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Previous mental illness and handguns

solus

Regular Member
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Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
Most of the time what I see they get a very friendly welcome and answers to their questions but a lot them never show up again.

thank you for recognizing all member's contributions to newbie's queries.

but if FI, et al., like this OP she cannot overcome their judicial firearm quandary, is there any reason for them to further participate in an open carry firearm forum?

finally, no...no, i shan't go there to satisfy the naysayers, as Bush stated, it is a kinder, gentler nation!
 

countryclubjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
2,505
Location
nj
It could be that the treatment they get here makes them not want to repeat the experience.

Please cite any cases where a first time poster seeking assistance was harshly treated.. Your inflammatory conjecture is noted.

My .02
CCJ
 

countryclubjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
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Location
nj
I see no harsh treatment either.

"There is none so blind as those who will not see"--- Nightmare-- :bang head:

" Talent hits a target no one else can hit, genius hits a target no one else can see"- Arthur Schopenhauer

Grape,May be I have underestimated the genius of our esteemed member Nightmare or may be I am simply blind, in either case I shall await said proofs from Gutshot II.

My .02
CCJ
 

Kelley_c

Newbie
Joined
Aug 29, 2017
Messages
5
Location
Alamance county, nc
I didn't respond because I didn't know anyone had replied. I thought I would get email notifications if anyone replied and I didn't so I just now looked to see if anything was there. So, no, I am not a troll but I also don't stay online constantly.

No one ever even considered taking my guns because I was never a danger to anyone: never suicidal, never homicidal, and never violent. My main issue was debilitating anxiety which was the cause of the depression and psychosis. My psychosis wasn't like the situations that you hear horror stories about. I didn't hear voices, I didn't see things, I didn't think I needed to hurt my baby. It was nothing more than me doing things to an extreme to protect my daughter because of my anxiety. I would stay awake for days at a time, I wouldn't allow anyone to see her, we made numerous trips to the ER because I was convinced she had one ailment or another. It got out of control and was irrational so they diagnosed it as psychosis. Never once did I try or want to hurt anyone, including myself. And yes, I am "still under psychiatric care" but only because we are planning our second child and they have to follow you through that process and with the complications and dangers I have concerning pregnancy they want to make sure I have support in place should history repeat itself and I have the same pregnancy complications. I have weaned off the meds and have no issues whatsoever now. And the issues I did have were postpartum, which means they are temporary and not life-long. I am no more of a threat than anyone else here and have no current mental illness diagnosis. Postpartum mood disorders are not all dramatic and tragic events, but you don't hear about the majority of these experiences because there's nothing to tell. My hospitalization was involuntary because I couldn't make myself separate from my daughter. I didn't fight them on it but I couldn't willingly leave her because of my anxiety. Once we managed my anxiety and I came to terms with what happened when my daughter was born my depression ceased.
This is the exact attitude I am worried about being met with by the sheriffs dept because they will see the words psychosis and depression and take it at its worst. And yes, my psychiatrist is very understanding, but she gave her approval because she knows I'm past everything that happened and have no reason for those issues to resurface as I am not in the postpartum period anymore.
If I am not wanted in this forum then just say so and I won't come back. I don't need criticism and judgment. My postpartum illnesses do not define me.
 

countryclubjoe

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Mar 3, 2013
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nj
I seem to recall another thread however I cannot locate said thread, where a gentleman was ordered by the court to surrender his weapons due in part to some criminal chargers involving his wife.. Apparently the wife was restricted from being around any guns... Im sure someone can locate said thread.

CCJ
 

bc.cruiser

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
786
Location
Fayetteville NC
sigh, while it is understood this is, by statute, a shall issue concept, but realistically who, based solely on their judgement, may deny the citizen's PPP or CHP application ~ the sheriff, er sorry underling, who knows nothing except they received a positive hit on the mental health documents.

(that is after $90 non-refundable permit fee is submitted not counting the fees paid for the 8+ hour conceal carry course)

additionally, the op must submit notarized documents to release mental health information (page 4) as well as notarized application stating they do not suffer from a mental health infirmity (q 4); are or previously adjudicated or administratively determine to be lacking mental capacity or mentally ill (q 11).

(lot of good the note from a psychiatrist would do at this point BC since this note/document would now raise the question from the sheriff of "why are you under the care of a mental health professional").

once denied, for whatever rational, the citizen must now approach the county courts for adjudication of the sheriff's decision. then the same question will surface, especially with the psychiatrist's note ~ why were you under the care of a mental health professional, then the gauntlet of 14-409.42, Restoration process to remove mental commitment bar, begins with the county's DA presenting in District Court, and as everyone has stated, you should have the professional guidance of a barrister to present, quote: The burden is on the petitioner to establish by a preponderance of the evidence that the petitioner will not be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety and that the granting of the relief would not be contrary to the public interest. unquote. (ya BC a note from the psychiatrist will be a preponderance!)


wait, we have not discerned if by federal law the OP meet question 11f ~ opps another disqualifier on the sheriff's questionnaire q 6.

so yes BC, et al., please advise this kind woman, who was involuntarily hospitalized less than a year ago for a Major Depressive Disorder and all the psychosis that accompany the same, who, apparently, is still under a psychiatrist's care, to spend $$$ for a course, $$$ to be considered of a CHP, and then $$$$$$$$$$$$ for an attorney to adjudicate the fall out.

where did common sense elude you BC?

Your condescension and sarcasm is noted. Again.

Apparently I am guilty of putting things out of order: Get the attorney. The attorney will help you: Get the medical opinion; clear the record; and then, advise you on completing (hopefully successfully) the CHP packet. The NCGS sections I consider relevant have already been posted so I will not repeat them.
 
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solus

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Aug 22, 2013
Messages
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Location
here nc
Your condescension and sarcasm is noted. Again.

Apparently I am guilty of putting things out of order: Get the attorney. The attorney will help you: Get the medical opinion; clear the record; and then, advise you on completing (hopefully successfully) the CHP packet. The NCGS sections I consider relevant have already been posted so I will not repeat them.

your continued animosity being shown is truly appalling and getting quite olde.

please advise this august group about your understanding of the NC's good olde boy network to succeed, w/mental health permission slip notwithstanding, that the OP, after spending $90 for their permit, will actually receive one?

you come along, Johnny-come-lately, razzle and dazzle quoting chapter of the governing statues, that YOU feel relevant, but not the verse, and say everything will be fine go forth and prosper!

that is quite an optimistic but unrealistic view of the world, especially NC. truth be told, the little piece of paper will become their quest for the holy grail.

btw, as mentioned, when was the last time you knew a mental health professional state the would give the client, who within the past year was involuntarily hospitalized with a major depressive disorder & possibly still taking psycotropic meds, a written blessing they could apply for the document necessary to purchase handguns. remember the outraged forum discussions re FL's MDs asking patients if there are firearms in their environment, and then you have the audacity to belive a MH professional would capitulate and put that type of statement in writing for their client?

finally, there was no sarcasm!
 

Kelley_c

Newbie
Joined
Aug 29, 2017
Messages
5
Location
Alamance county, nc
It doesn't seem as though anyone here understands postpartum mood disorders. It is not a lifelong diagnosis, and is not the same as having depression and other mood disorders. My guns have not been taken nor was it ever considered because I was not a threat to anyone. I was never suicidal, homicidal, or violent. My psychosis was a manifestation of my anxiety. I never acted out towards anyone, I didn't hear voices, I didn't see things. It was diagnosed as psychosis but it was not like the stories you hear where mothers lose control and do horrible things. I would stay up for days to watch my daughter sleep for fear that she would stop breathing, I wouldn't allow anyone near her for fear of her getting sick, I took her to the ER numerous times because I was convinced something was wrong. It was nothing more than extreme reactions to my anxiety. The "two year" comment isn't relevant because postpartum mood disorders do not last that long. The police were never involved. There was never any dramatic event around my hospitalization. It was involuntary because I wouldn't sign the papers myself because I didn't want to be away from my daughter. I am as sane as anyone here and no one has any reason to doubt my ability to own guns. There is no need for a debate about whether or not our guns should have been taken or my current mental health. I can see that this wasn't the right place to ask.
 

JoeSparky

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Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,621
Location
Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
Back to the ORIGINAL TOPIC------
Does one not need to be "adjudicated" as mentally deficient as in a COURT PROCEEDING not just having a remote history of a 3 day "hold" for evaluation before losing ones right to keep and bear arms under current law regarding mental illness or low IQ?
 
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WalkingWolf

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Jul 31, 2011
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North Carolina
Involuntary commitment is a judicial process.

A doctor in most states can involuntary commit without a judge, it is temporary unless the patient does not improve. I have seen people in IL spend years in psychs wards without ever seeing a judge, if the family signs the papers, the doctor agrees, and the patient never demands a hearing.

OP have you filled out a 4473 for a firearm purchase? If so how did you answer the 11f? Did you pass a background check?

You will have to sign a release for med records to get a CHP, I am not sure exactly what they encompass outside of a judicial commitment. On federal form 4473 if your doctor no longer consider you not sane you can answer no on a non judicial involuntary commitment. It is common for some women to go through what you did, it should not stick with you for the rest of your life, you may have to go to a judge to have those records blocked, even with your signature on a release form.

All else fails you can carry a cap and ball revolver legally open carried with no PPP, and no 4473. You can also open carry a taser in NC, as well as conceal carry pepper spray, or open. Sabre has gel with a 18 ft range, Mace has a 25 foot range, Kimber pepper blaster is only 13ft but it is over 100 mph delivery. Taser pulse has a 15 ft range, but only holds one cartridge. A antique firearm can be purchased online, and shipped directly to your door.

While a knife is not the best SD weapon, in some cases it can be effective, but requires hand to hand combat skills. A knife large enough to penetrate deep to get an artery would need to be open carried in NC, spring loaded knives must also be open carried. I suggest also getting a flashlight with the highest lumen output you can get, at least 1000 lumen, 2000 would be better.
 
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solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
It doesn't seem as though anyone here understands postpartum mood disorders. It is not a lifelong diagnosis, and is not the same as having depression and other mood disorders. My guns have not been taken nor was it ever considered because I was not a threat to anyone. I was never suicidal, homicidal, or violent. My psychosis was a manifestation of my anxiety. I never acted out towards anyone, I didn't hear voices, I didn't see things. It was diagnosed as psychosis but it was not like the stories you hear where mothers lose control and do horrible things. I would stay up for days to watch my daughter sleep for fear that she would stop breathing, I wouldn't allow anyone near her for fear of her getting sick, I took her to the ER numerous times because I was convinced something was wrong. It was nothing more than extreme reactions to my anxiety. The "two year" comment isn't relevant because postpartum mood disorders do not last that long. The police were never involved. There was never any dramatic event around my hospitalization. It was involuntary because I wouldn't sign the papers myself because I didn't want to be away from my daughter. I am as sane as anyone here and no one has any reason to doubt my ability to own guns. There is no need for a debate about whether or not our guns should have been taken or my current mental health. I can see that this wasn't the right place to ask.


OP, sorry to disappoint you in your perception this was the wrong place to ask your question!


However, if, if, you yourself did not have reservations and significant concerns regarding your notarizing your signature on the Sheriff's mental health release to be sent to Alamance county's local hospitals and mental health agencies then why didn't you put in the application to the Sheriff initially?


OP, your statement you are providing regaling your symptoms as well as your lack of functionality illuminates the grip your major mood disorder (yes a rose by any other name is MDD) was affecting you and how the disorder was disrupted your overall cognition capabilities.


i personally hope you are still under a MH provider's care and i hope you will retell them your commentary mentioned above regarding your apparent minimumalization of your MH issues, i believe you will find you might cause them some concern!


as for discerning the sanity of the members on this forum, i do believe the response might be mixed depending on the responder.


finally Ms Kelley, you initially provided minimal information, asked a question on this public forum, where your information was dissected and applied against a myriad of member's knowledge and experience w/multiple options postulated which seem to have a common theme ~ go find an attorney.


as is common from this group there are side discussions which may or may not be applicable or germane to your original question. that you take exception to the side discussions should not distract you from the main response ~ go find an attorney nor should these side discussion dissuade you from a hearty thank you, (forgive the candor) instead of unwarranted criticism.


please to fill out the sheriff's CHP application and report back in 6 weeks or so and let this august group know the outcome.
 

solus

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Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
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here nc
Back to the ORIGINAL TOPIC------
Does one not need to be "adjudicated" as mentally deficient as in a COURT PROCEEDING not just having a remote history of a 3 day "hold" for evaluation before losing ones right to keep and bear arms under current law regarding mental illness or low IQ?

please do not add confusion of terms to this discussion...

'mental illness' is not equatable to 'low IQ'

your lack of understanding with the use of the term 'mental deficient' is quite telling and quite insulting to those who are suffer from MH issues as well as those having a lower IQs then you anticipate.

back to your query, the problem is the sheriff, upon receiving a citizen's request for a CHP, sends the mental health release to the local hospitals as well as community MH providers for their input (all normally tied electronically together), additionally another notarized release is sent to the community courts for any DV, formal MH judicial ordered commitments, felony, DWI, etc., as well as judicial outcomes of same.

then the good sheriff's underling, following very basic guidance, decides if the citizen's CHP should be approved or denied.

remember, the CHP is but one document for NC's citizens can use to purchase handguns. the pistol purchase permit is the other and to the best of my knowledge does not require the MH or court releases.
 
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color of law

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Oct 7, 2007
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5,936
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
NORTH CAROLINA STATE CONSTITUTION
Sec. 30. Militia and the right to bear arms.
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; and, as standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they shall not be maintained, and the military shall be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power. Nothing herein shall justify the practice of carrying concealed weapons, or prevent the General Assembly from enacting penal statutes against that practice.
Some cities/counties have ordinances against open carry.

Based on the constitution, where does the legislators get the authority to allow cities/counties to disallow open carry? My point for the question is this, setting aside the persons legal mental incompetent status, what stops this person from privately purchasing a firearm and openly carrying said firearm?
 

OC for ME

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White Oak Plantation
A doctor in most states can involuntary commit without a judge, it is temporary unless the patient does not improve. ...
This is far worse than QI. A shrink can attest to anything and the courts will abide the shrink without question. A later date will administer whether the shrink was right or wrong. remember, cops are in the legal and illegal business, not the right or wrong business. Shrinks enjoy absolute immunity.
 

WalkingWolf

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Jul 31, 2011
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North Carolina
NORTH CAROLINA STATE CONSTITUTION
Some cities/counties have ordinances against open carry.

Based on the constitution, where does the legislators get the authority to allow cities/counties to disallow open carry? My point for the question is this, setting aside the persons legal mental incompetent status, what stops this person from privately purchasing a firearm and openly carrying said firearm?

No they don't some have laws against display which is not open carry, putting a gun on a dash, table, or holding it in the hand is display. I have OC's in many of those cities with display laws, either the police don't care, or they know it is not meant for OC.
 
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