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Sprouts = gunbusters

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
My right is the US Constution.

As affirmed by the founding fathers, and upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States.

I'll ask you ONE MORE TIME show me where you or ANYONE else can infringe my rights??

Until you can don't bother replying to me.

Ignorance.

The constitution isn't a right, the constitution doesn't grant rights.

You are absolutely wrong, the Supreme court has never upheld your right to carry onto someones private property against their wishes. IF anything the SCOTUS has eroded rights.

No one is infringing upon your right, you do not have the right to do anything or have anything on my property I do not with there. You have the right to choose not to be on my property.

The ridiculousness of your statement also show you don't care about infringing upon my rights.

You have yet to cite one claim to back up you bare assertions.
 

Glock 1st fan

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
310
Location
United States
In Oklahoma its easy to skirt the parking lot law but property owners have to be cautious. While you can not enact any policy against anyone carrying a firearm in their vehicle on any property designated for the use of parking (Except school property until November 1st) a property owner could simply say he doesnt like you and you have to leave. Now if he says its because of the gun in the car yes he can get in doo doo but simply rewarding his intentions can skirt that.
 
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marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
In Oklahoma its easy to skirt the parking lot law but property owners have to be cautious. While you can not enact any policy against anyone carrying a firearm in their vehicle on any property designated for the use of parking (Except school property until November 1st) a property owner could simply say he doesnt like you and you have to leave. Now if he says its because of the gun in the car yes he can get in doo doo but simply rewarding his intentions can skirt that.

That's the one reason these laws are fairly dumb. So long as the property owner's rights are secure, he doesn't need a reason to eject you. This is as it should be, of course. Only by completly rejecting the rights of property owners can we achieve the desired result.

On the other hand, these laws probably do incentivize companies allowing their employees to keep guns in their cars, as they can comfortably disregard potential liability or criticism from mad mothers.

Surely there's a middle ground where we can respect all rights and still incentivize businesses to be permissive. I think a good start would be legislation which prohibits the assumption of liability for permissive business should something go wrong, while preserving potential liability for those who are not permissive and make no other security arrangements.
 
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Amigatec

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
34
Location
Haskell, Oklahoma, United States
:rolleyes:

You seem to believe that rights come from government. They do not. They never have.

And you do not possess a right to force yourself onto my property.

You seem to think you can cite your way around the fact that the Bill of Rights limits government, and that it does not empower you. You cannot, for the weight of history (and jurisprudence, if that mattered) is on my side.

I'm done with you and your opinions.

Goodbye!!!
 

Robert318

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2012
Messages
158
Location
Choctaw, OK
Sounds to me Miss customer relations is very bias and not listening to customers at all except maybe those with a criminal record and those that are ignorant.

I respect their right to govern or control their own property and with that I refuse to go unarmed anywhere and will only make a few reluctant exceptions, like places that have armed guards and those expressly prohibited by law.

What these business owners need to understand is for one that our latest wording in the SDA relieves business owners for civil liability for allowing lawful citizens and employees to be armed and that by enforcing a ban on their premises that they are supporting the criminal element in society and not the law abiding and ensuring that the majority of those patronizing their locations are more likely criminals than not. Also that just like there are many more customers in the sea there are also many more venders as well, and that many of those that carry will not patronize stores that deny them their ability to defend themselves should the need arise.
 

Elm Creek Smith

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Messages
204
Location
In the county.
Do you really think they are going to call the cops and have you escorted off the property?

If they ask you to leave and you refuse, they might. The problem is that the police won't just "escort[...] you off the property." They'll cite you for trespassing or arrest you, especially if you act the fool.
 
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Elm Creek Smith

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Messages
204
Location
In the county.
I thought you told me I can't carry my gun into PRIVATE PROPERTY???

Here is the Law here in Oklahoma.

Notice PARKING LOTS ON PRIVATE PROPERTY CAN NOT BE MADE OFF LIMITS TO GUN!!!!!!

I have posted LAW here, I'm still waiting on you to prove me wrong!!!!



TITLE 21 § 1290.22. Business owner’s rights
BUSINESS OWNER’S RIGHTS
A. Except as provided in subsection B of this section, nothing contained in any provision of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Section 1290.1 et seq. of this title, shall be construed to limit, restrict or prohibit in any manner the existing rights of any person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity to control the possession of weapons on any property owned or controlled by the person or business entity.
B. No person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity shall be permitted to establish any policy or rule that has the effect of prohibiting any person, except a convicted felon, from transporting and storing firearms in a locked vehicle on any property set aside for any vehicle.

Please note that the law you posted (21§1290.22) affirms the right of the business to control (includes prohibit) the possession of weapons on all property owned or controlled by that business with the SOLE EXCEPTION OF THE PARKING LOT. If you won't recognize the business entity's right to prohibit firearms possession on its property (excepting parking lots) you obviously didn't understand the provisions of the Oklahoma Self Defense Act taught to you in your handgun license class and deserve anything that happens to you as a result.
 

Robert318

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2012
Messages
158
Location
Choctaw, OK
If they ask you to leave and you refuse, they might. The problem is that the police won't just "escort[...] you off the property." They'll cite you for trespassing or arrest you, especially if you act the fool.

Even if they just call the police, they can no longer just cite you for trespass unless you refuse to leave. Now acting a fool is a different story.

TITLE 21 § 1290.22 BUSINESS OWNER’S RIGHT

D. The carrying of a concealed or unconcealed firearm by a person who has been issued a handgun license on property that has signs prohibiting the carrying of firearms shall not be deemed a criminal act but may subject the person to being denied entrance onto the property or removed from the property. If the person refuses to leave the property and a peace officer is summoned, the person may be issued a citation for an amount not to exceed Two Hundred Fifty Dollars ($250.00).

Note: that it says if a officer is summoned but nothing says they have to approach you first then call the police. So it is obviously going to be at the discretion of the officer but if no one has asked you to leave, just going passed a no guns sign is not criminal trespass. Also note that i am not an attorney and this is just my interpretation of said law.

But again why would / should lawful citizens support or patronize any business that denies lawful citizens their right to defend themselves? I know I will go out of my way to not give them my hard earned honest money and will give it to business that respect my rights over the criminals and ignorant. But unfortunately some will and if they get in a situation and cant defend themselves because they chose to bend over then frankly they deserve what they get and can only blame themselves unless of corse its a school or gov building, since some morons in control still think a ban makes them/people safe.
 
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twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV

Elm Creek Smith

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Messages
204
Location
In the county.
But again why would / should lawful citizens support or patronize any business that denies lawful citizens their right to defend themselves?

That's kinda why I started this thread. I had no idea someone would start jumping up and down shouting about his right to carry on someone else's property. :uhoh:
 

NMOCr

Regular Member
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
41
Location
NM
Just an idea from the civil rights movement, protest in front of their store with a simple sign "sprouts is discriminating against me!". DO NOT MENTION FIREARMS IN SIGN! Then when people ask, you can explain. It's a trick right out of the progressive liberal playbook too. Makes store look bad and puts pressure on them to remove policy.
 

The Truth

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2014
Messages
1,972
Location
Henrico
@Amigatec

If you're on my private property and I tell you to GTFO, you will comply whether your conscious mind is aware of it or not.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
There is nothing in the Constitution that gives them the right to infringe my rights. I have the same rights they do. The 2A applies to every person in the country. Let them try to post a sign that says "No Homosexuals Allowed" and see how far that goes.

Needless to say, I carried my gun in there just the day, I looked the sign, I deciced my rights are more important than there stupid sign.

The only places I don't carry are the prohibited by law.

Screw the sign.
You do not have a right to carry on private property. Gun owners/carriers are not a protected class.

You do have the right to not shop there.
 

Glock 1st fan

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
310
Location
United States
You do not have a right to carry on private property. Gun owners/carriers are not a protected class.

You do have the right to not shop there.

I would actually have worded it a little differently that while the 2nd amendment does not state restrictions on where one can carry and can't, a property owner can ask anyone to leave for any reason they so desire and is not required to even tell a person why. Interestingly as an example I can tell someone to get off my land just because I dont like them and nothing more.

Your correct though in that I personally carry concealed everywhere except prohibited places because what they dont know wont hurt them. I know this is not the general opinion nor am I advocating for it.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
I would actually have worded it a little differently that while the 2nd amendment does not state restrictions on where one can carry and can't, a property owner can ask anyone to leave for any reason they so desire and is not required to even tell a person why. Interestingly as an example I can tell someone to get off my land just because I dont like them and nothing more.

Your correct though in that I personally carry concealed everywhere except prohibited places because what they dont know wont hurt them. I know this is not the general opinion nor am I advocating for it.
Surely a private property owner can ask, but enforcing that position might run afoul of the civil rights of protected classes.....and that could become very expensive.
 

Glock 1st fan

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
310
Location
United States
Surely a private property owner can ask, but enforcing that position might run afoul of the civil rights of protected classes.....and that could become very expensive.

You are correct. The best bet is just leave it unspoken. Simply ask a person to leave and dont get in to why. By the letter of law no one is required to tell someone why they are being asked to leave.
 
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