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Seattle Hempfest

Metalhead47

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Based on teh replies from hempfest, they are limiting firearms at the order of either the city or a private organization. Yes, they are choosing to bow to the other organization, but their other choice is to NOT have their event. They are making the choice to promote their chosen agenda within the restrictions of current politics. Don't blame the messenger for the mixed message, blame the organizations forcing the second message.




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Metalhead47

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Based on teh replies from hempfest, they are limiting firearms at the order of either the city or a private organization. Yes, they are choosing to bow to the other organization, but their other choice is to NOT have their event. They are making the choice to promote their chosen agenda within the restrictions of current politics. Don't blame the messenger for the mixed message, blame the organizations forcing the second message.

+1

I said it first, you said it better. :p


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Elimsitna

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West Seattle
Which is why I wanted to know the actual legal verbiage they are bound by. I am also surprised how people are so passive about this. Seems like the kind of thing that would case a "starbucks" reaction.

I would bet that the city/insurence is implying that you must ban firearms, while the verbiage falls into "follow state/local laws" category.

Also, on order for the private property/tresspass thing to happen wouldn't one of the leaseies have to be ones to ask you to leave?
 

gogodawgs

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Which is why I wanted to know the actual legal verbiage they are bound by. I am also surprised how people are so passive about this. Seems like the kind of thing that would case a "starbucks" reaction.

I would bet that the city/insurence is implying that you must ban firearms, while the verbiage falls into "follow state/local laws" category.

Also, on order for the private property/tresspass thing to happen wouldn't one of the leaseies have to be ones to ask you to leave?

From the Libertarian point of view...yes.

However, spend some more time on the website, read the rules. One of the primary rules is that "(15) WE ADVOCATE FOR THE 'LAW-ABIDING' ONLY: Posts advocating illegal acts of any kind are NOT welcome here. Even if you feel that a law is unconstitutional we do not break it, we repeal it or defeat it in the courts."

At this point marijuana is illegal. Wrongly so in my opinion. Until MJ becomes legal it is a tough subject.... The drug that Starbucks sells is legal.
 

jbone

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WA
The politics is obvious; it’s everywhere, at every level of everything. Perhaps I came on too strong for some, oh well. My intention is not really to blame, but to point out the two faced nature of the Seattle Hempfest, and how I couldn’t imagine anyone from OCDO wanting to attend this right restrictive venue.

Daily, OCDO members, and some of those commenting on this topic fight the fight in advancing, and improving the right to carry. Then with the same fingers type things like makes sense, not have the event, they were forced to; BS. They could have found an American rights friendly city but choose not to, why, because like the occupiers their right trumps yours; bottom line!


I think we should be asking why the nuts of OCDO drop and then again rescind. In the past any topic of restriction was met with fury. Now we roll over with a host of excuses, and join the others in the right to restrict others. That’s the signal being sent on acceptance of this restriction by another group. I can’t wait for the next topic of some restriction, and watch the rants come out of the woodwork.
 

BigDave

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I cannot see how this will help Open or Concealed Carry Supporters to tie it to promoting a drug that is illegal, it can only draw more negatives then positives.
 

jbone

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I cannot see how this will help Open or Concealed Carry Supporters to tie it to promoting a drug that is illegal, it can only draw more negatives then positives.

No argument there, and also cannot see how some folks on the forum cave into the restriction, just excepting it to be near the dope I guess, and, after all the talk-the-talk on other restrictive measures generating discussion on the forum. Just phonies, or willing to make concessions where best for them. Hell even I make concessions, I shop on base.
 

Elimsitna

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West Seattle
No one in this thread is advocating to the use- or possession-of an illegal substance...
I'm pretty sure everyone here is disscussing "Hempfest(tm)"

A legal gathering, Free-to-public, hosted in Seattle city parks. Which is saying (assuming the user is actually related to the Org) that they HAVE to ban guns for their insurance. ((aka "I'm just a manager, its a company policy")) So their insurance is SO opposed to the legal acts of law-abiding citizens it DEMANDS that anyone who wants to use them restrict the rights of the people at their event.

If this is peachy-keen, why doesn't seattle just lease the parks to... McGinn(or anyone for that matter)... and then HE can ban guns in the parks cause they are leased to him.

I have less then zero interest in hempfest. More power to them. Thats not why I'm curious.
I'm curious cause if they can do it, doesn't that mean Pride/CeaseFire/Seattle can?
 

1245A Defender

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north mason county, Washington, USA
well,,,

It is patently illegal, and against state preemption,
to lease or rent "a public space/place",
then allow or require the "renter/leasee"
to impose restrictions on the lawfull/rightful actions of the "public/owners" of that "space/place"!
 
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sudden valley gunner

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Whatcom County
From the Libertarian point of view...yes.

However, spend some more time on the website, read the rules. One of the primary rules is that "(15) WE ADVOCATE FOR THE 'LAW-ABIDING' ONLY: Posts advocating illegal acts of any kind are NOT welcome here. Even if you feel that a law is unconstitutional we do not break it, we repeal it or defeat it in the courts."

At this point marijuana is illegal. Wrongly so in my opinion. Until MJ becomes legal it is a tough subject.... The drug that Starbucks sells is legal.

I cannot see how this will help Open or Concealed Carry Supporters to tie it to promoting a drug that is illegal, it can only draw more negatives then positives.

No body is advocating breaking the law no one is promoting an illegal drug, one that may not be illegal for too much longer and one that on a constitutional level isn't really illegal now. There is a lot more to Hemp than getting high.

The rigid progressive neocon view of controlling what people do with their bodies or use of hemp for the other useful purposes is doing plenty harm to the cause of liberty, which firearms are embedded into our National and State constitutions to protect.

If we maintain such rigid view points contrary to liberty it will do our cause a lot more harm than those who are too shortsighted or blinded by their own limited thought process or by hate that they can't see the larger picture. One that is based on false propaganda, religious control, huge lobby interests, and racism. The old gun crowd will die away as the newer younger more open minded folks won't have anything to do with them when they equate them to arrogant, stubborn, fascist who hold fast to fake "conservative" values.
 

jbone

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WA
...I'm pretty sure everyone here is disscussing "Hempfest(tm)"

Wrong! It is about OC, go back to the OP, post # 1. This is very typical in others to subvert, or pervert the topic early-on, confusing others about the true nature of discussion.
The socialist Liberals, confused progressives, and blind dreaming libertarians will crap on the whole for personal needs and desires, and always regardless of the norms of society.
That's very clear to this proud member of the dying conservative bread :cool:
 

deepdiver

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Ok, hempfest, MJ, whatever, I think the OP comment has been fully addressed as to the specific event (in some rather arrogant, snotty language by a few with a rather eyebrow raising disparagement of midwesterners as well, but addressing that specifically takes us far OT).

My confusion is this: I thought there was a whole big deal in WA about preemption and that private organizations renting/leasing a public space were generally not allowed to ban firearms (as mentioned earlier in this thread). I thought that was the whole big thing with Hippy Music Fest or whatever it is called a few years ago after the ND. I obviously missed something or something was clarified/changed while I wasn't around here for a while. Can one of the WA members update on the status of this matter?
 

Metalhead47

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Ok, hempfest, MJ, whatever, I think the OP comment has been fully addressed as to the specific event (in some rather arrogant, snotty language by a few with a rather eyebrow raising disparagement of midwesterners as well, but addressing that specifically takes us far OT).

My confusion is this: I thought there was a whole big deal in WA about preemption and that private organizations renting/leasing a public space were generally not allowed to ban firearms (as mentioned earlier in this thread). I thought that was the whole big thing with Hippy Music Fest or whatever it is called a few years ago after the ND. I obviously missed something or something was clarified/changed while I wasn't around here for a while. Can one of the WA members update on the status of this matter?

As I understand it, it wasn't an ND at the hippy music fest, a bunch of hippies saw that a citizen who was bothering no one was lawfully carrying concealed, and attempted to assault him, and he shot back supposedly in self defense. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but I understand the legitimacy of that act is still up for debate.

Anyways, that's what really started the city's "off the record" push for it's lessees to forbid firearms. The short version is, when a private organization is leasing city property for an "exclusive" event, the city property essentially becomes private property for the duration of that event. Guns aren't banned per se, but like any other private property you can be asked to leave for any reason or no reason, and trespassed if you refuse. I believe there's also language in state law now specifically prohibiting weapons at "music festivals" over 5000 people or so.
 

deepdiver

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As I understand it, it wasn't an ND at the hippy music fest, a bunch of hippies saw that a citizen who was bothering no one was lawfully carrying concealed, and attempted to assault him, and he shot back supposedly in self defense. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but I understand the legitimacy of that act is still up for debate.

Anyways, that's what really started the city's "off the record" push for it's lessees to forbid firearms. The short version is, when a private organization is leasing city property for an "exclusive" event, the city property essentially becomes private property for the duration of that event. Guns aren't banned per se, but like any other private property you can be asked to leave for any reason or no reason, and trespassed if you refuse. I believe there's also language in state law now specifically prohibiting weapons at "music festivals" over 5000 people or so.

Thanks for the update and clarifications! It's appreciated.
 

Elimsitna

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West Seattle
I'm pretty sure the "large event" ban in rcw's has an exemption for cpl holders.
Least the stadium/convention hall limit does as per rcw 9.41.300
 

Elimsitna

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I saw no such mention of metal's "5000+ music festival"(which I then called large event) reference in the rcw. Though once I found the reference I recalled I stoped looking. But unless it's a specific rcw for "music festivals" it should be listed under 9.41.300. *shrug*
 

BigDave

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I saw no such mention of metal's "5000+ music festival"(which I then called large event) reference in the rcw. Though once I found the reference I recalled I stopped looking. But unless it's a specific rcw for "music festivals" it should be listed under 9.41.300. *shrug*

Yes there is an RCW for Outdoor Music Festival or Music Festival or Festival nor with an exception for cpl holders. In RCW 9.41.300, No but it would be easier to find.


RCW 70.108.020
Definitions.

For the purposes of this chapter the following words and phrases shall have the indicated meanings:

(1) "Outdoor music festival" or "music festival" or "festival" means an assembly of persons gathered primarily for outdoor, live or recorded musical entertainment, where the predicted attendance is two thousand persons or more and where the duration of the program is five hours or longer: PROVIDED, That this definition shall not be applied to any regularly established permanent place of worship, stadium, athletic field, arena, auditorium, coliseum, or other similar permanently established places of assembly for assemblies which do not exceed by more than two hundred fifty people the maximum seating capacity of the structure where the assembly is held: PROVIDED, FURTHER, That this definition shall not apply to government sponsored fairs held on regularly established fairgrounds nor to assemblies required to be licensed under other laws or regulations of the state.

(2) "Promoter" means any person or other legal entity issued a permit to conduct an outdoor music festival.

(3) "Applicant" means the promoter who has the right of control of the conduct of an outdoor music festival who applies to the appropriate legislative authority for a license to hold an outdoor music festival.

(4) "Issuing authority" means the legislative body of the local governmental unit where the site for an outdoor music festival is located.

(5) "Participate" means to knowingly provide or deliver to the festival site supplies, materials, food, lumber, beverages, sound equipment, generators, or musical entertainment and/or to attend a music festival. A person shall be presumed to have knowingly provided as that phrase is used herein after he has been served with a court order.

RCW 70.108.150 Firearms — Penalty.

It shall be unlawful for any person, except law enforcement officers, to carry, transport or convey, or to have in his possession or under his control any firearm while on the site of an outdoor music festival.

Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction thereof shall be punished by a fine of not less than one hundred dollars and not more than two hundred dollars or by imprisonment in the county jail for not less than ten days and not more than ninety days or by both such fine and imprisonment.
 
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Elimsitna

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(1) "Outdoor music festival" or "music festival" or "festival" means an assembly of persons gathered primarily for outdoor, live or recorded musical entertainment, where the predicted attendance is two thousand persons or more and where the duration of the program is five hours or longer: PROVIDED, That this definition shall not be applied to any regularly established permanent place of worship, stadium, athletic field, arena, auditorium, coliseum, or other similar permanently established places of assembly for assemblies which do not exceed by more than two hundred fifty people the maximum seating capacity of the structure where the assembly is held: PROVIDED, FURTHER, That this definition shall not apply to government sponsored fairs held on regularly established fairgrounds nor to assemblies required to be licensed under other laws or regulations of the state.

So... Is Hempfest a music festival or some other kind of gathering?
 

BigDave

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(1) "Outdoor music festival" or "music festival" or "festival" means an assembly of persons gathered primarily for outdoor, live or recorded musical entertainment, where the predicted attendance is two thousand persons or more and where the duration of the program is five hours or longer: PROVIDED, That this definition shall not be applied to any regularly established permanent place of worship, stadium, athletic field, arena, auditorium, coliseum, or other similar permanently established places of assembly for assemblies which do not exceed by more than two hundred fifty people the maximum seating capacity of the structure where the assembly is held: PROVIDED, FURTHER, That this definition shall not apply to government sponsored fairs held on regularly established fairgrounds nor to assemblies required to be licensed under other laws or regulations of the state.

So... Is Hempfest a music festival or some other kind of gathering?

Hemfest is not a music festival as in the definition in RCW RCW 70.108.020.

Note your bolded portion, you must use the entire paragraph not just a portion of one sentence that one wants to apply.

RCW 70.108.020 Definitions.

For the purposes of this chapter the following words and phrases shall have the indicated meanings:

(1) "Outdoor music festival" or "music festival" or "festival" means an assembly of persons gathered primarily for outdoor, live or recorded musical entertainment, where the predicted attendance is two thousand persons or more and where the duration of the program is five hours or longer:

PROVIDED, That this definition shall not be applied to any regularly established permanent place of worship, stadium, athletic field, arena, auditorium, coliseum, or other similar permanently established places of assembly for assemblies which do not exceed by more than two hundred fifty people the maximum seating capacity of the structure where the assembly is held:


PROVIDED, FURTHER,
That this definition shall not apply to government sponsored fairs held on regularly established fairgrounds nor to assemblies required to be licensed under other laws or regulations of the state.

emphasis added by me.
 
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