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cshoff

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Broondog wrote:
so it seems that Cshoff is telling all of us that if we were to carry upon our person a sidearm in our vehicle in an open fashion, in say for instance Ste. Genevieve (which has an ordinance prohibiting OC), that we would be breaking the law.

is that right dude?

or is it that the same mode of carry in the same town in the same vehicle is considered CC? if that is the case then I would be breaking the law since i don't hold a CC permit.
The biggest problem you seem to be having is in distinguishing the difference between what constitutes a "concealed" condition, versus what constitutes a "open" condition. You seem hell bent on calling a pistol, strapped to your waist, while you are in your vehicle "openly carried", yet it is not. That gun is concealed from outside view, and it is considered to be concealed. On the dashboard or in the rear window rack, on the other hand, would be considered "openly carried" and that is where you would/could run into problems in jurisdictions that have ordinances restricting open carry. You see, "open carry" actually has nothing to do with where a firearm is carried on or about your person, but everything to do with whether or not it is visible to a casual observer.

That is precisely the situation that got my friend a citation in STL City. He lives just outside of Sullivan and they commonly carry rifles and shotguns in the rear window rack of their pickup trucks in those rural areas. Well, as luck would have it, he had his .22 rifle in his rack when he left his home and headed for STL to conduct some business. He made it all the way down to Union Blvd. before he was pulled over, detained, and issued a citation. As I recall, they did not take the firearm or arrest him, but he did end up paying a $100 fine as a result. That's been about 3 years ago now, so it's possible that STL is now enforcing that ordinance differently.
 

cshoff

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nrepuyan wrote:
Broondog wrote:
so it seems that Cshoff is telling all of us that if we were to carry upon our person a sidearm in our vehicle in an open fashion, in say for instance Ste. Genevieve (which has an ordinance prohibiting OC), that we would be breaking the law.

is that right dude?

or is it that the same mode of carry in the same town in the same vehicle is considered CC? if that is the case then I would be breaking the law since i don't hold a CC permit.

my understanding is that within your personal dwelling including your car you can OC CC ABC XYZ etc etc all you want if you meet the age requirements...now...as soon as you step out of your vehicle in a place OC is regulated and you are OC'ing...then you have problems...
What age requirements are you referring to? Also, you are still operating under some kind of assumption that your vehicle is an arbitrary extension of your home which, as I've explained and demonstrated at least 3 times now in this thread, simply isn't the case. Furthermore, nowhere in RSMO Chapter 571 is there any kind of exemption to local open carry laws for a openly carried firearm inside of any vehicle. It simply doesn't exist.
 

cshoff

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Reverend BCal wrote:
Oh, man. Some people are just out for blood...

I never said that the Castle Doctrine was mumbo jumbo or mere speculation. I don't feel the need to elaborate further.

Are you 21? Bam. Legally able to own a firearm? Bam. Boo anti-OC city ordinances. Hooray car carry! State Law triumphs again.
Except, as I've already said and shown, there IS NO exemption from local OC laws in our car carry provision. You really need to read the statute in it's entirety, and you actually need to understand how statutes work before you jump to false conclusions.
 

sohighlyunlikely

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OC in a vehicle is another one where Missouri needs complete pre exemption. I have read the transport laws on most the muni's here in St Louis County. Some actually do give an exemption to OC in a vehicle. some give exemption to OC in a vehicle only if ammo is not readily accessible. I even found one or two that gave no exemption to OC even unloaded with ammo unaccessible, which may be in contradiction to the states code.

Doc
 

Superlite27

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It is perfectly legal to carry ANY firearm, in ANY manner, in ANY place within the vehicle, in Missouri.

Anyone who says differently will have to explain why any person may conceal a firearm within his vehicle without a CCW permit as long as they are lawfully permitted to posess a firearm, yet they cannot OC in their vehicle because a cities open carry ordinance affects them.

State law says anyone concealing a firearm is required to have a CCW or they are breaking the law.

Why is this law (which I can look at with my own eyes) irrellevant in vehicles, yet some law that doesn't even exist (show it to me) make OC illegal there?

I see laws making OC illegal in public. Now since the concealment of a weapon is moot inside the private property of a vehicle, how does OC make your private property (which makes WRITTEN CCW LAW irrellevant, remember?) suddenly turn into a public place. (the only palces affected by OC ordinances.)

Especially since nobody can cite any law making OC illegal inside a vehicle.

Don't try topull crap such as saying a public OC ban affects OC in the private passenger's compartment of a vehicle when you're using the same breath to say that established CCW law doesn't.

It is an established fact that actions that are not specifically forbidden by law are implicitly allowed by it. You will find no law allowing anything. There is no law allowing you to eat a caramel apple. Does this make eating them illegal? NO. It would only be illegal if there was a law specifically stating it was illegal. This applies to all actions. If we had to write laws defining legality, law books would neccessarily be HUMONGOUS as they would have to include ALL LEGAL ACTIONS.

Since this is impractical, the only thing we have to go by is laws that make actions illegal.

So far, for all of the talk, I HAVE FAILED TO NOTE ANY CITE TO ANY LAW MAKING OC INSIDE A VEHICLE ILLEGAL.

We've already established that real CCW laws arenulled by the interior of a vehicle.

Therefore........if real laws are nulled by the interior of a vehicle, why are nonexistant ones any different?

Unless someone cares to cite one?

Therefore.........
 

LMTD

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Duct tape applied to fingers,

I'm out.
 

sohighlyunlikely

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[suP]Look at Fenton. There law is stupid. They don't allow any OC for anyone any where other than picking up a school kid. Does that make sense? Look at section (E) you even break the law to OC to legaly defend yourself(no exemption given even there)[/suP]

SECTION 205.245: WEAPONS -- CARRYING CONCEALED -- OTHER UNLAWFUL USE
A. A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons if he/she knowingly:

1. Carries concealed upon or about his/her person a knife, a firearm, a blackjack or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use;

2. Sets a spring gun;

3. Discharges or shoots a firearm;

4. Exhibits, in the presence of one or more persons, any weapon readily capable of lethal use in an angry or threatening manner;

5. Possesses a firearm or projectile weapon while intoxicated;

6. Openly carries a firearm or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use except in Hunting Heritage Protection Areas as defined in Section 252.243, RSMo.;

7. Carries a firearm, whether loaded or unloaded, or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use into any school, onto any school bus, or onto the premises of any function or activity sponsored or sanctioned by school officials or the district school board.

B. Subparagraphs (1), (3), (4) and (7) of Subsection (A) of this Section shall not apply to or affect any of the following:

1. All State, County and Municipal Peace Officers who have completed the training required by the Police Officer Standards and Training Commission pursuant to Sections 590.030 to 590.050, RSMo., and possessing the duty and power of arrest for violation of the general criminal laws of the State or for violation of ordinances of Counties or Municipalities of the State, whether such officers are on or off duty, and whether such officers are within or outside of the law enforcement agency's jurisdiction, or all qualified retired Peace Officers, as defined in Subsection (10) of Section 571.030, RSMo., and who carry the identification defined in Subsection (11) of Section 571.030, RSMo., or any person summoned by such officers to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while actually engaged in assisting such officer;

2. Wardens, superintendents and keepers of prisons, penitentiaries, jails and other institutions for the detention of persons accused or convicted of an offense or crime;

3. Members of the Armed Forces or National Guard while performing their official duty;

4. Those persons vested by Article V, Section 1 of the Constitution of Missouri with the judicial power of the State and those persons vested by Article III of the Constitution of the United States with the judicial power of the United States, the members of the Federal judiciary;

5. Any person whose bona fide duty is to execute process, civil or criminal;

6. Any Federal Probation Officer or Federal Flight Deck Officer as defined under the Federal Flight Deck Officer Program, 49 U.S.C. Section 44921;

7. Any State Probation or Parole Officer, including supervisors and members of the Board of Probation and Parole;

8. Any corporate security advisor meeting the definition and fulfilling the requirements of the regulations established by the Board of Police Commissioners under Section 84.340, RSMo.; and

9. Any coroner, deputy coroner, medical examiner or assistant medical examiner.

C. Subparagraphs (1), (5) and (7) of Subsection (A) of this Section do not apply when the actor is transporting such weapons in a non-functioning state or in an unloaded state when ammunition is not readily accessible or when such weapons are not readily accessible. Subparagraph (1) of Subsection (A) of this Section does not apply to any person twenty-one (21) years of age or older transporting a concealable firearm in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle, so long as such concealable firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed, nor when the actor is also in possession of an exposed firearm or projectile weapon for the lawful pursuit of game, or is in his/her dwelling unit or upon premises over which the actor has possession, authority or control, or is traveling in a continuous journey peaceably through this State. Subparagraph (6) of Subsection (A) of this Section does not apply if the firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed by a person while traversing school premises for the purposes of transporting a student to or from school, or possessed by an adult for the purposes of facilitation of a school-sanctioned firearm-related event.

D. Subparagraphs (1) and (7) of Subsection (A) of this Section shall not apply to any person who has a valid concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to Sections 571.101 to 571.121, RSMo., or a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed firearms issued by another State or political subdivision of another State.

E. Subparagraphs (3), (4), (5) and (7) of Subsection (A) of this Section shall not apply to persons who are engaged in a lawful act of defense pursuant to Section 563.031, RSMo.

F. Nothing in this Section shall make it unlawful for a student to actually participate in school-sanctioned gun safety courses, student military or ROTC courses, or other school-sponsored firearm-related events, provided the student does not carry a firearm or other weapon readily capable of lethal use into any school, onto any school bus, or onto the premises of any other function or activity sponsored or sanctioned by school officials or the district school board.
 

cshoff

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Superlite27 wrote:
It is perfectly legal to carry ANY firearm, in ANY manner, in ANY place within the vehicle, in Missouri.

Anyone who says differently will have to explain why any person may conceal a firearm within his vehicle without a CCW permit as long as they are lawfully permitted to posess a firearm, yet they cannot OC in their vehicle because a cities open carry ordinance affects them.

State law says anyone concealing a firearm is required to have a CCW or they are breaking the law.

Why is this law (which I can look at with my own eyes) irrellevant in vehicles, yet some law that doesn't even exist (show it to me) make OC illegal there?

I see laws making OC illegal in public. Now since the concealment of a weapon is moot inside the private property of a vehicle, how does OC make your private property (which makes WRITTEN CCW LAW irrellevant, remember?) suddenly turn into a public place. (the only palces affected by OC ordinances.)

Especially since nobody can cite any law making OC illegal inside a vehicle.

Don't try topull crap such as saying a public OC ban affects OC in the private passenger's compartment of a vehicle when you're using the same breath to say that established CCW law doesn't.

It is an established fact that actions that are not specifically forbidden by law are implicitly allowed by it. You will find no law allowing anything. There is no law allowing you to eat a caramel apple. Does this make eating them illegal? NO. It would only be illegal if there was a law specifically stating it was illegal. This applies to all actions. If we had to write laws defining legality, law books would neccessarily be HUMONGOUS as they would have to include ALL LEGAL ACTIONS.

Since this is impractical, the only thing we have to go by is laws that make actions illegal.

So far, for all of the talk, I HAVE FAILED TO NOTE ANY CITE TO ANY LAW MAKING OC INSIDE A VEHICLE ILLEGAL.

We've already established that real CCW laws arenulled by the interior of a vehicle.

Therefore........if real laws are nulled by the interior of a vehicle, why are nonexistant ones any different?

Unless someone cares to cite one?

Therefore.........
Then you haven't been paying attention. There are numerous local ordinances around the state that restrict open carry, even in a vehicle.

It seems as though the biggest problem with folks here is they don't want to be bothered by what our statutes actually say, but instead they want to extrapolate portions of these laws and try to fit them to what they desire them to say and mean.

Let's start with this statement:

"It is perfectly legal to carry ANY firearm, in ANY manner, in ANY place within the vehicle, in Missouri.

Anyone who says differently will have to explain why any person may conceal a firearm within his vehicle without a CCW permit as long as they are lawfully permitted to posess a firearm, yet they cannot OC in their vehicle because a cities open carry ordinance affects them.


This is not only inaccurate, it could get someone in trouble. The reason a person who meets the legal requirements of 571.030.3 (21 years of age and lawfully entitled to possess a firearm) may carry a concealable firearm in a concealed manner on or about their person within the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle without a permit is because 571.030.3 specifically exempts a person that meets those requirements from 571.030.1 (1) which reads:

571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:
(1) Carries concealed upon or about his or her person a knife, a firearm, a blackjack or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use;
Nowhere does 571.030.3 specify any exemption to local open carry ordinances. Furthermore, if it did, it would have to do so in direct contradiction to RSMO 21.750 which expressly allows for municipalities to regulate and restrict open carry within their jurisdictions.

With all of that said, you now know the answer to this statement that you made: "Why is this law (which I can look at with my own eyes) irrellevant in vehicles, yet some law that doesn't even exist (show it to me) make OC illegal there?"

Moving on, we'll look at this statement next: "I see laws making OC illegal in public. Now since the concealment of a weapon is moot inside the private property of a vehicle, how does OC make your private property (which makes WRITTEN CCW LAW irrellevant, remember?) suddenly turn into a public place. (the only palces affected by OC ordinances.)

It doesn't. 571.030.3 has no effect on OC restrictions whatsoever. It only allows one who meets the requirements of the statute to carry a concealable firearm in a concealed manner in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle without a CCW permit. Again, you must read AND understand these statutes. You can't just pick and choose which parts you think are relevant.

Next: "Don't try topull crap such as saying a public OC ban affects OC in the private passenger's compartment of a vehicle when you're using the same breath to say that established CCW law doesn't.


It is an established fact that actions that are not specifically forbidden by law are implicitly allowed by it. You will find no law allowing anything. There is no law allowing you to eat a caramel apple. Does this make eating them illegal? NO. It would only be illegal if there was a law specifically stating it was illegal. This applies to all actions. If we had to write laws defining legality, law books would neccessarily be HUMONGOUS as they would have to include ALL LEGAL ACTIONS."

Since this is impractical, the only thing we have to go by is laws that make actions illegal.

So far, for all of the talk, I HAVE FAILED TO NOTE ANY CITE TO ANY LAW MAKING OC INSIDE A VEHICLE ILLEGAL.


You are failing to consider all of the local ordinances that restrict OC and that are in direct compliance with RSMO 21.750. THOSE are the laws that "specifically forbid" OC in certain jurisdictions. NOTHING in RSMO Chapter 571 has any effect on those ordinances whatsoever. You trying to extrapolate something out of Chapter 571 that will somehow change that fact still doesn't make it so.

Lastly: "We've already established that real CCW laws arenulled by the interior of a vehicle.

Therefore........if real laws are nulled by the interior of a vehicle, why are nonexistant ones any different?

Unless someone cares to cite one?

Therefore........."


Again, this is just incorrect. The interior of a vehicle does NOT make any CCW laws null. You are, once again, trying to extrapolate something out of RSMO 571.030.3 that simply isn't there. 571.030.3 simply provides an exemption to RSMO 571.030.1 (1) to those who do not have a CCW permit and meet the other other legal requirements of the statute.

Do yourself a favor and actually read the ENTIRE statute as it is written. It ONLY applies to concealable firearms being transported in a concealed manner. Here it is, in all of it's glory:

571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly: (1) Carries concealed upon or about his or her person a knife, a firearm, a blackjack or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use; or

.
.
.
3. Subdivisions (1), (5), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section do not apply when the actor is transporting such weapons in a nonfunctioning state or in an unloaded state when ammunition is not readily accessible or when such weapons are not readily accessible. Subdivision (1) of subsection 1 of this section does not apply to any person twenty-one years of age or older transporting a concealable firearm in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle, so long as such concealable firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed, nor when the actor is also in possession of an exposed firearm or projectile weapon for the lawful pursuit of game, or is in his or her dwelling unit or upon premises over which the actor has possession, authority or control, or is traveling in a continuous journey peaceably through this state. Subdivision (10) of subsection 1 of this section does not apply if the firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed by a person while traversing school premises for the purposes of transporting a student to or from school, or possessed by an adult for the purposes of facilitation of a school-sanctioned firearm-related event.
 

LMTD

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In an effort to neutrally put this totally away I offer the confusion that exist between OC and CC.

With all the honor and respect I can offer, there is a huge misunderstanding of law both current and past.

Mo's CCW law was developed in an OC friendly manner despite any opinions to the contrary. The whole purpose of the no license required exemption was for those whom choose OC. Despite opinions opposed when you OC, the moment you close the door on your car you now CC.

Cite:

The significant event in this case was Cooper's observance of the gun after Boucher exited the pickup. Cooper testified that the gun was stuck between the seat and the seat back. The gun was not in plain view prior to this time because Boucher was sitting on it and it was therefore concealed. Even if Boucher had not been sitting directly on top of the weapon, under Missouri law a weapon is concealed when it is not visible by ordinary observation even where it is visible from one particular vantage point. State v. Crews, 722 S.W.2d 653, 654 (Mo.Ct.App.1987). Carrying a concealed weapon is a violation of Missouri law. Mo.Rev.Stat. Sec. 571.030(1) (1986)

This was presented to the legislature for just what it was, a perfectly legal man sat in his car and closed the door, suddenly he becomes a criminal? They saw the truth and did not oppose the language.

This is exactly how petty the law can be and the interpretations of it still.

Superlight, when you left our coffee meet, while you may not have known of these petty interpretations, when you left and got in your car, when you closed the door, you were CCW despite your carrying in an OC holster, it was not visible from more than one vantage point while you were in the car.

I offer to everyone viewing this thread, we have to do better than this if we are to see change. We can not have highly visible debates over petty issues of law on the most popular OC web space and a highly publicized one as well. When we do we telegraph every chit in our armor and are left to extremism's.

We lost our rights incrementally, we will gain them back in that same manner, I fully agree with uncle Ted, the second amendment is my right to CC and OC but most folks want the buzz words and we are going to have to give them that whether we like it or not.

I offer that if an OC preemption for MO for revolving pistols only, I would support it and push for it. I would do so despite my disappointment as I am a 1911 and XD fan. I would also purchase a GP 100, an L frame, or a Python because of my own preferences, as yourself what you would do and keep it to yourself. If through our frustrations with our inability to carry whatever we want we said pussification, dweebs, morons, liars, non-2a supporters or Anti's we have sent a message to those whom tried to help us as best they could and remain in office next year.

IMHO we are our own worst enemies when we go public especially on a high profile webspace. Do I support the guy's right to take an ar to a political protest, yes, despite my own thoughts on it lacking wisdom, I give him the right to think it wise. I give anyone including the anti-gun folks that, it crosses to free speech no matter how dumb the speech actually is in my opinion.

We have to curb our passions and take these things private, We have to avoid debates over "legal" because they become the most extreme views. The anti's use these extreme views to point and say "see what I mean, they want to USE a gun anywhere" etc. Felons rights, forget your view point for ten seconds and define felon first. Then remember that 95% of the folks will not take that ten seconds and remeber they are likely a felon too, just not a caught and convicted one or they had the money got them out of that felony DUI, ask Leonard Little bout that. It is a buzz word like assault weapon.

Perception is the reality of most folks, lets not display one they take a way and point back at over and over, don't forget, some of these folks have no idea folks like Michael Moore will lie to them for their cause. Make them work for the lies.

To those whom heard my promise to try, this is the best I have gents, and we have to do better than this if we are to achieve our goals.
 

LMTD

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I chose not to edit what was said, however the cite was not what was presented to the legislators, the simple fat that the act of closing the door created a criminal was the point and I worded it poorly.
 

stled

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Page 4 top right hand corner from the MO Highway Patrol website


http://www.mshp.dps.missouri.gov/MSHPWeb/Publications/Brochures/documents/SHP-863.pdf

In addition to the concealed carry endorsement discussed above,
Missouri now permits any person who is at least 21 years old to transport
a concealable firearm in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle.
No concealed carry endorsement is required. Under the old law, the
peaceable journey exception to the unlawful-use-of-a-weapon law permitted
travelers on a continuous peaceable journey to carry a concealed
weapon. The peaceable journey exception is still in the law, and may apply
in circumstances where the new law does not (i.e. if the person is less
than 21 years old). Also, any coroner, deputy coroner, medical examiner,
or assistant medical examiner may carry a concealable firearm upon or
about their person without an endorsement.
Note: This law does not affect the law prohibiting possession of a concealable
firearm by a dangerous felon.

Hope this helps, Ed

Bye the way a motorcycle is a vehicle and the passenger compartment extends within the limits of the length and width tip to tip.
 

fujifilm

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Except in lawful persuit of game

Title 3—DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION
Division 10—Conservation Commission
Chapter 7—Wildlife Code: Hunting: Seasons, Methods, Limits
...
(2) There shall be no closed season on sparrows or European Starlings.
...
(G) Firearms may be used to take wildlife (except beaver, mink, muskrat, river otter, turtles, and fish) during the open seasons, with the following limitations:
For hunting game birds (except the crow), pistols, revolvers, and rifles may not be used.
Except for hunting deer, any shotgun having a capacity of more than three (3) shells must have the magazine cut off or plugged with a device incapable of removal through the loading end, so as to reduce the capacity to not more than three (3) shells in magazine and chamber combined. Fully automatic firearms are prohibited

This leads me to believe that one could be in lawful pursuit of game (European Starlings) year-round using a shotgun.

Crow season this year is 11/01/2012 to 03/03/2013 and may be hunted with rifle, pistol, shotgun, crossbow, etc.

You would of course, need your $11 resident small-game hunting permit. However, it is good for anything except fish, deer, turkeys, and migritory birds and there is quite often something in season.

Maybe this is not applicable in St. Louis - if you cannot be in lawful pursuit of game there? I don't know. I'm just presenting some ideas for others to study.
Me - I'm always hunting European Starlings...


[URL="http://www.sos.mo.gov/adrules/csr/current/3csr/3c10-7.pdf[/URL]
 

LMTD

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Maybe this is not applicable in St. Louis - if you cannot be in lawful pursuit of game there? I don't know. I'm just presenting some ideas for others to study.
Me - I'm always hunting European Starlings...


[URL="http://www.sos.mo.gov/adrules/csr/current/3csr/3c10-7.pdf[/URL]

You will find that rsmo 21.750 exempts everything BUT OC and DISCHARGE. We speak of OC all the time, however you will find discharge is indeed regulated in STL aka no hunting. I am not sure one could find a place in St Louis city that firing a firearm would be ":safe" aka no real good backstops so not a lot of wisdom beyond self defense to drop the hammer on any weapon in STL.

On a side note, you do know you are responding to a thread that is over 2 years old, many of the persons involved in the thread have left ocdo for other interest.
 

fujifilm

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OC of non-handguns in vehicles outside of St. Louis

You will find that rsmo 21.750 exempts everything BUT OC and DISCHARGE. We speak of OC all the time, however you will find discharge is indeed regulated in STL aka no hunting. I am not sure one could find a place in St Louis city that firing a firearm would be ":safe" aka no real good backstops so not a lot of wisdom beyond self defense to drop the hammer on any weapon in STL.

On a side note, you do know you are responding to a thread that is over 2 years old, many of the persons involved in the thread have left ocdo for other interest.
Yes, I realize it was old, but located it via a search & read it anyway.

My main intent was addressing OC in Missouri vehicles with long guns unconcealed & "in pursuit of game".
If this was a St. Louis only issue, then my point was moot & you can ignore this and I apologize for taking up your time.

However, I wanted to address OC of long guns in vehicles in other parts of Missouri as well. As long as this method is understood, it's very common in rural areas of MO. All you have to remember is that you're hunting something which you are licensed for, whether or not there are any for miles.
Was the issue of carrying a shotgun in a rifle rack uncased a St. Louis only question? Because I've never heard of any issues with it.
 

LMTD

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Yes, I realize it was old, but located it via a search & read it anyway.

My main intent was addressing OC in Missouri vehicles with long guns unconcealed & "in pursuit of game".
If this was a St. Louis only issue, then my point was moot & you can ignore this and I apologize for taking up your time.

No need at all to apologize, old threads often contain a wealth of information, I was simply pointing it out in case you missed it.

The defense of a long gun in a rack because one was hunting is not going to sell well in court, especially in some place like STL where there is no hunting allowed which was my point.

It is also notable that the entire topic of OC of long guns is a violation of the rules around here, the site has no opinions on it but clearly defines this webspace is dedicated to the open carry of pistols.

Now on a side note, I do not agree with your theory at any level and I believe you are confusing the issues. The wild life code is dictating HOW one may take game, not how one may transport weapons. Secondly, if you are "hunting" in Missouri, you had better not find yourself inside a vehicle, they frown on that a lot unless one has special situations such as mobility problems.

Just because you can shoot a bird with a shot gun, it does not supersede firearms laws of the state or municipality let alone alter the way the firearm must be transported to the hunting area. I would not put myself into a position with a loaded long gun out of sight either as the concealed weapons law does address it as "concealable firearm" aka a pistol. Opinions vary, I like my freedom and that is my position that best retains confidence I will retain that freedom.
 

fujifilm

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Sorry - didn't know it was pistols only. Thanks for all of your help!

No need at all to apologize, old threads often contain a wealth of information, I was simply pointing it out in case you missed it.

The defense of a long gun in a rack because one was hunting is not going to sell well in court, especially in some place like STL where there is no hunting allowed which was my point.
OK. I wanted to confirm the the big-city connection.


It is also notable that the entire topic of OC of long guns is a violation of the rules around here, the site has no opinions on it but clearly defines this webspace is dedicated to the open carry of pistols.

I did not know that - but I probably should have noticed. Perhaps I saw some mention of instances on here, but didn't see them get their Pee-Pees wacked for it.:eek: J/K!

Now on a side note, I do not agree with your theory at any level and I believe you are confusing the issues. The wild life code is dictating HOW one may take game, not how one may transport weapons. Secondly, if you are "hunting" in Missouri, you had better not find yourself inside a vehicle, they frown on that a lot unless one has special situations such as mobility problems.

Of course not from a vehicle or roadway, but when moving from a friends farm to another location, we just toss the guns in and go. It's been that way for the 12 years I've lived here and long before that per old-timers. I'm trying to think of someone I know that has/has used a gun case during deer season. I'm not even sure quite a few own a case to my knowledge.

I've taken guns to the local gunsmith (retired deputy) sans case and nothing was said.
I bought one case two years ago because I occasionally bop over to IL to visit a friend, but have cancelled it several times because "I'm right across the river, but - damn - still have a gun in here!"

Just because you can shoot a bird with a shot gun, it does not supersede firearms laws of the state or municipality let alone alter the way the firearm must be transported to the hunting area. I would not put myself into a position with a loaded long gun out of sight either as the concealed weapons law does address it as "concealable firearm" aka a pistol. Opinions vary, I like my freedom and that is my position that best retains confidence I will retain that freedom.

It seems like your hunting areas are somewhat more defined around STL. Ours are any friends land we have permission for and it's typical to hunt one place for a hour or so and toss the crap in the truck & mosey on to the next.

Well, good luck with your good mission. I support even pistols carried openly ;D (seriously!).

I'm wondering if the concealable firearm .vs. non-concealable thing changed when the CCW laws came out and they allowed for carrying a concealable weapon in a vehicle...
(Just wondering - not asking :lol: Way OT already as is!)
Thanks for your time!
 

LMTD

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It is NOT illegal to OC a rifle, shotgun or pistol in the vast majority of MO, some where around 15% of the land is effected over all.

What exist is the power of political subdivisions (cities, counties, townships) to restrict OC and Discharge of a firearm, all other aspects of firearms ownership, ammo, reloading etc are NOT allowed to be regulated at all other than the state level.

That is our quest, to get OC excluded as well. In a town that restricts OC, it includes all firearms of any type.

federal law aka peaceable journey says "cased and unloaded" which some states such as NY violate that on a regular basis. MO is good in that respect, anyone legal to be in possession of a firearm may have a concealable firearm (pistol) concealed and loaded in their car at any time. Some debate the concealable part, I frankly think a loaded 308 in the back seat or behind the seat would not be a big deal and might even get beat in court, but the key is, you MIGHT have to fight it. Call it economic infringement aka they might not win the case, but they can make it cost ya.

Good luck to ya and feel quite free to hang out around here if it suits ya, there are a LOT of really smart folks who can quote the applicable laws verbatim when questions arise, not to mention we have get together s and stuff ourselves from time to time.
 

fujifilm

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Ah! Can (usually) OC long guns in MO. Thanks for the OT assist!

It is NOT illegal to OC a rifle, shotgun or pistol in the vast majority of MO, some where around 15% of the land is effected over all.
.
Ah! THAT was what I didn't get!::idea:
Well, I THOUGHT I got it but was suddenly confused (which is not entirely unheard of...).
What exist is the power of political subdivisions (cities, counties, townships) to restrict OC and Discharge of a firearm, all other aspects of firearms ownership, ammo, reloading etc are NOT allowed to be regulated at all other than the state level.

That is our quest, to get OC excluded as well. In a town that restricts OC, it includes all firearms of any type.
Wonderful goal - especially what a nightmare the mish-mash of local restrictions create.
You need a GPS with a color-coded overlay and daily map updates to stay legal.

I have learned much reading already - especially how to protects rights when dealing with a LEO.
"Am I free to go?", etc. Great info!
federal law aka peaceable journey says "cased and unloaded" which some states such as NY violate that on a regular basis. MO is good in that respect, anyone legal to be in possession of a firearm may have a concealable firearm (pistol) concealed and loaded in their car at any time. Some debate the concealable part, I frankly think a loaded 308 in the back seat or behind the seat would not be a big deal and might even get beat in court, but the key is, you MIGHT have to fight it. Call it economic infringement aka they might not win the case, but they can make it cost ya.
What an weird way the concealed weapon in vehicle law is worded. I mean, it's better than nothing, but could use some fine-tuning I think.
My take: You can only conceal something that's concealable? Who's bright idea was that?
Give me a tarp with a zipper and I could make a lot of stuff concealable! Behind the seat in a truck IS the perfect spot for a .308 IMO/IME.
Good luck to ya and feel quite free to hang out around here if it suits ya, there are a LOT of really smart folks who can quote the applicable laws verbatim when questions arise, not to mention we have get together s and stuff ourselves from time to time.
Thank you sir! WILCO.
As a former resident of IL (and even Chicago for 10 years :cry:) - I am Very sympathetic to OC/CC issues (yes, I did use a case in IL) and would not like to lose what is a very good deal in MO by comparison.
If you have something around Hannibal or parts northeast, I would be be interested in participating.
 
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