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NFL SEASON OPENING AMID CONTROVERSY-- POLICE UNION PROTEST.

solus

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Interesting that no one yet commented on whether the police union were right or wrong in backing out of displaying the flag..

CCJ

er, uh, shifting on my feet, can i change your question just a smidgen?

why are there police unions, archaic institutions of the past, still in existence as they propagate waste in both labour and $$$$ as well as provide conflicting interests behind the actual LE overseer (JQPublic), countermand orders of and publicly challenge the Chief, as well as diminish the overall activities to community by the servants of the union are hired to serve?

"In a statement, Chief Williams said, "Recent statements made by the President of the Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association would lead one to believe that members of the Cleveland Division of Police are against participating in events with our Cleveland Browns athletes. This is simply not the viewpoint of all of our officers."

2016: "After a one-sided vote of "no confidence" in Chief William McManus, the San Antonio Police Officers Association is calling for his resignation and termination.

SAPOA President Michael Helle said 90 percent of the union membership cast ballots in the vote. Out of those members, 97 percent voted they did not "have confidence in the direction that Chief McManus is taking the department."


"This pains me to see a man that has lost his mojo. He's lost it with this department," Helle said.


The no confidence vote came in the wake of the police shooting on Antronie Scott, an unarmed man wanted on felony warrants in February. John Lee, the officer who shot him, was given a "contemplated indefinite suspension.""

Despite a backlash against military-style equipment, labor leaders say police need assault-style rifles and ballistic vests and helmets to protect against targeted killings and terrorism. https://www.usnews.com/news/article...new-push-for-tactical-gear-in-wake-of-attacks

https://www.policemisconduct.net/the-conflicting-interests-of-public-safety-and-police-unions/

finally read the pings about other atrocities being done by the police unions ~ https://www.google.com/search?q=cor...y5PWAhULilQKHUnzBkEQvwUIIygA&biw=1920&bih=950
 

countryclubjoe

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er, uh, shifting on my feet, can i change your question just a smidgen?

why are there police unions, archaic institutions of the past, still in existence as they propagate waste in both labour and $$$$ as well as provide conflicting interests behind the actual LE overseer (JQPublic), countermand orders of and publicly challenge the Chief, as well as diminish the overall activities to community by the servants of the union are hired to serve?

"In a statement, Chief Williams said, "Recent statements made by the President of the Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association would lead one to believe that members of the Cleveland Division of Police are against participating in events with our Cleveland Browns athletes. This is simply not the viewpoint of all of our officers."

2016: "After a one-sided vote of "no confidence" in Chief William McManus, the San Antonio Police Officers Association is calling for his resignation and termination.

SAPOA President Michael Helle said 90 percent of the union membership cast ballots in the vote. Out of those members, 97 percent voted they did not "have confidence in the direction that Chief McManus is taking the department."


"This pains me to see a man that has lost his mojo. He's lost it with this department," Helle said.


The no confidence vote came in the wake of the police shooting on Antronie Scott, an unarmed man wanted on felony warrants in February. John Lee, the officer who shot him, was given a "contemplated indefinite suspension.""

Despite a backlash against military-style equipment, labor leaders say police need assault-style rifles and ballistic vests and helmets to protect against targeted killings and terrorism. https://www.usnews.com/news/article...new-push-for-tactical-gear-in-wake-of-attacks

https://www.policemisconduct.net/the-conflicting-interests-of-public-safety-and-police-unions/

finally read the pings about other atrocities being done by the police unions ~ https://www.google.com/search?q=cor...y5PWAhULilQKHUnzBkEQvwUIIygA&biw=1920&bih=950

Police unions= big thieves protecting little thieves.
My .02
CCJ
 

OC for ME

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White Oak Plantation
Cop unions are not a government entity and they may do as they please. Government is not permitted to infringe upon our 1A. A private entity, a business, may do as they will under the law.
 
B

Bikenut

Guest
Originally Posted by Bikenut

No matter how you wish to 'spin" it in an attempt to give validity to those athletes and/or their athletic supporters when they take advantage of the spotlight in order to push their own personal agenda that has nothing to do with what they were hired for ... it still wont fly.

Suppose a shelf stocker at Wal Mart decided to give a speech about Trump being so heartless to all those poor DACA "kids" in the frozen foods aisle. Every soft hearted emotion based Trump hating leftist would applaud that shelf stocker just because of the subject matter but the plain truth is very simply that the shelf stocker needs to be fired because he is being paid to stock shelves and not to give speeches.

The reason for the kneeling, or the speeches, makes no difference if said kneeling is being done on the employer's dime. Unless the employer wishes to pay them for doing that kneeling or giving speeches. Apparently the NFL is willing to pay those athletes for kneeling hoping all the athletic supporters will continue to pay to watch them.

The employers seem to have no issue at this time.. Obviously their bottom line is not being hurt.

Comparing a Walmart stock boy with a million dollar franchise athlete seems a bit naive. Stock boys are a dime a dozen, said athletics not so much sow.. Unless you feel to pay hard earned money to watch said stock boy, stacking shelves.

My .02
CCJ
That particular attempt to "spin" won't fly either because it isn't about who is paying what to watch anyone but is all about who is getting paid ... by the employer!... to do what.

Athlete is paid by his employer to play ball not make political statements on the field. And the employer can decide to put a stop to any political theatrics by that employee at any time.

Stock boy is paid by his employer to stock shelves not make political statements in the frozen food aisle. And the employer can decide to put a stop to any political theatrics by that employee at any time.

And it is my opinion, my $.02 if you will, attempting to portray that in any other light is thinking other folks are naive enough to buy into the "spin".
 
Last edited by a moderator:

countryclubjoe

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That particular attempt to "spin" won't fly either because it isn't about who is paying what to watch anyone but is all about who is getting paid ... by the employer!... to do what.

Athlete is paid by his employer to play ball not make political statements on the field. And the employer can decide to put a stop to any political theatrics by that employee at any time.

Stock boy is paid by his employer to stock shelves not make political statements in the frozen food aisle. And the employer can decide to put a stop to any political theatrics by that employee at any time.

And it is my opinion, my $.02 if you will, attempting to portray that in any other light is thinking other folks are naive enough to buy into the "spin".

I suspect the practice by the players to continue with renewed vigor after the detainment and roughing up with gun pointed at his head of a marquee player name Michael Bennett (Seattle Seahawks)... Protesting violence by LE against law abiding citizens seems to be the mantra of the players. Again until the owners start taking a lose in revenue or the TV ratings fall, expect the practice to continue.. Also be advised, in my humble opinion owners and TV executives tend to concern themselves with what players do inside the lines as opposed to outside the lines... Personally I have no problem with said protest. They have a right to kneel during the anthem same as you have a right to stand and salute during said anthem. While I may not approve of either practice, I surely would support said right to practice either method. Hence fighting for personal liberties for each and for all.

My .02
Regards
CCJ
 

Fallschirjmäger

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They have a right to kneel during the anthem same as you have a right to stand and salute during said anthem. While I may not approve of either practice, I surely would support said right to practice either method. Hence fighting for personal liberties for each and for all.

Apples and oranges there, my learned friend.
Let's pretend that you own a business, maybe something like groundskeeping or something like that and you have two employees named Jesus and Jose. You're paying them to whack wheeds, but instead they stop every member of the country club walking around with a mint julep in their hand and harangue them on how terrible some petty tyrant is for the country. People get upset, they complain to the country club, and the country club complains to you that people have been suspending their costly memberships. As a result they're seriously considering hiring another company to maintain the grounds.

Now, tell me, do Jesus and Jose have a 'right' to accost country club members with political activism when you're Paying Them to Whack Weeds?
Will you still support their 'right' when the country club tells you to 'hit the bricks' as they've found someone else to trim the lawn that's not going to upset their dues paying members?
 
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countryclubjoe

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Apples and oranges there, my learned friend.
Let's pretend that you own a business, maybe something like groundskeeping or something like that and you have two employees named Jesus and Jose. You're paying them to whack wheeds, but instead they stop every member of the country club walking around with a mint julep in their hand and harangue them on how terrible some petty tyrant is for the country. People get upset, they complain to the country club, and the country club complains to you that people have been suspending their costly memberships. As a result they're seriously considering hiring another company to maintain the grounds.

Now, tell me, do Jesus and Jose have a 'right' to accost country club members with political activism when you're Paying Them to Whack Weeds?
Will you still support their 'right' when the country club tells you to 'hit the bricks' as they've found someone else to trim the lawn that's not going to upset their dues paying members?

Great query Sir!

If my workers are getting the work finished in a timely manner and the grounds are kept according to contract and they are not soliciting, then I need make a decision.. Some very snobby members may take unkind to Jose and Jesus simply saying good afternoon... I, support my employees and my customers rights. Also I employ the top counsel in the state for such trivial issues..

What if Jose and Jesus wanted to say a prayer every morning before practicing their fine craft of manicuring the 9th green and some Atheist member golfer took offense.. My point, all is relevant.. Employers must weigh the pros and cons of each situation.

In my 30 plus years of being self employed and employing well over 300 employees over the years, I have never fired an employee for exercising their freedom of speech or thought however I have fired a few for bad work habits.

In the 80s, I owned an upscale bar/restaurant that was a hang out for famous athletics and professional folks. I enforced a strict dress code. On a number of occasions I refused entry to said bar to some very high rolling/spending customers. I never sacrificed the house rules simply for a huge check at the end of the evening.. My place, my reputation, my rules.. And such is life.

My .02
Regards
CCJ
 

countryclubjoe

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Deleted by poster - no use in rehashing what everyone already knows by now.

Green Devil, please explain.. Who is " everyone" ? And when did everyone appoint you speaker on everyones behalf?

Be civil, be nice, we accomplish more via civil discourse than conjecture and exercising of detestation rhetoric.

When is your test date? Please don't stress out.. We are here for you oh Green Devil..

My .02
CCJ
 

countryclubjoe

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Messages
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Location
nj
Falls, I fear that you are stressing over the upcoming GED exam, hence how did you miss in my post # 15

Mute v Moot-- Please be advised I subtracted -3 points from your grammar nazi points score, you still have a commanding lead however I need you to keep me in line. Even the Bard of Avon studied the Father of English literature.

Please do not construe my badinage conversation as sophomoric banter, my concerns are serious regarding your GED exam.

Stress not Sir!.

My .02
CCJ
 

Grapeshot

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t1-546391-9920_4670960574791801849_n.jpg


People send me stuff, this from ENCS (SS) nuke Diesel Dave.
Salute.
 

countryclubjoe

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t1-546391-9920_4670960574791801849_n.jpg


People send me stuff, this from ENCS (SS) nuke Diesel Dave.

A totally horrible morbid action taking a pic of a dead person along with a mourner and sending said pic all over the internet.

Talk about disrespectful can one get any lower any more disrespectful ?

Just can't make this stuff up..

My .02

CCJ
 

solus

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Messages
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A totally horrible morbid action taking a pic of a dead person along with a mourner and sending said pic all over the internet.

Talk about disrespectful can one get any lower any more disrespectful ?

Just can't make this stuff up..

My .02

CCJ

I personally wondered about nightmare's rationale or the true point posting SFC Arrechaqa's resting in state prior to burial?
 

Fallschirjmäger

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Nothing is disrespectful about a professional photographer (non-paparazzo) respectfully memorializing a deceased person. The photo in question wasn't snapped surrepticiously with a cellpone.


You guys do realize that President Lincoln had an open casket mourning period, right?
 
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Grapeshot

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Some gave some, some gave all. IMHO such pictures pay homage to a fallen American serviceman, and demonstrate the effect on spouse.
I find nothing offensive in said picture - been done many times before and likely will be done again.

Hoorah!
 
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scooter348

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Northern Piedmont-Culpeper
May God bless the Sgt. and his loved ones.

If find it telling that certain members opined their displeasure with the photo, but couldn't take the time to write their respects.

"If they are attacking something, it must be effective"!
 

solus

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first, the appropriate title to the deceased military member is SGT First Class!

second, the time to pay respects to SFC Ofren Arrechaga was in 2011, condolences are now appropriate to his family.

third, a minor correction & historical perspective background to the moderator and their sentiment was understood..
The phrase "all gave some; some gave all" is widely attributed to the Korean War veteran and purple heart recipient Howard William Osterkamp from Dent, Ohio. Osterkamp served in the Army from 1951 to 1953, during which he experienced heavy combat in Korea with his unit, the C Company, 5th Regimental Combat.

fourth, since we were speaking about history, let's examine the song individuals have since before "Even baseball pioneer Jackie Robinson — complicated political history aside — couldn’t bring himself to sing the national anthem or salute the flag and when Olympic sprinters John Carlos and Tommie Smith won gold and bronze medals for the United States at the 1968 Olympic Games, raised their black-gloved fists as The Star-Spangled Banner was played, and were expelled by the International Olympic Committee.

The Star-Spangled Banner is actually four verses long, though, and features lyrics that go beyond what we’re used to hearing at presidential inaugurations, military ceremonies and sporting events.

Though the well-known first verse, “in which a young man peers into a foggy and rain-soaked dawn to find out whether his country has been conquered in battle, is urgent, open-hearted and honest,” the third verse all but contradicts any meaning of a “land of the free” and “home of the brave” (emphasis mine (authors)):


And where is that band who so vauntingly swore,
That the havoc of war and the battle’s confusion
A home and a Country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash’d out their foul footstep’s pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

The War of 1812 was caused, among other things, by Great Britain’s attempt to restrict U.S. trade and America’s desire to expand its northern territory by annexing Canada. By 1810, more than 15 percent of the U.S. population was enslaved, and British forces recruited escaped slaves to fight for the slaves’ freedom against the American militia. This unit, referred to as the Colonial Marines, was part of the British forces that overran Washington, D.C., in 1814 and set fire to the White House.


So when Key references the “foul footstep’s” of the “hireling and slave” who “no refuge could save” from “the gloom of the grave” in the third verse, he’s referring to the killing of Colonial Marines. As noted by The Root political editor Jason Johnson, “The Star-Spangled Banner is as much a patriotic song as it is a diss track to black people who had the audacity to fight for their freedom.

Key did not have a complicated or complex history with race. He “supported sending free blacks (not slaves) back to Africa and … was about as pro-slavery, anti-black and anti-abolitionist as you could get at the time,” Johnson wrote in his article for The Root. He owned slaves while writing the national anthem, at one point referring to blacks as “a distinct and inferior race of people.

Though Key won several legal cases on behalf of slaves during the 18th century, 20 years after writing the national anthem, he is believed to be responsible for inciting the Snow Riot of 1835 with the overzealous prosecution of a young black man accused of trying to kill his mistress. According to Smithsonian, Key “used his office as the District Attorney for the City of Washington from 1833 to 1840 to defend slavery, attacking the abolitionist movement in several high-profile cases,” including an episode wherein he unsuccessfully sought to have a New York doctor hanged."




finally, this is a thread about NFL season opening and perceived disrespect to our national anthem; therefore, to post an abstract personal photo out of the blue without a point is strictly a emotionally based ploy which makes it extremely disrespectful to SFC Ofren Arrechaga's honorable memory and I am sure opens deep personal memories of his death to his partner as well as the struggles the family endured 6+ years ago and possibly continue to endure to this day.

disrespectful, i ask you please reconsider your criticism and direct it towards the truly pointless rationale the individual who posted it for ~ emotional play!
 

scooter348

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Joined
Jun 2, 2014
Messages
172
Location
Northern Piedmont-Culpeper
first, the appropriate title to the deceased military member is SGT First Class!

second, the time to pay respects to SFC Ofren Arrechaga was in 2011, condolences are now appropriate to his family.

third, a minor correction & historical perspective background to the moderator and their sentiment was understood..
The phrase "all gave some; some gave all" is widely attributed to the Korean War veteran and purple heart recipient Howard William Osterkamp from Dent, Ohio. Osterkamp served in the Army from 1951 to 1953, during which he experienced heavy combat in Korea with his unit, the C Company, 5th Regimental Combat.

fourth, since we were speaking about history, let's examine the song individuals have since before "Even baseball pioneer Jackie Robinson — complicated political history aside — couldn’t bring himself to sing the national anthem or salute the flag and when Olympic sprinters John Carlos and Tommie Smith won gold and bronze medals for the United States at the 1968 Olympic Games, raised their black-gloved fists as The Star-Spangled Banner was played, and were expelled by the International Olympic Committee.

The Star-Spangled Banner is actually four verses long, though, and features lyrics that go beyond what we’re used to hearing at presidential inaugurations, military ceremonies and sporting events.

Though the well-known first verse, “in which a young man peers into a foggy and rain-soaked dawn to find out whether his country has been conquered in battle, is urgent, open-hearted and honest,” the third verse all but contradicts any meaning of a “land of the free” and “home of the brave” (emphasis mine (authors)):


And where is that band who so vauntingly swore,
That the havoc of war and the battle’s confusion
A home and a Country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash’d out their foul footstep’s pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

The War of 1812 was caused, among other things, by Great Britain’s attempt to restrict U.S. trade and America’s desire to expand its northern territory by annexing Canada. By 1810, more than 15 percent of the U.S. population was enslaved, and British forces recruited escaped slaves to fight for the slaves’ freedom against the American militia. This unit, referred to as the Colonial Marines, was part of the British forces that overran Washington, D.C., in 1814 and set fire to the White House.


So when Key references the “foul footstep’s” of the “hireling and slave” who “no refuge could save” from “the gloom of the grave” in the third verse, he’s referring to the killing of Colonial Marines. As noted by The Root political editor Jason Johnson, “The Star-Spangled Banner is as much a patriotic song as it is a diss track to black people who had the audacity to fight for their freedom.

Key did not have a complicated or complex history with race. He “supported sending free blacks (not slaves) back to Africa and … was about as pro-slavery, anti-black and anti-abolitionist as you could get at the time,” Johnson wrote in his article for The Root. He owned slaves while writing the national anthem, at one point referring to blacks as “a distinct and inferior race of people.

Though Key won several legal cases on behalf of slaves during the 18th century, 20 years after writing the national anthem, he is believed to be responsible for inciting the Snow Riot of 1835 with the overzealous prosecution of a young black man accused of trying to kill his mistress. According to Smithsonian, Key “used his office as the District Attorney for the City of Washington from 1833 to 1840 to defend slavery, attacking the abolitionist movement in several high-profile cases,” including an episode wherein he unsuccessfully sought to have a New York doctor hanged."




finally, this is a thread about NFL season opening and perceived disrespect to our national anthem; therefore, to post an abstract personal photo out of the blue without a point is strictly a emotionally based ploy which makes it extremely disrespectful to SFC Ofren Arrechaga's honorable memory and I am sure opens deep personal memories of his death to his partner as well as the struggles the family endured 6+ years ago and possibly continue to endure to this day.

disrespectful, i ask you please reconsider your criticism and direct it towards the truly pointless rationale the individual who posted it for ~ emotional play!

What makes you think I was even referring to you matey? A certain Carly Simon song comes to mind. Hmmm, which one was it?

"If they're attacking you, you must be doing something right"!
 
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