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Presidential Authority to Declare a National Emergency

CJ4wd

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Jun 22, 2017
Messages
353
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Planet Earth
Years ago, when somebody (usually a Brit) wanted to bum a cigarette from a friend, they would ask for a "fag".
 

since9

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There are other ways to get the wall built instead of using the nuclear option.

The wall costs less than $10 billion, one-time expense.

Undocumented aliens cost the states just over $90 billion each and every year.

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out where the money comes from. It's like investing in high-mileage tires that pay for themselves over their 50,000 mile lifetime. It's like my friend designing and building his own solar array, battery storage bank, and power conditioning, because $6,000 do-it-yourself paid for itself in 5.5 years vs connecting to the grid. It's like buying Carhart jeans because instead of falling apart in six months, they usually last about two years.
 

since9

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The National Emergencies act should never have been passed. No one man should have that much power in government.

No government should have so much gridlock than the government cannot move and do what needs to be done in times of national emergency.

You forget: CONGRESS passed the National Emergencies Act. They were the ones who gave limited additional authority for the President to act under certain circumstances because they were well aware of the fact that depending on their own balance of power between the parties and the houses, they might not be able to act at all when the nation really needed it.

The Constitution did not grant the president that much power for a reason

The Constitution grants Congress the authority to craft needful legislation such as the National Emergencies Act in order to maintain the smooth and timely operation of the government.

Specifically:

Article I Section 8: "To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof."

THAT'S the authority behind the National Emergencies Act.

That and this:

Article I Section 7: "Every Order, Resolution, or Vote to which the Concurrence of the Senate and House of Representatives may be necessary (except on a question of Adjournment) shall be presented to the President of the United States; and before the Same shall take Effect, shall be approved by him, or being disapproved by him, shall be repassed by two thirds of the Senate and House of Representatives, according to the Rules and Limitations prescribed in the Case of a Bill."

You see, Ghost, Congress passed the National Emergencies Act. The President signed it.

and congress if it had a half a brain between all of them should repeal that I'll concived act .

Congress DID have half a brain, which is WHY the crafted the Act and passed it to the President for his signature.

Or would you rather Congress remain gridlocked during times of National Emergency when there's no TIME for them to unglue themselves?

In peacetime, you can afford to have a bunch of cooks in the kitchen all arguing about doing this or that to solve some minor problem.

But when the problem is major -- and the $90.5 billion undocumented aliens' annual drain on the states alone is a major problem -- you need sound, decisive leadership, not gridlock.

I, for one, am very glad for the Act, glad the GOP mostly green-lighted his declaration in late January, and that President Trump is going ahead with it.

After all, failing to pay $10 billion or less for a wall when undocumented aliens cost the states more than $90 billion annually is just plain stupid.
 

Ghost1958

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Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
1,265
Location
Kentucky
No government should have so much gridlock than the government cannot move and do what needs to be done in times of national emergency.

You forget: CONGRESS passed the National Emergencies Act. They were the ones who gave limited additional authority for the President to act under certain circumstances because they were well aware of the fact that depending on their own balance of power between the parties and the houses, they might not be able to act at all when the nation really needed it.



The Constitution grants Congress the authority to craft needful legislation such as the National Emergencies Act in order to maintain the smooth and timely operation of the government.

Specifically:

Article I Section 8: "To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof."

THAT'S the authority behind the National Emergencies Act.

That and this:

Article I Section 7: "Every Order, Resolution, or Vote to which the Concurrence of the Senate and House of Representatives may be necessary (except on a question of Adjournment) shall be presented to the President of the United States; and before the Same shall take Effect, shall be approved by him, or being disapproved by him, shall be repassed by two thirds of the Senate and House of Representatives, according to the Rules and Limitations prescribed in the Case of a Bill."

You see, Ghost, Congress passed the National Emergencies Act. The President signed it.



Congress DID have half a brain, which is WHY the crafted the Act and passed it to the President for his signature.

Or would you rather Congress remain gridlocked during times of National Emergency when there's no TIME for them to unglue themselves?

In peacetime, you can afford to have a bunch of cooks in the kitchen all arguing about doing this or that to solve some minor problem.

But when the problem is major -- and the $90.5 billion undocumented aliens' annual drain on the states alone is a major problem -- you need sound, decisive leadership, not gridlock.

I, for one, am very glad for the Act, glad the GOP mostly green-lighted his declaration in late January, and that President Trump is going ahead with it.

After all, failing to pay $10 billion or less for a wall when undocumented aliens cost the states more than $90 billion annually is just plain stupid.

Eh no. I didn't forget congress passed the NEA. They passed the NFA, and GCA too. Glad they passed them?

Its a miracle the country survived between 1776 and 1976 when this wonderful bunch of tripe was passed by congress giving the president a power no presidents had BEFORE 1976.

If the founders wanted one man in gov to have that much power they would have granted the President that then.

They didn't. They had just fought a war to be free of gov where to much power was wielded by one man.
The NEA was a massive mistake. Just because Congress passes something in no way makes it a smart or constitutional.
 

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
1,265
Location
Kentucky
No government should have so much gridlock than the government cannot move and do what needs to be done in times of national emergency.

You forget: CONGRESS passed the National Emergencies Act. They were the ones who gave limited additional authority for the President to act under certain circumstances because they were well aware of the fact that depending on their own balance of power between the parties and the houses, they might not be able to act at all when the nation really needed it.



The Constitution grants Congress the authority to craft needful legislation such as the National Emergencies Act in order to maintain the smooth and timely operation of the government.

Specifically:

Article I Section 8: "To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof."

THAT'S the authority behind the National Emergencies Act.

That and this:

Article I Section 7: "Every Order, Resolution, or Vote to which the Concurrence of the Senate and House of Representatives may be necessary (except on a question of Adjournment) shall be presented to the President of the United States; and before the Same shall take Effect, shall be approved by him, or being disapproved by him, shall be repassed by two thirds of the Senate and House of Representatives, according to the Rules and Limitations prescribed in the Case of a Bill."

You see, Ghost, Congress passed the National Emergencies Act. The President signed it.



Congress DID have half a brain, which is WHY the crafted the Act and passed it to the President for his signature.

Or would you rather Congress remain gridlocked during times of National Emergency when there's no TIME for them to unglue themselves?

In peacetime, you can afford to have a bunch of cooks in the kitchen all arguing about doing this or that to solve some minor problem.

But when the problem is major -- and the $90.5 billion undocumented aliens' annual drain on the states alone is a major problem -- you need sound, decisive leadership, not gridlock.

I, for one, am very glad for the Act, glad the GOP mostly green-lighted his declaration in late January, and that President Trump is going ahead with it.

After all, failing to pay $10 billion or less for a wall when undocumented aliens cost the states more than $90 billion annually is just plain stupid.


I missed a question you asked.

Yes i would most definitely prefer a gridlocked Fed in a national emergency.
The quickest way to foul up any operation being done to respond to anything but a military attack is to involve the FEMA or other federal agencies.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
5,936
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
8 U.S. Code § 1182. Inadmissible aliens
(f) Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President
Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate...
 

since9

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,964
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
Eh no. I didn't forget congress passed the NEA. They passed the NFA, and GCA too. Glad they passed them?

Its a miracle the country survived between 1776 and 1976 when this wonderful bunch of tripe was passed by congress giving the president a power no presidents had BEFORE 1976.

Crazy, eh? Since the government was so unbelievably perfect, why have any provision for Congress in the Constitution at all! I mean, hey, just write in stone what some administrators should do and be done with it...

If the founders wanted one man in gov to have that much power they would have granted the President that then.

WRONG.

The Founders knew full well that times, situations, and circumstances might one day exist so they gave both Congress and the President the authority to pass such legislation, along with the Supreme Court the authority to declare it un-Constitutional.

That's the way our government works, Ghost1958

They didn't. They had just fought a war to be free of gov where to much power was wielded by one man.

You really should read some history, there, Ghost1958. They gave George Washington considerably more power during his first two terms.

The NEA was a massive mistake. Just because Congress passes something in no way makes it a smart or constitutional.

In your not so humble opinion. But hey! If you have grievances, just redress your government via Representatives and Senators. If that doesn't work, then file a lawsuit and convince the U.S. Supreme Court the NEA is unconstitutional.
 

since9

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,964
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
I missed a question you asked.

Yes i would most definitely prefer a gridlocked Fed in a national emergency.

Well then, Sir, with all due respect, and speaking as a highly experience combat veteran officer holding a Presidential commission, I must clearly and emphatically state that's a great way to commit national suicide.

Consider "The Football." The checks and balances come with confirmation being required by civilians in the National Command Authorities. If the U.S. had not had the capability to launch a counterstrike within minutes, the United States of America, including Kentucky, would probably be seriously radioactive from a first strike.

The quickest way to foul up any operation being done to respond to anything but a military attack is to involve the FEMA or other federal agencies.

Depends on the agency.

Agreed, FEMA's reaction to Katrina was disastrous.

Commensurate with our jobs at the time, a good friend and I -- both of us experienced Air Mobility Liaison Officers -- mapped out an emergency response involving Navy Construction Battalions, Army Corps of Engineers, Air Force C-130s out of Little Rock AFB, AR, C-17s out of Charleston AFB, SC, Navy and Army resupply ships out of ports throughout the Gulf of Mexico, and an entire host of other assets, all commanded by a Joint Task Force commander we hand-picked who had the knowledge, experience and temperament to "get 'er done."

The plan focused on CBs inspecting and improving shore landing facilities at the Duncan Canal, the docks at Port Ship Service St. Rose, and any other protected location with ready access to the airport. New Orleans Lakefront Airport already has serviceable docks. COE would clear the runways and build temporary basing at NOI and Lakefront. The moment the runways were clear of debris, C-130s from Little Rock would begin delivering supplies of food, water, medical, and communications supplies to both locations.

We would also begin delivering support personnel who are specifically tasked with and exceptionally good at coordinating and supporting large-scale airlift operations, ground transportation support, and airfield security.

Simultaneously, U.S. Army CH-47D Chinooks from Ft. Polk, LA would fly down with their own direct support components then begin flying water airlift supply to various redistribution spots identified and controlled by NOPD. Polk hosts JRTC which provides advanced level joint training for the Army (Active and Reserve Component), Air Force and Navy contingency forces in deployment and tactical operations under realistic conditions of low to mid intensity combat.

Priorities would have been based on the Rule of 3 Requirements:

  1. 3 Seconds - Pressure: N/A
  2. 3 Minutes - Air: Oxygen in support of all hospitals as well as persons around town requiring oxygen support.
  3. 3 Hours - Shelter: Primary concerns here involved evacuating people to higher ground and providing large reflective sun shade tent tops with mosquito netting sides, cots, and blankets. Remember, this happened in August. Warm and muggy during the day, slightly cooler at night. Medical supplies accompany shelter.
  4. 3 Days - Water: Ideally delivered within the first 24 hours of flyable weather with continuous resupply after that.
  5. 3 Weeks - Food: Also, Ideally delivered along with the water.
6.. 3 Months - Recovery: This begins with CBs and COE forces conducting preliminary assessments and repairs of things like levees, pumps, and water/waste treatment facilities, to be taken over quickly by civilian contractors.

My friend got involves because he was the senior Air Mobility Officer of the region at the time, ran the training school at Little Rock, and had full access to and had worked with the Army at Ft. Polk. He contacted me because I'm an exceptional planner and had lived in New Orleans, 3 years in middle and high school, and another 3 years of summers in the mid-1980s. I'd also taken a three-day personal flying trip their with another AMLO in May of 2005, so I was familiar with the local airports. Most importantly, however, I'd just revamped the entire theater airlift mission request, allocation, apportionment and tracking system for the entire Korean theater of operations. Put simply, I knew how to get stuff done, right, and in a hurry.

Bottom line: We knew this would work and work very well because we'd both flown, planned, and managed such operations during peacetime, contingency and combat situations. It would have been an absolutely tremendous boons to the City and People of New Orleans during their first 24 hours, 72 hours, and three weeks of recovery from Katrina. It would also have saved a lot of lives. Finally, the recovery efforts would have provided invaluable real-world training for all U.S. forces involved.

We briefed the local Air Force commander, who let us brief the local Joint Force Commander, who took it up the chain of command.

Result: Stand Down. FEMA will handle it.

That was THREE DAYS PRIOR to Katrina making landfall.

Well, we all know how THAT turned out... As Wikipedia notes: "Many other government officials were criticized for their responses, especially New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco, and President George W. Bush." In 2014, Nagin was convicted on twenty of twenty-one charges of wire fraud, bribery, and money laundering related to bribes from city contractors before and after Katrina and was sentenced to ten years in federal prison. He saw Katrina as an opportunity to get rich. See 'ya in 2024, JERK. As for the Guv'nuh... "Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (born December 15, 1942) is an American politician who served as the 54th Governor of Louisiana from January 2004 to January 2008. A member of the Democratic Party, she is the first woman to have been elected as governor of Louisiana."

Well, geez, Louise... And how did THAT work out for you? Seriously. You do NOT let any agency cut their eye teeth on large scale REAL WORLD operations. That was STUPID. You SHOULD have sent in the professionals. By then, I'd only been doing the same for fifteen years straight.

Oh, your quote!

Yes i would most definitely prefer a gridlocked Fed in a national emergency...

Are you even remotely aware of just how many people DIED during Katrina because of thinking like that?

Screw that! Strong President. Send in the professionals. We'll work alongside FEMA, but we have the lead until things stabilize around three weeks, at which point we vacate and they take over.
 

solus

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Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
Wait since9 didn’t two CC, gentleman officers w/presidental commisions [as all US armed forces Officer have] recently get releived of command for hazing their subordinates by duct taping their hands and feet and then watched as they struggled to get free?

Wait didn’t at least four high ranking officers, w/presidential commissions, and 70 enlisted get relieved over mishandling nukes in 07?

Let’s discuss the civil unrest at March AFB which lead to the AF doing ‘sensitivity training’ across all facets of the service, including those w/presidential commission!

Ya, the folks in blue, even those with presidential commissions, are human and error occasionally, so drop pontification of espousing your holier than thou attitude because all the arm force’s service members do their job with out bravado nor seeking recognition as they serve their government everyday throughout the world with out bragging about how exceptional they are.

As do citizens of this great nation!

Get over yourself as you aint a fly boy any more, you couldn’t make O-6 and your war stories are really boring, especially when you keep regaling yourself as USAF LTC American fly boy super hero w/presidential commission and

Your berating of any forum member’s life experiences is extremely disturbing and quite honestly disgusting. Tis something beneath & unbecoming an august retired military member, especially one who was presidentially commissioned to be an Officer and gentleman.

Think about your recent posting conduct Lt Colonel, this from one distinguished service member to another ~ you are irreparably tarnishing your own reputation with this intolerable demeaning behaviour on a very public forum.
 
Last edited:

OC for ME

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Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
...

Screw that! Strong President. Send in the professionals. We'll work alongside FEMA, but we have the lead until things stabilize around three weeks, at which point we vacate and they take over.
Me thinks you transpose gridlock with bureaucracy.

Russel L. Honoré, Lieutenant General (Ret)

 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
Me thinks he forgets whom, by constitutional decree, his civilian handler(s) were...coupled with their grandiose WMD and other paranoias.
 

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
1,265
Location
Kentucky
Well then, Sir, with all due respect, and speaking as a highly experience combat veteran officer holding a Presidential commission, I must clearly and emphatically state that's a great way to commit national suicide.

Consider "The Football." The checks and balances come with confirmation being required by civilians in the National Command Authorities. If the U.S. had not had the capability to launch a counterstrike within minutes, the United States of America, including Kentucky, would probably be seriously radioactive from a first strike.



Depends on the agency.

Agreed, FEMA's reaction to Katrina was disastrous.

Commensurate with our jobs at the time, a good friend and I -- both of us experienced Air Mobility Liaison Officers -- mapped out an emergency response involving Navy Construction Battalions, Army Corps of Engineers, Air Force C-130s out of Little Rock AFB, AR, C-17s out of Charleston AFB, SC, Navy and Army resupply ships out of ports throughout the Gulf of Mexico, and an entire host of other assets, all commanded by a Joint Task Force commander we hand-picked who had the knowledge, experience and temperament to "get 'er done."

The plan focused on CBs inspecting and improving shore landing facilities at the Duncan Canal, the docks at Port Ship Service St. Rose, and any other protected location with ready access to the airport. New Orleans Lakefront Airport already has serviceable docks. COE would clear the runways and build temporary basing at NOI and Lakefront. The moment the runways were clear of debris, C-130s from Little Rock would begin delivering supplies of food, water, medical, and communications supplies to both locations.

We would also begin delivering support personnel who are specifically tasked with and exceptionally good at coordinating and supporting large-scale airlift operations, ground transportation support, and airfield security.

Simultaneously, U.S. Army CH-47D Chinooks from Ft. Polk, LA would fly down with their own direct support components then begin flying water airlift supply to various redistribution spots identified and controlled by NOPD. Polk hosts JRTC which provides advanced level joint training for the Army (Active and Reserve Component), Air Force and Navy contingency forces in deployment and tactical operations under realistic conditions of low to mid intensity combat.

Priorities would have been based on the Rule of 3 Requirements:

  1. 3 Seconds - Pressure: N/A
  2. 3 Minutes - Air: Oxygen in support of all hospitals as well as persons around town requiring oxygen support.
  3. 3 Hours - Shelter: Primary concerns here involved evacuating people to higher ground and providing large reflective sun shade tent tops with mosquito netting sides, cots, and blankets. Remember, this happened in August. Warm and muggy during the day, slightly cooler at night. Medical supplies accompany shelter.
  4. 3 Days - Water: Ideally delivered within the first 24 hours of flyable weather with continuous resupply after that.
  5. 3 Weeks - Food: Also, Ideally delivered along with the water.
6.. 3 Months - Recovery: This begins with CBs and COE forces conducting preliminary assessments and repairs of things like levees, pumps, and water/waste treatment facilities, to be taken over quickly by civilian contractors.

My friend got involves because he was the senior Air Mobility Officer of the region at the time, ran the training school at Little Rock, and had full access to and had worked with the Army at Ft. Polk. He contacted me because I'm an exceptional planner and had lived in New Orleans, 3 years in middle and high school, and another 3 years of summers in the mid-1980s. I'd also taken a three-day personal flying trip their with another AMLO in May of 2005, so I was familiar with the local airports. Most importantly, however, I'd just revamped the entire theater airlift mission request, allocation, apportionment and tracking system for the entire Korean theater of operations. Put simply, I knew how to get stuff done, right, and in a hurry.

Bottom line: We knew this would work and work very well because we'd both flown, planned, and managed such operations during peacetime, contingency and combat situations. It would have been an absolutely tremendous boons to the City and People of New Orleans during their first 24 hours, 72 hours, and three weeks of recovery from Katrina. It would also have saved a lot of lives. Finally, the recovery efforts would have provided invaluable real-world training for all U.S. forces involved.

We briefed the local Air Force commander, who let us brief the local Joint Force Commander, who took it up the chain of command.

Result: Stand Down. FEMA will handle it.

That was THREE DAYS PRIOR to Katrina making landfall.

Well, we all know how THAT turned out... As Wikipedia notes: "Many other government officials were criticized for their responses, especially New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco, and President George W. Bush." In 2014, Nagin was convicted on twenty of twenty-one charges of wire fraud, bribery, and money laundering related to bribes from city contractors before and after Katrina and was sentenced to ten years in federal prison. He saw Katrina as an opportunity to get rich. See 'ya in 2024, JERK. As for the Guv'nuh... "Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (born December 15, 1942) is an American politician who served as the 54th Governor of Louisiana from January 2004 to January 2008. A member of the Democratic Party, she is the first woman to have been elected as governor of Louisiana."

Well, geez, Louise... And how did THAT work out for you? Seriously. You do NOT let any agency cut their eye teeth on large scale REAL WORLD operations. That was STUPID. You SHOULD have sent in the professionals. By then, I'd only been doing the same for fifteen years straight.

Oh, your quote!



Are you even remotely aware of just how many people DIED during Katrina because of thinking like that?

Screw that! Strong President. Send in the professionals. We'll work alongside FEMA, but we have the lead until things stabilize around three weeks, at which point we vacate and they take over.

Definition of a professional. Someone paid to do a job. Not nessacarilly a good job.

Having been involved with 3 major natural disasters in ky and relief efforts I can without reservation say everyone concerned would have been better off if FEMA never showed up.

Well flowing volunteer supply lines trucking in food ,water, and other supplies were ground to standstill within 2 he's of the feds sticking their head in.

They were so bad in fact in one city that when they tried to set up shop in a nearby town the citizens forced them too leave.

As far as Katrina goes it speaks for itself in failed federal and LE performance.

Though now I better understand your superior attitude.
 
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