Second Amendment rights of young people. Dave Kopel at Volokh Conspiracy

[Doug_Nightmare]

http://reason.com/volokh/2019/02/26/second-amendment-rights-of-young-adults

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3231468

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3205664

Do persons under 21 have any Second Amendment rights? Around the nation, gun control activists have been pushing for laws to prohibit firearms for persons under 21. In a symposium issue of the Southern Illinois University Law Journal, Joseph Greenlee and I examine the issue.
[ ... ]
In sum, the legal tradition of the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, as well as post-Heller federal circuit cases provide two approaches to the right to arms of persons under 21. Under the 1911 approach of the Georgia Court of Appeals, and of the modern Fifth Circuit, persons under 21 have no rights that the government is bound to respect. Under the approach of the Seventh Circuit, people under 21 may sometimes be subject to extra regulation, but not to prohibition. A ban on long guns for persons 18-20 is bereft of any support in history and tradition.

 

[OC for ME]

Any SCOTUS cases on 18 to 21?

 

[Ghost1958]

Short answer, yes.

Regardless of SCOTUS rulings.

What Stalin did was totally legal in his nation at the time.

Court rulings cannot legitimize unconstitutional law.

 

[eye95]

There can be no reasonable argument that children of all ages have all Rights. That is easily demonstrable folly.

The questions are merely which Rights they have and at which ages they obtain them.

 

[OC for ME]

Define child/minor, as in what age are we no longer a kid. Then we can discuss the constitutionality of any infringements.

 

[Ghost1958]

Not for gov to decide but instead the child's parents or guardian based on the individual child capabilities.

 

[eye95]

Like I said folly. A five-year-old has a right to carry a loaded firearm? Idiot parents are allowed to say their five-year-old can carry at will???

Folly.

Again, the only question is what Rights children have, and at what age, or under what circumstances, they gain each of the Rights that all adults enjoy.

Anyway, I have illustrated as much as possible the insanity of asserting that all children have a RKBA. Continuing would be pointless. I leave it to our collective readers to assess your assertion v. my reasonable argument.

 

[Ghost1958]

Like I said folly. A five-year-old has a right to carry a loaded firearm? Idiot parents are allowed to say their five-year-old can carry at will???

Folly.

Again, the only question is what Rights children have, and at what age, or under what circumstances, they gain each of the Rights that all adults enjoy.

Anyway, I have illustrated as much as possible the insanity of asserting that all children have a RKBA. Continuing would be pointless. I leave it to our collective readers to assess your assertion v. my reasonable argument.

Your opinion.

Fact, I carried a sidearm and or shotgun at age 7, daily, by necessity, tending the stock on our 3 farms when my father took cancer.

Many of my friends did also. It was up to our parents as it should be, not the nanny state .

Other of my friends werent allowed by their parents until much later.

Folly is leaving what should be the decisions of parents concerning their children up to gov.

 

[OC for ME]

My daddy gave me a Iver Johnson .410 when I was eight. I think he got it from the Sears catalog via mail order.

Carried it on the farm when I had to check under the cotton pickers first thing in the morning for snakes. The .410 was used to kill beavers that clogged up drainage pipes. And the occasional squirrel or two. Back in the 60's in SC.

Nobody thought anything of it.

Used to catch a ride every now and then, if I got lucky, when walking back to the house by a neighbor and one time by a local deputy. The deputy fussed at me for not taking care of the gun proper like. Told on me to my daddy when we got to the house...got a whuppin for my negligence/laziness.

Different time back then...missum to be sure.

Edit for clarity.

 

[JTHunter2]

Define child/minor, as in what age are we no longer a kid. Then we can discuss the constitutionality of any infringements.

"Maturity", not age, should be the deciding factor.
Example #1 - a 12-16 year old is the oldest of the siblings and helps the parents care for the younger ones. They help with laundry, cooking, etc., including watching over the younger ones while the parents are still at work.
Example #2 - a 21 year old child with a mental handicap such as Down's Syndrome of some form of autism where their level of mental functioning is less than a "normal" 12-16 year old.
Which child is likely mature enough to be trusted with the use of a firearm?

 

[OC for ME]

Check you state laws. A 18 year old is a adult in all but guns, booze, and smokes (in some states).

From 2016: Minimum Legal Drinking Age in 190 Countries

Minimum Legal Drinking Age in 190 Countries - Minimum Legal Drinking Age - ProCon.org

International Guide to Minimum Legal Drinking Ages (MLDAs) in 138 Countries

drinkingage.procon.org

 

[eye95]

The reasonable measure of when one is an adult is when one takes responsibility for one’s own life.

I became an adult at age 19 when I joined the Air Force and stopped relying on family for my care. I was 100% on my own—and have been since.

 

[OC for ME]

I at 17, with parents consent, joined the Navy. My DW would argue that my maturity is sometimes/somewhat questionable.

 

[Ghost1958]

The reasonable measure of when one is an adult is when one takes responsibility for one’s own life.

I became an adult at age 19 when I joined the Air Force and stopped relying on family for my care. I was 100% on my own—and have been since.

Opinion. I know people who are 30 don't depend on family that no sane person would consider adult.

But let's humor that line of thought . Because it f it held water I was an armed adult at age 7. Due to illness for a period of over a year my family depended on me to keep three farms ,and 100 head of stock fed ,cared for and sellable for our survival. And I did.

But I'd hardly say I was an adult at 7.

 

[eye95]

Of course what I wrote is opinion. Did I say it was law???

No one at age 7 is responsible for himself or herself. Someone is taking care of them.

My opinion [gasp]: If Mommy and Daddy are still caring for you at age 30, you are still a child. If you are emancipated at 16, earning your own living and caring for your own well-being, you are an adult.

Many people say, “With Rights come responsibilities.” I say that the link is much stronger. The two are inextricably intertwined. As you become responsible for yourself you earn the moral authority to exercise your Rights. When someone else cares for most or all of your needs (is taking responsibility for you) it is natural for them to exert control over you, to determine what Rights you have or may exercise.