• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

"No Gun Left Behind"

nova

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2007
Messages
3,149
Location
US
imported post

http://www.bradycampaign.org/xshare/pdf/reports/no-gun-left-behind.pdf



I would love to see those who want to bring their guns to college to be able to do so. This is a wonderful picture, and I wish it was my dorm at GMU.


However, notice the beer bottles in the trash can, which gives the message that someone will get drunk and shoot someone, and then the pictures on the wall behind the computer, of a kid dressed in a black leather coat down past the knees (like Neo from The Matrix movies) shooting in a field like some sycho. Giving the impression that the person is a computer geek who thinks real life is a videogame or movie.

I thought I'd share this link since this pertains to CCW on campus, though CCW on campus has nothing to do with keeping firearms in the dorms like the gun control nuts have in their minds...
 

soloban

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2007
Messages
255
Location
Huntsville, Alabama, USA
imported post

I loved this quote:

".50 Caliber sniper rifles powerful enough to bring down an airplane." *Rolls eyes* Maybe if there were six of them mounted on the wings of P-51 Mustang from 500' behind. I'd love to see where they got thier information on that one, furthermore, I'd like to see a shooter capable of that kind of marksmanship.

I love the way they paint all college students as binge-drinking, mentally unstable, ready-to-crack at a moments notice. Love this one too: "It is also unlikely that college gun owners will be able to keep secret the fact that they have a gun or guns, and many may openly flaunt this fact". They want to paint the scenario of Johnny Frat boy sitting on the couch after his 5th Cold One tossing his loaded 1911 to his buddies saying "check out my piece bro." Only to have his frat buddy who is on his 6th cold one point it at Johnny and squeeze off a round.

Notice how they mention UT allowing CCW on campus but glosses over the fact that there has been no problems from CCW holding students. Then at the end they throw up a few bad examples of CCW holders behaving badly. Notice how they don't show a percentage of good vs. bad?

I'm gonna have to agree with them on this one: "Dorm rooms are small, limiting the number of places where guns could be hidden or locked up. They often experience considerable numbers of visitors, some of whom might decide to pinch a firearm if they see one, given their resale value on the illegal market"

Its hard to secure your stuff in a dorm room. You are reliant on your roommate to keep the room locked and you basically have to chain everything down. There are people who do nothing but troll college campuses all day looking for cars to break into, laptops to swipe, bikes to steal, etc.... The answer of course is to keep it with you at all times. Campus theives are well equipped with bolt cutters, prybars, they know how to break in and steal very very quickly.

It gets worse over breaks. I had my car window pulled out with a hammer to steal a $120 CD player and for some reason the ashtray in mid daylight. My brother had a Jeep and he left it unlocked and empty so they wouldn't cut his softtop. Myself and both my brothers have had our vehicles broken into and steroes stolen and one bike swiped. If you want something nice on campus you better bolt it down and hide it.

Was it just me or did they leave out the school shooting where the vice principal ran to his car and retrieve his .357 and took out the shooter?

How in the hell can they say this about school shooters "First, many of the shooters were legally entitled to purchase or possess firearms at the time they carried out their shooting attack," Correct me if I'm wrong but juvenilles can't legally purchase or possess firearms. How many of these shootings could have been prevented if the original gun owner had properly secured his or her firearms?

If you really want to secure a school then you better have metal detectors, xray machines and armed guards at every entrance at all times. Either that or let the students and teachers carry. To be completely honest, if I were still in college, I would seriously consider stashing my weapon in my backpack irregardless of legality. I have to wonder how many college students out there today are doing the same thing.....
 

nickerj1

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2007
Messages
251
Location
, , USA
imported post

nova wrote:
http://www.bradycampaign.org/xshare/pdf/reports/no-gun-left-behind.pdf



I would love to see those who want to bring their guns to college to be able to do so. This is a wonderful picture, and I wish it was my dorm at GMU.


However, notice the beer bottles in the trash can, which gives the message that someone will get drunk and shoot someone, and then the pictures on the wall behind the computer, of a kid dressed in a black leather coat down past the knees (like Neo from The Matrix movies) shooting in a field like some sycho. Giving the impression that the person is a computer geek who thinks real life is a videogame or movie.

I thought I'd share this link since this pertains to CCW on campus, though CCW on campus has nothing to do with keeping firearms in the dorms like the gun control nuts have in their minds...

The entire premise of the Brady campaign is asanine. Brady was shot during the assassination attempt on Reagan. Ever since he's treated the "assassin" class the same as the "average criminal" class, which just doesn't work.
 

nofoa

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2007
Messages
374
Location
Arlington, Washington, USA
imported post

We all know the brady campaign are a bunch of lying amoral sexually repressed weasels, but every now and then they actually do say something truthful!

The day of the
“Massacre at Virginia
Tech” ... the first reaction
of the gun lobby was
that we need more guns
on the college
campuses of our
Nation.


Your DAMN skippy.

The gun lobby’s real
aim is to prohibit
colleges and
universities from
keeping ANY policies
or rules that restrict
gun access or use by
students.


Your DAMN skippy

If the rights of
educational institutions
can be trampled in the
gun lobby’s mad push
to arm students and
teachers, what places in
our society will remain
off-limits to guns?


You can keep Postal Offices, everybody uses email anyway.
 

nova

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2007
Messages
3,149
Location
US
imported post

nofoa wrote:
We all know the brady campaign are a bunch of lying amoral sexually repressed weasels, but every now and then they actually do say something truthful!

The day of the
“Massacre at Virginia
Tech” ... the first reaction
of the gun lobby was
that we need more guns
on the college
campuses of our
Nation.


Your DAMN skippy.

The gun lobby’s real
aim is to prohibit
colleges and
universities from
keeping ANY policies
or rules that restrict
gun access or use by
students.


Your DAMN skippy

If the rights of
educational institutions
can be trampled in the
gun lobby’s mad push
to arm students and
teachers, what places in
our society will remain
off-limits to guns?


You can keep Postal Offices, everybody uses email anyway.
The NRA doesn't want to arm students, it wants students who want to be armed to be able to do so. If college gun bans are repealed I can guarantee you you won't see all that many more guns on campus. First, because those who are carrying them would be carrying them concealed, and the majority of people on college campuses are leftist types anyhow who don't even own guns.
 

nofoa

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2007
Messages
374
Location
Arlington, Washington, USA
imported post

True, most college kids are still 18 and 19 years old. Im guessing that alot of states require individuals to be 21 in order to get a permit. In alot of states cpl individuals make up a tiny portion of the population.

So even if these gun free zones were gotten rid of you'd still only have a handful of people armed on campus.

As a current college student i am concerned about this. I want a higher education, but not at the expense of life or limb.
 

N00blet45

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2007
Messages
475
Location
Walton County, Georgia, ,
imported post

I find the last part the best. They start listing all these school shooting incidents. There seem to be quite a lot.Aren't these schools already 'gun-free zones'? So what makes them think that keeping the guns out of schools would lower the rate of violence at the schools?
 

Jim675

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Messages
1,023
Location
Bellevue, Washington, USA
imported post

The Bill of Rights aren't given just to groups the gov. thinks will not abuse them. They are given to you until a specific court judgement restricts them for a lawful reason (hopefully). Further, those rights are not given based on a presumption that they will never be abused. That is why we have police and the judicial system. Setting up governmental groups to prejudge who gets which of the inalienable rights of man does not sound like a good idea to me.
 

sccrref

Regular Member
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
741
Location
Virginia Beach, VA, , USA
imported post

I cannot believe that they did not show a big stash of drugs in the picture. As the antis have said, "Everyone at college is drunk and on drugs.":banghead:
 

uncoolperson

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
608
Location
Bellingham, ,
imported post

Of course, the gun lobby fails to mention that thousands of people with CCW licenses have committed atrocious acts of gun violence.6

6 See Guns & Business Don’t Mix, at Appendix C (listing dozens of criminal offenses committed by CCW licensees in Florida alone, http://www.bradycenter.org/xshare/pdf/reports/gunsnbusiness.pdf); see also William Rempel & Richard Serrano, Texas Concealed Handgun Law: Felons Get Concealed Gun Licenses Under Bush’s ‘Tough’ Law, Los Angeles 34 Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence Times, Oct. 3, 2000, at 1 (finding that more than 400 criminals - including rapists and armed robbers - had been issued CCW permits in Texas, with 3,000 more arrested for criminal behavior or found to be mentally unstable

Isn't using your own report that doesn't properly give a bad/good ratio as reference not normally the correct way to do things.... (it's really basically and open ended ref, 'i ref this and that refs.... not much')


Second, if, as is true, students are often the ones shooting others on school grounds, do we really want America’s teachers to be armed and trained to shoot to kill their students? What if the student only flashes the gun menacingly? Even law enforcement officers who train for years to deal with these situations sometimes make mistakes
so we can't trust teachers...because cops make mistakes? But dangit i want the cops to have more power!
 

cloudcroft

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
1,908
Location
El Paso, TX (formerly Colorado Springs, CO)
imported post

"".50 Caliber sniper rifles powerful enough to bring down an airplane." *Rolls eyes* Maybe if there were six of them mounted on the wings of P-51 Mustang from 500' behind. I'd love to see where they got thier information on that one, furthermore, I'd like to see a shooter capable of that kind of marksmanship."
-- soloban

Hate to have to be the one to clue you in, but it's been done, and with guns a lot less in caliber than .50BMG. And one plane was even shot down by a guy with a 1911/45ACP...you might want to research this more before thinking it's just hype.

I'm not defending those ignorant fools at HCI, just saying it's happened, so you might want to debate them using other tactics, not the "it can't be done" as you seem to believe.

-- John D.
 

jimwyant

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Messages
342
Location
Mebane, North Carolina, USA
imported post

cloudcroft wrote:
Hate to have to be the one to clue you in, but it's been done, and with guns a lot less in caliber than .50BMG. And one plane was even shot down by a guy with a 1911/45ACP...you might want to research this more before thinking it's just hype.

I'm not defending those ignorant fools at HCI, just saying it's happened, so you might want to debate them using other tactics, not the "it can't be done" as you seem to believe.

-- John D.
I'm not calling you a liar or trying to stir up a fight here, but do you have any sort of verification of these events?
 

uncoolperson

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
608
Location
Bellingham, ,
imported post

jimwyant wrote:
cloudcroft wrote:
Hate to have to be the one to clue you in, but it's been done, and with guns a lot less in caliber than .50BMG. And one plane was even shot down by a guy with a 1911/45ACP...you might want to research this more before thinking it's just hype.

I'm not defending those ignorant fools at HCI, just saying it's happened, so you might want to debate them using other tactics, not the "it can't be done" as you seem to believe.

-- John D.
I'm not calling you a liar or trying to stir up a fight here, but do you have any sort of verification of these events?
http://www.sightm1911.com/1911%20Myth.htm#2d%20Lt.%20Owen%20J.%20Baggett

every 1911 owner should read these stories...

my grandpa saw someone get shot down in vietnam with an ak-47 (7.62).... doesn't take much if the shooter is 'lucky'
 

cloudcroft

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
1,908
Location
El Paso, TX (formerly Colorado Springs, CO)
imported post

jimwyant,

Thanks, but I've stated the facts, now those who want more info need to do the research for themselves if they want the whole story...I don't have the time nor inclination to do other people's work for them. Never did. And I'm retired now on top of it.

Besides, I already know this stuff.

-- John D.
 

jimwyant

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Messages
342
Location
Mebane, North Carolina, USA
imported post

uncool - Thanks for the link.

cloud - At least once upon a time, it was customary here on OCDO to provide a link to verify "facts" that seem a bit unbelievable.
 

Doug Huffman

Banned
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
9,180
Location
Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin,
imported post

There are two kinds of knowledge, empirical and received.

Empirical knowledge is acquired through experience - experiments and adventures - and is of value only to the sage old fart. The kids say, "cite?!"

Received knowledge is from textbooks, classes and the Internet. The kids won't even stray out of their virtual familiar surroundings to verify stories of experiments and adventures, let alone live some life experiences and adventures.

When they're old then its time to let words stand alone. Believe nothing you read or hear without verifying it yourself unless it fits your worldview.

Either we are equal or we are not, young =/= old. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA KMA$$
 

cloudcroft

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2007
Messages
1,908
Location
El Paso, TX (formerly Colorado Springs, CO)
imported post

jimwyant,

What do you not get about doing your own verification?

Do you also depend on others for your own protection? [a rhetorical question]

Facts be facts...look 'em up to prove me wrong if you think they're not facts.

I wouldn't post them if they were not facts...I have a personal reputation to uphold to be right all the time...tough work. ;-)

-- John D.
 

kurtmax_0

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
794
Location
Auburn, Alabama, USA
imported post

.50 Caliber sniper rifles powerful enough to bring down an airplane.


quad50.jpg


Yep. University students are apt to bring one of these things to campus for a stroll!
 

TheApostle

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2007
Messages
89
Location
, ,
imported post

cloudcroft wrote:
jimwyant,

What do you not get about doing your own verification?

Do you also depend on others for your own protection? [a rhetorical question]

Facts be facts...look 'em up to prove me wrong if you think they're not facts.

I wouldn't post them if they were not facts...I have a personal reputation to uphold to be right all the time...tough work. ;-)

-- John D.

Found no evidence of a plane being shot down by rifle fire from the ground. Searched various engines for such topics. It has been discussed in theory, but never done. The story on www.sightm1911.com dealt with a handgun while the plane and shooter were in the air.

http://www.50caliberterror.com/index2.html

Of course...you might be thinking about who shot down the Red Baron...http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/world-war-i/who-do-you-think-shot-down-red-baron-3887.html :celebrate

Please give evidence.
 
Top