No Compromise Has Always Been True and Always Will Be

[DanM]

We told you nothing good comes from attempting to compromise. Dealing with Gov Snyder is like dealing with the devil, and the SB 59 debacle continues to prove it.

It is time for open carriers, MOC, all other gun owner organizations in Michigan, and all other gun owners to now realize a lesson you should have known all along!

NOTHING GOOD COMES FROM COMPROMISE OR "PLAYING NICE" IN SECURING GUN RIGHTS.

THE ATTITUDE MUST BE ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!

We do not compromise OC'ers, we do not compromise CC'ers, we do not compromise home defenders, we do not compromise hunters, we do not compromise sport shooters, we do not compromise ANY GUN OWNERSHIP, ANY GUN POSSESSION, OR ANY GUN CARRY!

 

[griffin]

I am going to withhold comment until after I attend the Wednesday morning legislative session, but from what I am seeing now in this case you may be right.

 

[DanM]

I am going to withhold comment until after I attend the Wednesday morning legislative session, but from what I am seeing now in this case you may be right.

Compromise does nothing but chip away at OUR rights!

Anti-gunners see compromise as weakness, and they will take what you are compromising and demand more!

That is a lesson that is plain to see by anyone who has been around gun-rights advocacy for the past couple of decades. Sadly, it is evident some people and some gun organizations are ignorant of history, but instead allow Governor Snyder to demonstrate it to them YET AGAIN.

No, it is not that gun owners are their own worst enemy. It is ignorance or amnesia about history that is some gun owners and gun-rights organization's problem.

 

[DrTodd]

We told you nothing good comes from attempting to compromise. Dealing with Gov Snyder is like dealing with the devil, and the SB 59 debacle continues to prove it.

It is time for open carriers, MOC, all other gun owner organizations in Michigan, and all other gun owners to now realize a lesson you should have known all along!

NOTHING GOOD COMES FROM COMPROMISE OR "PLAYING NICE" IN SECURING GUN RIGHTS.

THE ATTITUDE MUST BE ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!

We do not compromise OC'ers, we do not compromise CC'ers, we do not compromise home defenders, we do not compromise hunters, we do not compromise sport shooters, we do not compromise ANY GUN OWNERSHIP, ANY GUN POSSESSION, OR ANY GUN CARRY!

Dan, I've tried, you've tried, and others have too. They don't listen. The personal attacks continue while all around the house of cards is falling down. Just putting the last few nails in the OC coffin with a hammer supplied by people here. If somehow the Governor's desire is not made law perhaps OC can be resurrected. But, I expect more assaults over the coming years. I will bow out of posting publicly on OCDO for a while and do what I can with like minded individuals to attempt to stem the assault on OC. However, those people can't be found here. I had a very prescient person who was once quite active here state his belief that there were some here who were "agent provacatour" (sp) I didn't believe it at the time but, if he sees this now...you were right!

To all who have taken personal offence at what I've written, none was intended. Sometimes I underestimate the naivete of others and really, I shouldn't fault them. I assume that they did what they thought right at the time. No, this was done by design orchestrated by a few individuals.

If you have any suggestions on stopping the tide, pm me. But, it is pointless to post here and expect more than a few diehard souls to actually see what has happened. To me, it is a very sad moment in the annals of OC.

 

[davidmcbeth]

Be a Chamberlain or be a Churchill .... I prefer Churchill ...

 

[kubel]

Good post DanM. Hopefully this is a lesson to all of us, provided the powers that be cease purging all discussions that have documented the very organizations that helped push in this Trojan Horse. I fear this lesson will be erased from history by a conflict of interest.

 

[mastiff69]

NO Trade off's, NO Compromise, you do NOT, & I will not give away any Gun / firearm rights away for the sake of Compromise.
This bill SB59 or any other Firearm bill that requires any of us to trade/give away a right is not & or will never be on the table for discussion by me.

I will never support a bill or ORG that wants to trade off my RIGHT'S.

The people that read this forum, & all Proguner's had best wake up !
Any time you have to pay for a right, it is a Government Privilage!

And as far as the other Org's they NEVER supported Open Carry in the beginning, & belittled, argued, cryed, complained, etc... Yet I am being told that we are supporting this bill, so they will support open carry later, I say bull !

Sounds like Politic's to me, Nothing good ever came out of Compromising your right's.......................

 

[Raggs]

But remember that was a "loop hole"

Nothing was stopping CPL holders from carrying in those areas before the law was changed. Residents just chose not to become educated about, and those who did, for the most part, refused to exercise their rights. As a result, a new gun control bill has been introduced, and will likely be signed into law.

 

[Raggs]

If it was a loophole, it was one spelled out clearly by the Michigan State Police.

I maintain, that it was in the power of the legislature to pass the laws the way they chose to, and that's what they did. Therefore, no loophole.

Not according to MOC

 

[mastiff69]

New Org needed ? I am starting to wonder ? Time for a change ?

New Org needed ?
One that let's the members vote on all issues outside of normal operating issues.
Taking Stands on Issues, Supporting Bills, etc.... should be voted on by the members !
Was this done, ?
This is all I am going to say on this issue.....

What happened to the Original Open Carry Group ?
Where have they all gone ?
Why did they leave, resign, quit, refuse to renew their memberships ?

I know the answer's & most of the old timers know also, the orginal ones that started this group, we all know !

 

[autosurgeon]

IMOP many did the following. NOTE if this does not apply to you as an individual (whoever you may be) then I am not talking about you.

They took their ball and went home when they did not get their way on everything. Every group I have ever belonged to has had this happen... and to be honest to be part of a group you have to expect not everything will be to your liking all the time. Not to mention even if a group solicited a vote every time something came up they would still only get the same small number of people voting every time. Those people would be the ones that take the time to volunteer their time and be involved in the running of the group.

I have been involved since 2008... and have seen people come and go for many different reasons however the above reason was the most prevalent.

 

[mastiff69]

Autosurgen, You and I both & many others know why I left, we also know why many others left, becouse of the BS that went on.
And the sad part is that it still goes on in MOC & OCDO sites. If certain people wound stop playing games, Moc would grow. The fox is in the hen house !

But hence I am not a MOC Member.

 

[ghostrider]

IMOP many did the following. NOTE if this does not apply to you as an individual (whoever you may be) then I am not talking about you.

They took their ball and went home when they did not get their way on everything. Every group I have ever belonged to has had this happen... and to be honest to be part of a group you have to expect not everything will be to your liking all the time. Not to mention even if a group solicited a vote every time something came up they would still only get the same small number of people voting every time. Those people would be the ones that take the time to volunteer their time and be involved in the running of the group.

I have been involved since 2008... and have seen people come and go for many different reasons however the above reason was the most prevalent.

Wow!

What a complete misrepresentation ( )

I warned people about this years ago when I left because I saw the train coming. It isn't like this is a surprise.

Right, "People were acting like children just because they didn't want to be a party to all the personal attacks and cyber bullying that this group is so well known for." I suppose it's also childish to not want to be involved with a group that as a whole is more interested in winning people over by using a hammer than a spoon.

Here's a word:

Gaslighting

 

[Ezerharden]

If it was a loophole, it was one spelled out clearly by the Michigan State Police.

I maintain, that it was in the power of the legislature to pass the laws the way they chose to, and that's what they did. Therefore, no loophole.

May be, and an AG opinion too, but I seem to recall a sitting Judge stating that OC in PFZ's was "absurd". All it takes is that one Judge presiding over your case and you are screwed. MSP Updates and AG Opinions are NOT laws.

 

[DrTodd]

Wow!...

Good to see you are part of the conversation, ghostrider. PM me sometime.

 

[DetroitBiker]

Nothing was stopping CPL holders from carrying in those areas before the law was changed. Residents just chose not to become educated about, and those who did, for the most part, refused to exercise their rights. As a result, a new gun control bill has been introduced, and will likely be signed into law.

How did Open carry in a school (w/CPL) work out for you Neil?

Example: My local movie theater is a PFZ because of the seating capacity, If I were to open carry there
I will be asked to leave. And that's their right as its private property.

If SB59 passed I could carry in these places discreetly and nobody but myself would need to know.
I wouldn't be asked to leave, no hassle from MWAG calls to the police.

300,000+ CPL holders would have an option to carry in more places
I myself will definitely be carrying in a lot more places then I did before.

And If I want to Open Carry outside of the PFZ's, I still can

Just My Opinion

 

[ghostrider]

Good to see you are part of the conversation, ghostrider. PM me sometime.

Don't worry, it won't last long. Check your PM's. I already did, and I'll send another one.

 

[Bronson]

Wow!

What a complete misrepresentation ( )

I warned people about this years ago when I left because I saw the train coming. It isn't like this is a surprise.

Right, "People were acting like children just because they didn't want to be a party to all the personal attacks and cyber bullying that this group is so well known for." I suppose it's also childish to not want to be involved with a group that as a whole is more interested in winning people over by using a hammer than a spoon.

Here's a word:

Gaslighting

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

+many. What is truly sad is how many staunch OC supporters have chosen to leave MOC, not because of their policies or their decisions, but because they don't want to be associated with of the kind of behavior mentioned by ghostrider.

Bronson

 

[griffin]

I warned people about this years ago when I left because I saw the train coming. It isn't like this is a surprise.

I wasn't here (or at MOC) yeas ago. I've only been around for a year or so. Doesn't the board have a different make-up now than two years ago? Maybe a few are the same, like the IT director, but some of the most prominent positions are new, like President and VP, aren't they?

What happened years ago that was so bad? Feel free to PM if necessary. Thanks.

 

[Shadow Bear]

I wasn't here (or at MOC) yeas ago. I've only been around for a year or so. Doesn't the board have a different make-up now than two years ago? Maybe a few are the same, like the IT director, but some of the most prominent positions are new, like President and VP, aren't they?

What happened years ago that was so bad? Feel free to PM if necessary. Thanks.

Oh, good, its not just me. Not sure what all the bad juju that's going around is about.....seems like typical organizational behaviour to me.