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No Second Amendment in Australia.

A

Agolding

Guest
The NRA gets 1% of its funding from gun manufacturers and about 2% from gun dealers. The other 97% comes directly from THE PEOPLE. The NRA more directly represents the interests of individual citizens of the US than any other privately funded organization in the USA. Also, they really are not pushing a gun industry agenda, they are pushing a gun owners agenda.

Also, the NRA spends less than 5% of its budget on lobbying. Most of its money not spent on administrative costs and advertising goes to positive activities like education, training, competitions, and various charitable activities and events.

That's untrue, less than half the revenue comes from the people in the form of fees And membership. The bulk of their income is from advertising, mostly from the gun industry.
 
A

Agolding

Guest
I guess the solution is to let your political process do its thing.

As for us killing each other, there are about 200 million guns here that have never been involved in illegal activity. Should we restrict everyone based on the actions of a very small number if people? What we do have is lots of people who need to either calm down or get dead. Chicago has about 70,000 active criminal gang members, each if whom most likely illegally carries a gun, yet there were only 506 gun killings there last year. That is a big number, but still a small percentage of the whole.

Yes, the political process works well in Australia. We don't need guns to do the talking over here, we trust our politicians to do the right thing. We have a very low gun related death rate and are extremely proud of that. Guns are available to those who really need them, but we make them very hard to get and assault weapons like the ridiculous AR15 are banned. It's a great place to live!
 

Grapeshot

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[h=1]AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN[/h]April 13, 2009
It is a common fantasy that gun bans make society safer. In 2002 -- five years after enacting its gun ban -- the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime. In fact, the percent of murders committed with a firearm was the highest it had ever been in 2006 (16.3 percent), says the D.C. Examiner.


Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:

  • In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
  • Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
  • Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:

  • Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.
  • During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
  • Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
  • Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
  • At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
  • Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.
While this doesn't prove that more guns would impact crime rates, it does prove that gun control is a flawed policy. Furthermore, this highlights the most important point: gun banners promote failed policy regardless of the consequences to the people who must live with them, says the Examiner.


Source: Howard Nemerov, "Australia experiencing more violent crime despite gun ban," Free Republic, April 9, 2009.
For text:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2225517/posts

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17847
 

Grapeshot

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[SIZE=+1]Australian Gun Ban Facts & Statistics[/SIZE]

It has now been over 10 years since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own Government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.

The statistics for the years following the ban are now in:

Accidental gun deaths are 300% higher than the pre-1997 ban rate

The assault rate has increased 800% since 1991, and increased 200% since the 1997 gun ban.

Robbery and armed robbery have increase 20% from the pre-97 ban rate.

From immediately after the ban was instituted in 1997 through 2002, the robbery and armed robbery rate was up 200% over the pre-ban rates.

In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 171 percent.

There is more here:
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2974487/posts
 
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eye95

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But, but, but, Grape, he "trust[s his] politicians!" (The most egregious sin of all.)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>
 

John Canuck

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If one likes Australia so much, why doesn't one stay there and mind one's own business? I moved here from a commonwealth country and will never move back. FTQ.
 
A

Agolding

Guest
[h=1]AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN[/h]

Cut and paste is an amazing skill, you seem to have learnt it very well. What you have sourced is typical NRA propaganda. Luckily in Australia we have common sense gun laws to protect us, we don't want the American Gun culture.
 

carolina guy

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Cut and paste is an amazing skill, you seem to have learnt it very well. What you have sourced is typical NRA propaganda. Luckily in Australia we have common sense gun laws to protect us, we don't want the American Gun culture.

Choosing what to cut and paste and knowing where to find it is the skill, mate.

Enjoy your "safer" society and do us a favor...we will keep our gun culture to ourselves if your keep your nanny state socialism to yourself. Deal?
 

Grapeshot

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Cut and paste is an amazing skill, you seem to have learnt it very well. What you have sourced is typical NRA propaganda. Luckily in Australia we have common sense gun laws to protect us, we don't want the American Gun culture.

Do you mean that I seek out data, facts and pertinent information rather than rely on an unsubstantiated feelings, fortified with negative innuendo?

I don't think that is what you really meant, but just in case you claim it, I thank you - you should try it.

Unsubstantiated opinions carry little weight here. Facts, figures, data, and cites reign supreme. You haven't scored a point, sir. I dare say you have not even rimmed a shot. Rather than play your game, I'll stick to mine and do what I do here. Don't think it will take too long.
 

MKEgal

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in front of my computer, WI
eye95 said:
Notice that the troll talks like it is from Australia, but its location says "Thailand."
I wondered about that myself.
Maybe he's there on a sex holiday?

As for banning personal defensive tools somehow making society safer, here's a study published in 2007 in the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy, titled "Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder & Suicide?".
They concluded that it would not.
As but one piece of proof, the suicide rate in places which have strict subject-control laws w/r/t firearms is essentially the same as the rate in places which have reasonable laws regarding citizen possession of firearms.
http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

few Russian civilians now have firearms and very few murders involve them. Yet, manifest success in keeping its people disarmed did not prevent the Soviet Union from having far and away the highest murder rate in the developed world.
In the 1960s and early 1970s, the gunless Soviet Union’s murder rates paralleled or generally exceeded those of gun-ridden America.
While American rates stabilized and then
steeply declined, however, Russian murder increased so drastically that by the early 1990s the Russian rate was three times higher than that of the United States.
Between 1998
2004... Russian murder rates were nearly four times higher than American rates.
In the late 1990s, England moved from stringent controls to a complete ban of all handguns and many types of long guns... the ban’s ineffectiveness was such that by the year 2000 violent crime had so increased that England and Wales had Europe’s highest violent crime rate, far surpassing even the United States.
 

eye95

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Messages
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I wondered about that myself.
Maybe he's there on a sex holiday? ...[/URL]

I suspect it is in yet a third place. Clearly its intention is to come here and make trouble while hiding behind a wall of lies. I notice it merely insults statistics it does not like, rather than use rationality to refute them (as though that would be possible). Yawn. It's a troll. What would we expect?
 
A

Agolding

Guest
Do you mean that I seek out data, facts and pertinent information rather than rely on an unsubstantiated feelings, fortified with negative innuendo?

I don't think that is what you really meant, but just in case you claim it, I thank you - you should try it.

Unsubstantiated opinions carry little weight here. Facts, figures, data, and cites reign supreme. You haven't scored a point, sir. I dare say you have not even rimmed a shot. Rather than play your game, I'll stick to mine and do what I do here. Don't think it will take too long.

No, my opinions are based on our experience here in Australia as well as unbiased reports in the media. I won't bother to cut and paste them here because I doubt you will read the other side of the argument.

The biggest difference between the US and Australia after the all too frequent US gun massacres happens in the aftermath. We shake our heads in disbelief at the stupidity of the US gun culture and thank ourselves for not having easy access to guns. In the US the people just go out and buy more guns like the AR15.
 

Aknazer

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No, my opinions are based on our experience here in Australia as well as unbiased reports in the media. I won't bother to cut and paste them here because I doubt you will read the other side of the argument.

The biggest difference between the US and Australia after the all too frequent US gun massacres happens in the aftermath. We shake our heads in disbelief at the stupidity of the US gun culture and thank ourselves for not having easy access to guns. In the US the people just go out and buy more guns like the AR15.

In other words you don't have any facts or statistics to back up your statements. You also haven't bothered to check out this forum as people regularly read the "other side." Or maybe you just don't want people to tear apart the arguments that you know are really biased and based on emotions instead of facts. Like how almost all of our massacres have happened in "gun-free" zones.

But since you're just a troll I don't expect you to actually back up any of your claims with actual facts.
 
A

Agolding

Guest
In other words you don't have any facts or statistics to back up your statements. You also haven't bothered to check out this forum as people regularly read the "other side." Or maybe you just don't want people to tear apart the arguments that you know are really biased and based on emotions instead of facts. Like how almost all of our massacres have happened in "gun-free" zones.

But since you're just a troll I don't expect you to actually back up any of your claims with actual facts.

Ouch, so no we have moved on from cut and paste to name calling, that really hurts. This thread is actually about the lack of a second amendment in Australia, so perhaps to get back on topic we should talk about that. It will never ever happen in Australia, we just aren't that STUPID!
 

carolina guy

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No, my opinions are based on our experience here in Australia as well as unbiased reports in the media. I won't bother to cut and paste them here because I doubt you will read the other side of the argument.

The biggest difference between the US and Australia after the all too frequent US gun massacres happens in the aftermath. We shake our heads in disbelief at the stupidity of the US gun culture and thank ourselves for not having easy access to guns. In the US the people just go out and buy more guns like the AR15.

1st sign of dementia or a troll...stating that the media ANYWHERE is "unbiased"....now that's funny!!

The people in the US shake our heads sadly when we hear about the increasing number of reports of home invasions, rape, assault or murder coming out of Australia and the UK. But, at least it is "better" that those being hurt or killed weren't by guns. It is SO much better to get sliced open or your head bashed in by a bat or brick.

Keep your "moral superiority" to yourself. If you think it is somehow better that a young woman is assaulted than being able to defend herself, you are too far gone for rationality. But, at least you can tuck yourself in at night knowing that the "scary" looking AR-15 is not being sold in Oz...(*SHRUG*)
 
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A

Agolding

Guest
1st sign of dementia or a troll...stating that the media ANYWHERE is "unbiased"....now that's funny!!

The people in the US shake our heads sadly when we hear about the increasing number of reports of home invasions, rape, assault or murder coming out of Australia and the UK. But, at least it is "better" that those being hurt or killed weren't by guns. It is SO much better to get sliced open or your head bashed in by a bat or brick.

Keep your "moral superiority" to yourself. If you think it is somehow better that a young woman is assaulted than being able to defend herself, you are too far gone for rationality. But, at least you can tuck yourself in at night knowing that the "scary" looking AR-15 is not being sold in Oz...(*SHRUG*)

I'm not sure why you are so excited or surprised that the majority of Australians support Gun Control. Even Rupert Murdoch, owner of that terrible Fox News network is for Gun Control and he is Australian. This particular thread is about Australia and the second ammendment and if you want to hear about the Australian view about then I am more than happy to discuss it.
 

Gil223

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I'm not sure why you are so excited or surprised that the majority of Australians support Gun Control. Even Rupert Murdoch, owner of that terrible Fox News network is for Gun Control and he is Australian. This particular thread is about Australia and the second ammendment and if you want to hear about the Australian view about then I am more than happy to discuss it.

You do not have the authority to speak for the "majority of Australians", since you are but one fool. Australia was founded in 1788 as a penal colony, by the Brits. The convicts and their keepers were subjects of crazy King George III. Although Oz gained it's independence in 1901, many Aussies have maintained that "subject mentality" and passed it along from father to son, as a family tradition. It seems to be one of "If the Brits do it, it must be brilliant! We'll just follow along." There is no shortage of left-wingers in Oz, and their government seems to tilt significantly in that direction. Now bai bon, and kiss your Kathoey BF goodnight. :rolleyes:
 
A

Agolding

Guest
You do not have the authority to speak for the "majority of Australians", since you are but one fool. Australia was founded in 1788 as a penal colony, by the Brits. The convicts and their keepers were subjects of crazy King George III. Although Oz gained it's independence in 1901, many Aussies have maintained that "subject mentality" and passed it along from father to son, as a family tradition. It seems to be one of "If the Brits do it, it must be brilliant! We'll just follow along." There is no shortage of left-wingers in Oz, and their government seems to tilt significantly in that direction. Now bai bon, and kiss your Kathoey BF goodnight. :rolleyes:

My views on gun control are consistent with the majority of Australians. This issue still has overwealming support in Australia and it is considered political suicide for a politician here to talk about providing easy access to guns. An Australian politician in support of legislation like the US second ammendment would be laughed at.

We have a well regulated malitia here, it's called the army. I can't think of any other malitia groups that need regulation, outlawed yes, but regulated no. Groups like the Hells Angels, Mafia, etc don't need easy access to guns just because the second ammendment says they can. The second ammendment is a sad joke to me and I'm sure a lot of Australians feel the same way.
 

eye95

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It says that they (Australia or Thailand? It can't make its mind up which lie it wants to go with) have a "well regulated malitia."

What is the difference between a malitia and a militia? Based on the context it provides, the malitia must mean a standing army, an arm of the government, a force for those in charge. While informed folks know that the militia is composed of the People and is a force for those who should be in charge!

Freudian misspelling?

Oh, BTW, it has no idea of what "well regulated" means when used by the Framers. I betcha it thinks it means "has lotsa rules."
 

carolina guy

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my views on gun control are consistent with the majority of australians. This issue still has overwealming support in australia and it is considered political suicide for a politician here to talk about providing easy access to guns. An australian politician in support of legislation like the us second ammendment would be laughed at.

We have a well regulated malitia here, it's called the army. I can't think of any other malitia groups that need regulation, outlawed yes, but regulated no. Groups like the hells angels, mafia, etc don't need easy access to guns just because the second ammendment says they can. The second ammendment is a sad joke to me and i'm sure a lot of australians feel the same way.

(*shrug*)
 
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