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So, I hit a deer tonight with my car while carrying and shot the deer..

PQ36

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Messages
50
Location
Frozen Tundra, Wisconsin
(d) Except as provided in sub. (4) (a), (bg), (cg), (e), and (g), no person may discharge a firearm or shoot a bolt or an arrow from a bow or crossbow from or across a highway or within 50 feet of the center of a roadway. ...........(dot dot dot)

Unless you are a "cop". Was just chatting in lunchroom at work about things like this, how Joe Leo took umpteen pot shots at dear, to no avail, and my co-worker had to, in disgust, take care of the suffering critter, much to the consternation and chagrin and wounded pride of Joe LEO.

BROKEN SPROCKET:
I would plead not guilty, let it go to pretrial. I will bet that the DA will drop it in the pretrial conference. If not, and you want to fight it on prinicipal, go for it. If you can afford it. At what point you 'lawyer up' is up to you. It has to be on principle, because the lawyer will cost more than the ticket.

I agree 100%. The last two bogus speeding tickets taught me about fighting nonsense like this. Most recent experience cost me a few hundred bucks in order to gain many thousands of dollars worth of experience (rough estimate!) of how the illegal system works. While also costing them tons (and I mean tons) of time and frustration and money (that taxpayers should perk up to) in order to cram it down my throat.

POINT BEING: Fight that citation!! Take it to the limit. Make them HAVE TO work for it. The "cop" could have simply thanked you for your help, and be done with the whole thing.

MKEgal:
I think you absolutely did the morally right thing,
and I can't imagine any prosecutor or judge trying to argue that preventing suffering isn't justified, so it's probably even legally OK.

Exactly. What you did was, considered by the system, was mala prohibita, not mala in se. Study up on Jury Nullification, even if only for future reference in the event you get the chance to serve as a juror. WAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY too many of us (citizens at large) don't even remember this being covered in govt. school,..... because it wasn't!

You have intent (to do good) on your side, as well as the act35 language (thankfully) regarding discharge of weapon. Fight it, fight it fight it.


BrassMagnet:
ETA: BTW, I'm sitting in my deer stand right now...haha.

Grrrrr, have to rub it in, dontcha? We'll deal with you later my friend!:p <just teasing>

Old Grump:
Sorry again you learned the hard way but that is Wisconsin law and one you should have known. Now you know why a large number of people turn away and put their hands in their pockets instead of intervening in a situation where they might have been able to help. The authorities who cannot be everywhere at once and have no constitutional obligation to be your personal body guard are going to rake you over the coals for doing what they should have. I do not blame the police for this, blame their bosses and the petty tyrants in office who think they are rulers instead of our representatives. No good deed will go unpunished here in the Dairy State.

you learned the hard way
Tyranny is, in fact, the hard way, I'll give you that.

one you should have known.

Our society has literally lost track of the literally countless number of "laws" on the books. I sure can't avail myself of EVERY one of them (or half, or quarter, or......) Remember, out with common law, in with statutory 100%, crank up the mala prohibita, join the collective, etc etc. Aint life grand?

put their hands in their pockets

This is how we got where we are today, by putting our hands in our pockets (most) every time we should have taken a stand for the right thing to do.

intervening in a situation


Yes, we should intervene in the situation that is our demise and loss of God given liberties (albeit contingent on restraint of self to be able to enjoy). Intervene by fighting this citation.

to help.

And by intervening to fight this citation, it will help!

rake you over the coals


We get raked over all the coals that we allow ourselves to be raked over, by omission or commission,... intervene by fighting error.

I do not blame the police



Sooooo....... I can blame "my superiors" and do whatever I want? Cool. Not. If I tried that as a defense in court, they would laugh me all the way to jail. I do blame the [fill in the blank] individual who made his/her choice, as an individual, for the consequences of said choice. "cops" took an oath to uphold the constitution and are not held to enforce bogus "laws". In reality, that happens all too frequently, but frequency does not equal validity.

No good deed will go unpunished here in the Dairy State.

IF ONLY it were limited to the border/confines of WI !! That would be way too easy:D Hey, maybe we can export/limit tyranny to Illinois? As in "last one to rid themselves of CCW prohibitions is a rotten egg" (Oh, wait, didn't I hear something about 57 states now?:eek:)


FIGHT THE CITATION.
Lord Sega:
At least you got to keep the meat, in Oregon the meat is taken by the state and if usable (clean) it is donated to the needy (ie soup kitchens).
While that is a noble and worthwhile cause for the meat, if I take $2000 in car damage I want some steaks out of the deal.

Sounds like the Obamalinsky model of redistribution of venison!:uhoh:


Nutczak:
Fight, Fight Fight Fight, Fight Fight Fight, Fight Fight Fight, Fight Fight

Fight that ticket! The DA probably wont even look at the charges until you are both in court together. This is very winnable.

So, you could have legally slit the deers throat and let it bleed out, but you cannot shoot it to keep it from endangering others.

Fight this to the very end. I know you may not think a $100.00 fine is worth the effort, but this is both a matter of principal, and this may also come back and bite you in the a$$ if not dropped, dismissed, or you are found not guilty.

I like this guy ^ , he is speaking my language!

GlockRDH:
anyone know...does 167.31 have an exception for LEOs?

Probably just the usual prima facie made up on the spot ad nauseum kind of exception.:banghead:


Bottom line (literally):

Fight the whole thing, as far as you can take it. They HATE IT when they have to do so. The more citizens stand up for themselves, the less they will violate us. It takes effort, time, and yes, some moo-laa, but can be done pro-se, and be effective nonetheless in achieving the push-back effect that the just hate.
 

Old Grump

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2010
Messages
387
Location
Blue River, Wisconsin, USA
It's not criminal (risk of jail), it's a forfeiture (fine only).
Depends on who you have showing up at the scene and what they charge you with. You could get a bye on it or you could get charged with poaching and shooting to close to the highway and anything else Junior might think up to write. Some are pretty flexible and some are like the law, no exceptions. So far it's been 3 good and 1 bad since I moved to my little hut in the woods.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
This is what happens when cops become law enforcement officers instead of peace officers.

And, look for things to arrest, rather than remember that the law, being man-made, cannot possibly take all situations into account. I think the term equity includes this concept.
 

revolverrandy

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
89
Location
, ,
Sorry this happened

Glad nobody was hurt but I don't think it was a good choice to shoot the deer.
I know I need to read and reread the concealed carry rules but doesn't it state for what reason your concealed weapon can be drawn and fired?
 

Vandil

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
240
Location
Sun Prairie
Sorry about your G6!

It was been twenty years ago but I had conversations with three different DNR wardens in my part of the state on the subject of what to with a wounded deer following a collision with a motor vehicle. Each one responded without hesitation they would cite me on the spot and confiscate the firearm if I shot the deer. I'm not saying they were correct nor am I saying that any applicable rule might not have changed, just that I still think of the Wisconsin DNR as Damned Near Russia.


1991 and same conversation with a DNR officer.

I probably would have shot it and then said some passerby did it and drove off.
 

Pyro01

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Messages
202
Location
Menomonie, Wisconsin, USA
The only thing that would stop me from fighting a ticket like that is if they tack court costs on top of the ticket if you're found guilty. I know they do that with speeding tickets in MN, but I'm not sure about WI because the last time I got a ticket here was 7 years ago.
 

KBCraig

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
4,886
Location
Granite State of Mind
I probably would have shot it and then said some passerby did it and drove off.

I would probably just say I hit it with the car and now it's dead. If he wants to perform a roadside necropsy and then seek a warrant to check my vehicle for firearms, let him waste his time.
 

CastIron

New member
Joined
Nov 23, 2011
Messages
2
Location
MN
http://legis.wisconsin.gov/RSB/STATS.HTML


I think you absolutely did the morally right thing,
and I can't imagine any prosecutor or judge trying to argue that preventing suffering isn't justified, so it's probably even legally OK.

I agree that "unless justified or privileged" is the right phrase to leverage here. (Wis. Stat. § 941.20(3), 167.30(2))

Maybe submit a written argument about the animal's suffering, quote the "conduct is justified" part, and state how you dispatched it in a totally safe manner...

When the issue is on principle, rather than the fine itself, then writing a letter is the way to go. It can be a quick and easy way to put your mind at ease without expending any real time or money. And, if a judge agrees with you, it would become valuable case law for countless others who want to make the humane choice. A simple letter could help more people down the road.
 

Nutczak

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Messages
2,165
Location
The Northwoods, lakeland area, Wisconsin, USA
there may be another way to make your point..............

By using materials printed by another WI government entity!

See if you can find anything in any DNR hunting publications about making a clean, efficient, quick, kill to lessen suffering of the animal. Use their own sides rules against the cop/prosecutor to show your dispatching the deer quickly and humanely was the morally correct thing to do. Make it very clear that the deer was trying to get up and you feared it would run back into traffic and injure someone else. A year ago, in Oneida county a driver was killed by a deer coming through his windshield. You did not want that to happen, and the flailing hooves posed too much danger to use other means to dispatch the deer safely and efficiently.

Lets look at it this way, if you were running from a violent criminal, and crossed the street without using the crosswalk, would you expect to be cited for jaywalking? Do you think a judge (who is not running a kangaroo court) would find against you?

Fight this, maybe get some animal rights people on your side (i know, it can be difficult dealing with those nuts) if they back you, I am sure charges will be dropped to avoid possible protests.
 

springfield 1911

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2008
Messages
484
Location
Racine, Wisconsin, USA
not much

Taking of Game
It is illegal to:
• take or possess any deer or wild animal which has been lawfully obtained by someone
else without having that person’s consent.
• not immediately kill all game taken and make it part of the daily bag.
• carelessly waste game. You must make every reasonable effort to retrieve all game
killed or crippled. Until such effort is made, such game shall be included in the daily
bag. This rule does not allow you to trespass without permission of the landowner
nor to shoot game beyond established shooting hours.
 

Potent Dagger

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
31
Location
Alabama
Less than a month ago I was working at a job site and saw a dog get hit by a car. The dog was suffering, the driver was more concerned about his vehicle, a vet tech stopped and suggested I load the dog in my car and follow him to the vets office he worked at to have it put down for the generous sum of $125.00.

An Alabama Constable stopped his vehicle and got out. I told him what had happened, and I had dragged the dog out of the street so that no one would get hurt by traffic. The Constable had his glock and was in uniform, he stated he hated to shot a dog, and I could tell from the look in his eyes he would probably rather be shot himself than to shoot a dog. I told him I had no reservation about putting down a suffering animal, and I told him I had a CCW permit, and was former law enforcement, and that I would have already shot the dog to end its suffering but did not have my pistol with me that day.

The Constable unholstered his Glock and handed it to me, and I used it to end the suffering of the dog. One 40 cal round through the center of the top of the dogs head was all it took to end what would have been nothing more than prolonged agony, not to mention fear in that dog which was conscious though clearly mortally injured. After I shot the dog in the head to stop its suffering, it took two deep breaths, and believe it or not, it wagged its tail for about five second, no frantic death spasm or twitch, but just a few un-hurried, and it seemed to all of us, an almost happy wagging of its tail, the same wagging which I often see from my six dogs each day when I get home.

I told the Constable that I appreciated his help and handed him his weapon back, and I am not ashamed to tell you that we both had tears in our eyes though we were both fighting them back. It wasn't our dog, but we both had feeling of regret at the circumstances we had found ourselves in. Who knows, maybe I am getting soft in my old age.

Depending on ones perspective, I broke two laws that day, I discharged a weapon in city limits, and given that this was next to a public street in a residential area of town, possible Reckless Endangerment. But I think I did the right thing, from a moral, ethical, and certainly from a humane perspective. I also accepted the possible consequences of my actions and was prepared to defend my actions in court, and especially using the local news media if the circumstances required it.

I think the OP did the right thing also. If I were the OP I would hire a lawyer and fight the charge. I would document the damage to my vehicle, as proof of no intention to be involved in "hunting", and photograph the scene of the alleged offense to document that your actions in discharging the weapon did not endanger anyone, it might also help if you had any witnesses that would take your side that your intention was not hunting and was merely a humane duty to act to end the misery of a suffering animal. I would also document the 911 call and get any recordings the 911 center has of your call, and the police dispatch times and the officers arrival time on scene, there may also be police radio dispatch recordings which may contain radio traffic of the officer and his supervisor or dispatcher which may contain information on why the officer decided to cite you. Sometimes officers will say the darn-est things over a radio which may give you an insight on why he charged you with an otherwise unsupported offense, when his common sense and officer discretion should have dictated he do otherwise.

As a former Law Enforcement officer, I know all to many officers who take the position that it is not part of their job to use common sense and discretion in deciding when to charge someone and when not to, but all too often that is just to cover up for an overzealousness on their part, and a willingness to charge anyone for anything they can come up with to boost their arrest stats to impress superiors, although such overzealousness often results in the officer getting a poor reputation with prosecutors who dislike having to prosecute weak cases.

But a word of warning, if you are going to fight this charge, act sooner rather than later, and do not expect the state prosecutor to just roll over without having good reason or a well presented excuse to. Your lawyer needs to be talking to the DA about the case before it goes to trial, not on the day you show up for your first court date.

Good luck.




Well, it didn't go so well. I got cited for 167.31 (2) (d) and got a $100 dollar fine.. The fine is not a big deal... I wasn't going to wait till police came (which was 20mins later) to shoot the deer.. I don't hunt (My prerogative) but I didn't want this thing to suffer.. I don't mind paying the fine but I think this is not right.. I'm kinda pissed because of the bad rap that 2nd amendment gun owners face... I was told that I was "Lead Happy".. May I add that I took 2 rounds of my .45 acp... I make a good living and wonder what court would think.. What side they would take.. Die now or suffer longer.. Sorry for the vague post, still shaking...

The question is not, "Can they reason?" nor, "Can they talk?" but rather, "Can they suffer?" ~Jeremy Bentham
 
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