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Question about varying laws between states

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
No worries GS! With all the info you hold, getting something wrong is bound to happen.

Legal by default. CC in a vehicle is illegal without a recognized CC permit. Without a permit pistols must be unloaded.

--snipped--

Bottom line then is that with my VA CHP (not recognized) I cannot CC. OC is OK, but must unload in vehicle - makes no sense with all of the extra handling, but must abide.

Even the Utah permit doesn't help :(
 

Brace

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2013
Messages
183
Location
Colorado
Ok, I'd just like to clarify something given that I will be OC'ing in Portland:

Maine Statutes 17-A 108 1A said:
A person is not justified in using nondeadly force against another person who that person knows or
reasonably should know is a law enforcement officer attempting to effect an arrest or detention, regardless of
whether the arrest or detention is legal. A person is justified in using the degree of nondeadly force the person
reasonably believes is necessary to defend the person or a 3rd person against a law enforcement officer who,
in effecting an arrest or detention, uses nondeadly force not justified under section 107, subsection 1
.

Maine Statutes 17-A 107 1 said:
1. A law enforcement officer is justified in using a reasonable degree of nondeadly force upon another person:
A. When and to the extent that the officer reasonably believes it necessary to effect an arrest or to prevent the escape from custody of an arrested person, unless the officer knows that the arrest or detention is illegal; or
B. In self-defense or to defend a 3rd person from what the officer reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful nondeadly force encountered while attempting to effect such an arrest or while seeking to prevent such an escape.

So in conjunction, this means I'm allowed to use deadly force against a police officer if they attempt to illegally arrest me using deadly force; IE, if I ask them what law I'm breaking, and they can't answer, but then draw a firearm on me or make a motion to draw a firearm on me? But if it were a taser or mace that would be non-deadly force and I would have to comply even in spite of the illegality? Or if they have some suspicion of wrongdoing no matter how stupid then I have to comply? I just want to be clear on this one point, I am extremely uncomfortable with Portland PD at the moment. It actually makes it more urgent that I carry though because it implies I can't count on them to protect me.
 

boyscout399

Regular Member
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
905
Location
Lyman, Maine
Ok, I'd just like to clarify something given that I will be OC'ing in Portland:





So in conjunction, this means I'm allowed to use deadly force against a police officer if they attempt to illegally arrest me using deadly force; IE, if I ask them what law I'm breaking, and they can't answer, but then draw a firearm on me or make a motion to draw a firearm on me? But if it were a taser or mace that would be non-deadly force and I would have to comply even in spite of the illegality? Or if they have some suspicion of wrongdoing no matter how stupid then I have to comply? I just want to be clear on this one point, I am extremely uncomfortable with Portland PD at the moment. It actually makes it more urgent that I carry though because it implies I can't count on them to protect me.


NOOOOO!!! Re-read that. You can use NON-deadly force if the officer is using non-deadly force knowingly in violation of that section. You cannot use deadly force.
 

Brace

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2013
Messages
183
Location
Colorado
Ok, that's an important distinction. But if they escalate to the use of deadly force from illegitimate non-deadly force, what then?
 

SPOProds

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
464
Location
Orono, ME
Okay for what? using deadly force against a police officer? No. You would not be okay on paper EVER for using deadly force on someone you know to be a police officer.

I disagree. Not legally but morally. And some states differ. However in Maine totally agreement, take the ride, fight it after.

Individually Responsible.
Sent from the back of a black van
 

ccwinstructor

Centurion
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
919
Location
Yuma, Arizona, USA
As this was Portland, Their Police Chief is Strongly anti-open carry

Well, I called Portland PD's information line. The conversation went something like this (summarizing):

"Hi, I'd just like to get some information on the legality of Open Carry. If you're not federally prohibited from owning a firearm then you're legally allowed to carry it, correct?"
"That's right, but with that sort of thing it's also a matter of how you do it. If you're just carrying and wandering around, y'know... like if a woman is at a park with her kids and sees someone wandering around with a gun on their hip, they're going to feel intimidated. If you put your hand on your gun in a way that makes someone think you're going to draw on them that's harassing or intimidating and against the law."
"Right."
"And people can feel intimidated by anything, and it's really just a matter of whether they feel intimidated or not, so you can't just wander around..."
"Well there are specific laws regarding brandishing so that's not exactly accurate. Whether someone feels uncomfortable isn't really the same thing..."
"It is the same thing. If you're wandering around with a gun then people are going to be uncomfortable and that's harassment."
"There are specific laws about harassment and that's not really true"
"Well if you already knew then why are you calling me?"
"That's not what I called to ask you"
"Alright, you've got another question then bro?"
"...yeah. I'm just wondering, if you have a record but it doesn't prohibit you from being able to own a firearm, then you're still legally allowed to carry, yes?"
"Well it depends entirely on the record. Not all records are going to allow you to be able to own a firearm. If you have a restraining order or a felony..."
"Right, I know that, that's why I qualified my question."
"You know what dude, if you're going to be a smart ass then this conversation is done. [Some sort of moral grandstanding that I didn't hear because I hung up at this point]"

So I'm kind of unsure of the situation at present. The only straight answer I've gotten to my question here or anywhere was Nightmare's which was vague, unsupported with any evidence, and grammatically awkward. So really I have no answer to this at all, and now it's clear that Portland PD are unprofessional and biased about this subject.

I guess it's worth noting even if it subjects me to some harassment on these forums that I'm MtF transsexual as well and not exactly very good looking, so the whole "getting harassed by cops" thing is liable to be compounded by that, let alone the "making random soccer moms upset so that they call the cops" thing. What I would really like is a cite to precedent or statute or some other professional opinion, addressing the exact question I laid out in the OP. At the very least, an entire paragraph worth of answer on Nightmare's assertion (that if a record doesn't prohibit you from owning a firearm, but the actions that lead to that record would have prohibited you from owning a firearm had they occurred in the state of carry, you're not allowed to carry). I feel like all I'm getting right now is jerked around.

I wonder if this has anything to do with Carlos Reed being arrested and harrassed:

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...olice-Chill-Second-and-First-Amendment-Rights

People have been asking for a way to contact Carlos or his attorney. Anyone from Maine have any contact information?
 

ccwinstructor

Centurion
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
919
Location
Yuma, Arizona, USA
Police officers do not have immunity to murder

Okay for what? using deadly force against a police officer? No. You would not be okay on paper EVER for using deadly force on someone you know to be a police officer.

It is legal to use deadly force against a police officer pretty much in the same way as it is legal to use it against anyone else.

The confusion is because a police officer has some immunities for the performance of their official duties. Murder is not an official police duty.

Just consider the officer now being prosecuted for the assault in the mass motorcycle incident in New York.
 
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