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No Weapons Pikeville Festival

willy1094

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Messages
193
Location
Nothern KY
It is that time of year again so we are going to be making the trip down to Pike County to attend the Hillbilly Days Festival. The last time we were there I saw "No Weapons" (it may have said no guns, I can't find my picture). This is held in public streets and Shriner's. Please refresh me in anything I'd need to know going in if I have an opportunity to have a discussion with anyone that "matters" about the signs. For example, I believe I've read that they cannot claim lease agreement because it is being held in the open city streets. Is that correct?

thanks
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
7,541
Location
here nc
It is that time of year again so we are going to be making the trip down to Pike County to attend the Hillbilly Days Festival. The last time we were there I saw "No Weapons" (it may have said no guns, I can't find my picture). This is held in public streets and Shriner's. Please refresh me in anything I'd need to know going in if I have an opportunity to have a discussion with anyone that "matters" about the signs. For example, I believe I've read that they cannot claim lease agreement because it is being held in the open city streets. Is that correct?

thanks
Guess you need to wait for Gutshot to have a discussion per se, but while you wait this 'anyone' might offer you the following to read while awaiting Gutshot:

1. neuroblade's 18 April 15 post:

Well, I think that by now we are pretty much all aware of the issues that Pike County has presented us with in reference to OC. With Hillbilly Days now in full swing, I had the chance to attend last night and I figured what better time to give OC a run for the money in the heart of jolly old Pike County!

While I found this "festival", if you could even call it that, to be annoying and worrisome due to a completely horrible lack of parking and lack of anything interesting, other than some very attractive females, I did find it interesting that they had LOADS of LEO's wandering around the streets among the people. The security was great and thusly, I anticipated issues from them in reference with my OC last night.

OK, so here's the report! I encountered (not physically though) a LOT of LEO's from various department and I got a LOT of weird looks and negative looks from some of them but all in all, there was not a word spoken and it went OK. I think that after all the interaction that Pike County has had with KC3 and Gutshot, I think that like it or not, they have learned the lesson that they MUST adhere to KRS 65.870.

no further posts in the thread ~ https://forum.opencarry.org/index.php?threads/hillbilly-days-pikeville.129636/

2. Gutshot's 25 May 18 post:

This is the second time that our organization has sued Pikeville. The last time the officials at Pikeville refused to comply with the law after numerous phone calls and emails from the Board of KC3. Immediately after the suit was filed, they folded their hand, asked to settle and amended their ordinances and policies to comply with the law. They also paid all of our expenses. They could have avoided all of that had they just complied with the law a month earlier. It appears that taxpayer's money is spent very unwisely and loosely in Pikeville.

This time the problem centers around the East Ky. Expo Arena. The Expo is a 7,000 seat arena operated by the City of Pikeville. All weapons are prohibited in the Expo. The city has an ordinance that prohibits CONCEALED weapons in all buildings owned or operated by the City of Pikeville and that ordinance would apply to the Expo, but they are attempting to regulate open carry as well which they have no authority to do. There is also a policy for the rental of a Park Shelter that says that no one can carry a firearm in the park except a sworn police officer. The last issue is with Amos RV Park and an adjacent Fightfighting Training center where they say that firearms cannot be in any vehicle or carried by any person. None of this is legal and the city has refused to comply with the state law. I have had numerous phone conversations with the City Attorney, Russel Davis and aside from him calling me various nasty names and yelling insults I have accomplished very little. These are not pleasant people to deal with.

no further posts in the thread ~ https://forum.opencarry.org/index.php?threads/kc3-has-filed-a-lawsuit-against-the-city-of-pikeville.136709/
 

gutshot II

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2017
Messages
555
Location
Central Ky.
It is that time of year again so we are going to be making the trip down to Pike County to attend the Hillbilly Days Festival. The last time we were there I saw "No Weapons" (it may have said no guns, I can't find my picture). This is held in public streets and Shriner's. Please refresh me in anything I'd need to know going in if I have an opportunity to have a discussion with anyone that "matters" about the signs. For example, I believe I've read that they cannot claim lease agreement because it is being held in the open city streets. Is that correct?

thanks
To answer your question, MAYBE.
What would prevent the lease of open spaces to a proper leasee? Has it ever been done before? Do they claim to have had a lease in previous years? Have they had a lease for any previous years? Can they produce a lease from a previous year? What do the statutes say?


Is the city a party to a lease for the city streets for this year's Hillbilly Days?
Who is the lessee?
How much is the lessee paying for the use of the street?
Is it an "exclusive use" lease?
Is there a fee charged for entry into the area that has been leased?

When will this event take place and how long will it last?
WHO has prohibited guns in the streets, the city or some other organization?
What did the city do for St. Paddy's Day? Were there any "gun free zones" during that event?
What about the other Pikeville Main St. Events that take place on public property?

It is possible to sometimes pick up the phone or send an email to a city official and get a policy/rule/regulation like this changed in a few hours if the city official is willing to give up that easily. The City of Pikeville has been sued twice by KC3. The first one was settled in our favor, after a year of work. The other one is still in Pike County Circuit Court. The Circuit Judge in that case is a former City of Pikeville Mayor. This case has been in the court for 14 months and could very well end up starting over in the Ky. Court of Appeals. They have fought us for YEARS and there is no resolution yet.
By state law the City of Pikeville cannot ban guns in open spaces, but a "private business enterprise" that has an exclusive use lease probably can. Is the Shriners a "private business enterprise" that has an exclusive use lease"? I don't know. Can you find out for me in time for the event? Can I find out in time for the event? I don't know. What has the City done in the past with events like this? I don't know. Can you find out for me in time for the event? Can I find out in time for the event? I don't know.

If the Shriners are not charging a fee, then they are probably NOT a "private business enterprise" and cannot ban guns on city streets. So, if the Shriners cannot ban guns, who is responsible for the gun ban? I don't know.
What about the individual vendors that are selling products inside the event? Are they "private business enterprise(s)" ? Do they have a lease? I don't know. Can you find out for me in time for the event? Can I find out in time for the event? I don't know.

Can the Shriners ban guns on a city street? Probably not. Can I prove it?
I don't know.
Without a lot more information, I would not want to get involved in this. I am now 74 years old. It could easily take another 74 years to get all of this information and reach a solution to this.
 

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
660
Location
Kentucky
Sounds like a job the AG is paid to do.

Course we have a lousy AG.

IVE oced and cced in pikeville many times. Never had a LEO say anything, or anyone else.

Worst they can do is, tell you leave the GFZ. never had that happen either.
 

color of law

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
4,512
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Sounds like a job the AG is paid to do.

Course we have a lousy AG.

IVE oced and cced in pikeville many times. Never had a LEO say anything, or anyone else.

Worst they can do is, tell you leave the GFZ. never had that happen either.
And again, it's because of your dashing good looks.
 

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
660
Location
Kentucky
Also I'm pretty sure, you cannot lease a public street. City's can give permits or permission to close one temporarily for parades etc but no lease is possible that I'm aware of. At least that is the response we got several times when the 501c3 I was CEO of tried to do so.
 

gutshot II

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2017
Messages
555
Location
Central Ky.
It is that time of year again so we are going to be making the trip down to Pike County to attend the Hillbilly Days Festival. The last time we were there I saw "No Weapons" (it may have said no guns, I can't find my picture). This is held in public streets and Shriner's. Please refresh me in anything I'd need to know going in if I have an opportunity to have a discussion with anyone that "matters" about the signs. For example, I believe I've read that they cannot claim lease agreement because it is being held in the open city streets. Is that correct?

thanks
Willy, they can CLAIM anything and probably will ( I can speak from experience with them). Can you, or anyone else, PROVE that they can't. Without a lot more information than you have given here, I can't tell who can do what. With this bunch of crooks, you have to have all the information you can get and be ready to present FACTS and written law, not what you have read somewhere. These people will only do what you can FORCE them to do and will blatantly lie about everything. Conversations with them or anyone representing them is useless. You have to get everything in writing and then be willing to go to court with that.
 

Ghost1958

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
660
Location
Kentucky
Willy, they can CLAIM anything and probably will ( I can speak from experience with them). Can you, or anyone else, PROVE that they can't. Without a lot more information than you have given here, I can't tell who can do what. With this bunch of crooks, you have to have all the information you can get and be ready to present FACTS and written law, not what you have read somewhere. These people will only do what you can FORCE them to do and will blatantly lie about everything. Conversations with them or anyone representing them is useless. You have to get everything in writing and then be willing to go to court with that.
Fact remains if he wants to go armed cc if he's made and asked to leave, and does, he's broken no law and nothing more can be done to him.
 

willy1094

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Messages
193
Location
Nothern KY
Thanks for the replies. I wasn't worried about getting in trouble but thought I'd take a stab at trying to correct a bad sign. It seemed pretty clear from the posts that I wouldn't get anywhere while I was on my mini-vacation and most offices are closed on the weekend anyway. The same sign I saw last year was up this year with "No dogs or firearms..." I had a good day with the family anyway. At this point, I feel like we go to this out of habit as opposed to actual enjoyment. I may try to make calls and find out all of the details in the weeks leading up to this event next year. I don't know that anything is leased but figured that would be their argument. I just wasn't sure enough to argue the legality of multiple blocks of a City being leased by a private party.
 
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