would greatly reduce eligible armed teachers and rubs me the wrong way Constitutionally. Unfortunately most teachers may be flaming progressives, most of whom would self-deny, but the rest should be free to proceed as they wish.

3. Initial range qualification, beginning with a firearms and range safety class. Select only those who achieve a passing score on the range qualification test. As a consolation, everyone who completes this phase, regardless of their score, will receive state concealed carry permits/extensions for five years.

That sounds more like a CC stipulation. Might make sense if they're going to CC in school in a state with similar CC requirements; but doesn't make sense to give permits to those who fail. Why? Also, a teacher could OC or desk carry without needing to CC. That's between them, the school, and the law.

Gun safety is important but there are many crack shots who handle guns unsafely and even teach gun safety unsafely as we've seen in videos and eyewitness accounts. I think a school would be smart to promote the 4 rules, include them in all training, and anyone who violates doesn't carry in that school for one year at least.

4. School security training.

Yep! Not as a "do this first and present your qualifying certificate to the corrupt fake Broward LE/SS and they will give you your school safety permission ribbon after which you can carry" but more of a "all armed teachers will be expected to participate in these training sessions which we have twice a year" type stipulation. Could include some range time too.
 

since9

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I can't agree there...

Who are you quoting, HP995?

Yes, I know you're quoting my post. I'm the one who wrote it. Others, however, wouldn't know that.

I can't agree there. Remember, the "Broward County Sheriff and his deputies refuse to do their duty" but now SS and LE have oversight of the program intended to fix the deficiencies that they caused? What is the expected outcome with them at the steering wheel?

How far do you think you're going to get trying to take it out of local law enforcement's hands? Would the school board go for that? Does it sound like the people in that county have the gumption to stand up to the sheriff and mandate something else?

No way. Ergo, it'll be done under the SRO's supervision or there will be armed teachers at all.

I do agree heartily with "only volunteers" versus ALL, but I disagree that only those the LE/SS approve versus ALL. I doubt that many members of LE/SS are in a condition to know what should be approved; these people were pretty much fakes, part of a corrupt regional cabal of incompetent guvbuddies, and mostly still in power with no real lessons learned. Whatever the same people come up with post-Parkland will likely have a lot of fake for show qualities. In the spirit of 2A I would suggest ALL teachers who wish to be armed can be.

A mandated plan would have the SRO (school resource officer) administering the program, but he/she wouldn't be making the decision as to who's selected. If people at each stage meet or exceed the standards, they're selected. Background evaluations wouldn't be done by the SRO, and as for counting holes, well, in a class with more than three candidates, good luck on fudging a hit or miss count.

Not at all - the failed LE/SS that created the Parkland incident already had that, and failed big-league. This would greatly reduce eligible armed teachers and rubs me the wrong way Constitutionally.

I agree. However, try selling it to the school board any other way. You'll reduce perhaps a 25% "Ok, we'll give it a go" to perhaps a 90% "No."

Unfortunately most teachers may be flaming progressives, most of whom would self-deny, but the rest should be free to proceed as they wish.

Again, I agree with you in theory. However, when one has to convince a school board, one has to decide whether they'll shoot for a "possibly" by limiting it to those with LE/MIL experience or a "probably not" by opening it up to everyone.

But hey, go for the gold in your county. Let me know how that goes.

That sounds more like a CC stipulation. Might make sense if they're going to CC in school in a state with similar CC requirements; but doesn't make sense to give permits to those who fail. Why? Also, a teacher could OC or desk carry without needing to CC. That's between them, the school, and the law.

No, it's a "consolation prize" intended to increase initial participation. Wouldn't work in Constitutional carry or permit-less states, but some states charge way too much for CC initials and renewals.

CC requirements focus on firearms safety, not shooting accuracy. When you're dealing with the securing people, however, accuracy is a must.

The accuracy test isn't for the CC permit. It's for the armed teacher qualification.

Gun safety is important but there are many crack shots who handle guns unsafely and even teach gun safety unsafely as we've seen in videos and eyewitness accounts. I think a school would be smart to promote the 4 rules, include them in all training, and anyone who violates doesn't carry in that school for one year at least.

I wholeheartedly agree. Jeff Cooper did a fine job of condensing years of U.S. Marine Corps marksmanship and firearms discipline training into his four simple rules of safety. Always worth reviewing:

  1. All guns are always loaded. Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.
  2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. (For those who insist that this particular gun is unloaded, see Rule 1.)
  3. Keep your finger off the trigger till your sights are on the target. This is the Golden Rule. Its violation is directly responsible for about 60 percent of inadvertent discharges.
  4. Identify your target, and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything that you have not positively identified.

Yep! Not as a "do this first and present your qualifying certificate to the corrupt fake Broward LE/SS and they will give you your school safety permission ribbon after which you can carry" but more of a "all armed teachers will be expected to participate in these training sessions which we have twice a year" type stipulation. Could include some range time too.

I'm inclined to ensure all teachers, armed or not, participate in every stage of DRESSED except the final D (defending). Even then, for those teachers who are unarmed, there must be something they can do. Give the class a bucket of golf balls. Have you ever been hit in the head by a thrown golf ball? It hurts! Times thirty. Every three seconds.

I'd rather every adult be armed. Sadly, the way most teachers are, that's very unrealistic. Most teachers oppose armed teachers. Exceptions are usually from more rural, farming, and ranching areas.
 

solus

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here nc
[QUOTE="since9, post: 2236401, member: 43653]Snipppp...
Although I am very pro-2A, I do not support ALL teachers being armed. In fact, I believe in a strict selection process administered by local law enforcement school security officers with both school board and law enforcement oversight. At each stage, weed out those who don't qualify:

1. Only volunteers. If they didn't volunteer, they shouldn't be there.

2. Only those with prior law enforcement, military, and well-trained armed security guard training and certification. Honorable discharges and its equivalent, only.

3. Initial range qualification, beginning with a firearms and range safety class. Select only those who achieve a passing score on the range qualification test. As a consolation, everyone who completes this phase, regardless of their score, will receive state concealed carry permits/extensions for five years.

4. School security training. This hands-on training conducted in the actual schools covers a BASIC, easy to memorize mental checklist: DRESSED, pronounced, "Dressed." It stands for:
- Detecting - potential danger
- Reporting - danger and the situation
- Evacuating - students to safe areas
- Securing - students against intrusion into the safe areas
- Securing - school against external threats
- Evading - detection while in the safe areas
- Defending - against an active shooter

This mental checklist and the steps one takes should be as well-ingrained as the bailout checklist of "canopy, visor, mask, seat kit, LPUs, four-line, horizon, and PLF" all military aviators commit to memory before they ever strap on a jet.

Believe it or not, if just 5% of teachers went through this three-day, 15-hour course, schools would be considerably safer, not merely because some teachers are armed, but because most teachers would learn DRESSED and be far better prepared to respond appropriately to an active shooter situation.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/...eman-douglas-draft-report-20181212-story.html[/QUOTE]

so since9, i did attribute your post correctly and to your satisfaction didn’t i?

Now speaking of attributing correctly, as we were of course, who is actually responsible for developing your ithree day/15 hour [let’s see three, eight hour, days equals 24 hours ?] illustrious training scheme you reference without one iota of acknowledgement and might, just might, be an infringement of copyright laws?

Btw since9, the extremely relevant reference to the “bailout checklist, etc.,” while discussing a handgun training class was precious to say the least.

You forget, LE/Mil/Sec Guards mind sets are not trained to protect/defend and LE/Mil/Sec Guards are some of the worst individuals on the range with the lowest qualifying scores - just barely enough to qualify, so you want this group to facilitate a shooting course.

Now, for the record, i have no heatburn whatsoever of building a viable national curriculum outside the auspices of LE [who despite their omnipresent blue belief in themselves, are not known for their educational background capabilities] or Xmil, from a collaborative group of subject matter experts, e.g., legal experts, known firearm training entities [absolutely no LEs, Xmilitary, let alone “CERTIFIED SECURITY GUARDS” need apply] and others SMEs all under the oversight of viable educators who are familiar with the psychological learning traits of adult learners.

Remember, these folks would no longer meet state mandates as SD JQPublic pulling their SD handgun to defend themselves against someone because they ‘fear for their life’. These individuals are now trained and armed by an outside enity to premeditatedly defend the ‘populace’ around them from someone who is an adolescent or young adult suffering from MH issue(s).

Finally, who absorbs the liability or will the courts also allow them QI umbrella protection? Or liability of the school districts themselves when the stellar trained educator missed and takes out a random student or in the rush shoots someone they ‘believe’ is part of the BG’s group?
 

JTHunter2

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Back in my high school days, a very astute teacher taught us the phrase, "Knowledge is Power."
Even if these teachers choose NOT to carry in class (if allowed to) will still be better off as they have knowledge that has taught them to be more aware of their surroundings. And, while they might not carry, they will have a working knowledge of firearms they might not have had before. This will enable them to be able to safely handle firearms if and when they take it away from a student.
 

solus

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here nc
JT, et al., for whatever reason Homeland has taught [preached] [indoctrinated] [brainwashed] to the masses to run away and cower instead of grabbing a fire extinguisher, or folding chair, or a book or rocks or a hockey puck or.... and en mass attacking the invader(s)! [oh, those with the articles of attack may continue plummeting, with absolute QI, said invaders until arrival of LE.]

Let’s be realistic and state, yes some might be wounded or killed, but maybe not any worse that the current casualties currently endured under the everyone hide so the shooter will stalk them and shoot them anyway mentality!

It is a video game turn into reality for the individual(s) perpetrated these offenses. MOB mentality would rule and which doesnt exist in video games, taking the video game mentality out of these attacks put a quick end to the invaders!

Finaly, in few exceptions has the shooters of these atrocities survived, and for those who survived, their punishment - 3 squares/a day, free housing and medical/dental and clothing, etc., for life.

So instead of charging ahead with teachers w/guns in hand, why on earth hasn’t any commission, LE, School board, teacher’s group, parents asked the simple question of...

“why in the world are we following Homeland’s nonsense, without any type of statutory backbone, where everyone hides policies which continues in practice to unequivocally show the concept is ineffective and doesn’t mitigate a single death/wounding of anybody and come up with a viable response to these events?”

H3ll, even the FL LE’s played the run and hide game!

Please understand the loss of any offspring, acquaintances, etc., is devastating, but to compound said loss due to the fact they were hiding & cowering awaiting the invaders instead of being able to state...ya know my offspring, etc., died/wounded while attacking the SOB’g BG while swinging a folding chair or fire extinguishers or...
 
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color of law

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"DRESSED" seriously? The old testament wanted you to follow 10 rules, didn't happen. The new testament wanted you to follow two rules, didn't happen. Now, you are going to follow seven rules. won't happen.
 

OC for ME

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Unaccountable judges have already taken care of the liability issue where schools are concerned. In the name of order and discipline in the school house, districts, administrators, teachers and staff are pretty mush enjoying near cop level QI. Privacy of students is paramount when it benefits the school. Even info on your own kid is likely to not be released to the parent if it benefits the school. Mitigation of any legal entanglements is job one of school districts, no matter the cost to the kids and their parents.
 

Ghost1958

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Since9 quote,,,,

Although I am very pro-2A, I do not support ALL teachers being armed. In fact, I believe in a strict selection process administered by local law enforcement school security officers with both school board and law enforcement oversight. At each stage, weed out those who don't qualify:


So you are in reality not pro 2A or RTKABA at all since the 2A allows no such infringements .

12 so called "trained professionals " were to scared and too wrapped up in playing soldier to go eliminate 1 untrained kid. For 11 full minutes of slaughter.

Just let the teachers and staff be armed as 2A demands and the rest will take care of itself.
 
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since9

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Back in my high school days, a very astute teacher taught us the phrase, "Knowledge is Power."
Even if these teachers choose NOT to carry in class (if allowed to) will still be better off as they have knowledge that has taught them to be more aware of their surroundings. And, while they might not carry, they will have a working knowledge of firearms they might not have had before. This will enable them to be able to safely handle firearms if and when they take it away from a student.

So true. And your statements remind of something that recently happened.

About five months ago, a neighbor's kid met me as the elevator door opened with a gun in his hand, pointed straight at my belly. Fortunately, it was all blaze orange and he was saying, "BANG! BANG!"

I tensed and very nearly started to take it away, but stopped. Thank God, as it probably would have traumatized him for life, if not broken a couple of his fingers.

Instead, I gave him a quick but stern talking to that probably traumatized him for life. Hopefully, in a good way.
 
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