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New bill in Senate

solus

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Mental health " professionals " using the term very loosely, don't show up at your doorstep with a swat team demanding your property because your ex said she thinks your a threat .

Just sayin

Ghost, you are exhibiting suicide ideation according to your close friends who called your MH provider who called LEs and is accompanying them to ‘assist you’ to the hospital for a mental observation period and based on the MH’s on site assessment after arrival to your premises, and if in their opinion you are high risk but could wait till the morning to be seen, the nice LEs will request/demand your firearms be removed from your premises, you refuse you will be taken in for your observation period, willing or not.
[ky 645.120 -juvenile or 202A ]
 

Ghost1958

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Ghost, you are exhibiting suicide ideation according to your close friends who called your MH provider who called LEs and is accompanying them to ‘assist you’ to the hospital for a mental observation period and based on the MH’s on site assessment after arrival to your premises, and if in their opinion you are high risk but could wait till the morning to be seen, the nice LEs will request/demand your firearms be removed from your premises, you refuse you will be taken in for your observation period, willing or not.
[ky 645.120 -juvenile or 202A ]

You need to read the statute you posted again.
 

Ghost1958

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You need to read the statute you posted again.

Not in this state they won't. Not without a court .
They have two options
Either put you on a 72 hold in patient. And go to court to get you ordered involuntarily committed.

Or send you home and leave you alone.
That's the extent of a mental health docs authority.
LE cannot demand ask or beg and remove your firearms without you being involuntarily committed by a court.

Even if you are having problems as long as you enter voluntarily, LE can simply NOT confiscate your weapons, or remove a ccdw permit.
 

solus

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645.120, quote:
If, as a result of mental illness, a child appears in need of immediate hospitalization for observation, diagnosis, or treatment, a peace officer or any interested person may either take the child to a hospital, mental health facility...unquote

202-011
(12) “Qualified mental health professional” means:
(c) A psychologist
(f) A marriage and family therapist
(g) A professional counselor

202-026
No person shall be involuntarily hospitalized unless such person is a mentally ill person: (1) Who presents a danger or threat of danger to self, family or others as a result of the mental illness;...

202-031
An authorized staff physician may order the admission of any person who is present at, or is presented at, a hospital. For the purposes of this subsection only, a hospital may include any acute care hospital that is licensed by the Commonwealth. Within twenty-four (24) hours (excluding weekends and holidays) of the admission under this section, the authorized staff physician ordering the admission of the individual shall certify in the record of the individual that in his opinion the individual should be involuntarily hospitalized.
(2) Any individual who has been admitted to a hospital under subsection (1) of this section shall be released from the hospital within seventy-two (72) hours (excluding weekends and holidays) unless further detained under the applicable provisions of this chapter.

202-185
If a patient undergoing involuntary treatment on an inpatient basis is absent from the hospital without, or in excess of authorization from the hospital staff, the person in charge or that person’s designee may contact the appropriate sheriff or other peace officers who shall take the patient into custody and return the patient to the hospital.

202-303
Persons carrying out duties or rendering professional opinions as provided in this chapter shall be free of personal liability for such actions, provided that such activities are performed in good faith within the scope of their professional duties and in a manner consistent with accepted professional practices.
Unquote Ky legislative site.

Now ghost your kind attention is directed to 202-026, if LE is on scene and as i stated in previous post it is decided to let in individual wait instead of immediate hospitalization you honestly and truly believe they are going to allow firearms in their presence?
 

eye95

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The logical question is not “Are they going to allow...?”, but “Can they lawfully seize...?”

Of course, if LEOs are present for lawful purposes in a person’s house, the officers can temporarily take custody of, for their safety, any firearms readily available to the person, until the end of the lawful encounter. If the officers then leave, without taking the person into custody, or having him or her taken into mental health custody, under what legal authority can they choose not to allow firearms to remain?
 

color of law

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The logical question is not “Are they going to allow...?”, but “Can they lawfully seize...?”

Of course, if LEOs are present for lawful purposes in a person’s house, the officers can temporarily take custody of, for their safety, any firearms readily available to the person, until the end of the lawful encounter. If the officers then leave, without taking the person into custody, or having him or her taken into mental health custody, under what legal authority can they choose not to allow firearms to remain?
Lets be careful with the phrase "any firearms readily available to the person." Without a warrant they cannot search the house for anything. It must be in plain sight. But, most people are so stupid that they will tell the cops where the weapons are stashed when asked. And, then the cops will claim that you gave them permission to seize them.
 

Ghost1958

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645.120, quote:
If, as a result of mental illness, a child appears in need of immediate hospitalization for observation, diagnosis, or treatment, a peace officer or any interested person may either take the child to a hospital, mental health facility...unquote

202-011
(12) “Qualified mental health professional” means:
(c) A psychologist
(f) A marriage and family therapist
(g) A professional counselor

202-026
No person shall be involuntarily hospitalized unless such person is a mentally ill person: (1) Who presents a danger or threat of danger to self, family or others as a result of the mental illness;...

202-031
An authorized staff physician may order the admission of any person who is present at, or is presented at, a hospital. For the purposes of this subsection only, a hospital may include any acute care hospital that is licensed by the Commonwealth. Within twenty-four (24) hours (excluding weekends and holidays) of the admission under this section, the authorized staff physician ordering the admission of the individual shall certify in the record of the individual that in his opinion the individual should be involuntarily hospitalized.
(2) Any individual who has been admitted to a hospital under subsection (1) of this section shall be released from the hospital within seventy-two (72) hours (excluding weekends and holidays) unless further detained under the applicable provisions of this chapter.

202-185
If a patient undergoing involuntary treatment on an inpatient basis is absent from the hospital without, or in excess of authorization from the hospital staff, the person in charge or that person’s designee may contact the appropriate sheriff or other peace officers who shall take the patient into custody and return the patient to the hospital.

202-303
Persons carrying out duties or rendering professional opinions as provided in this chapter shall be free of personal liability for such actions, provided that such activities are performed in good faith within the scope of their professional duties and in a manner consistent with accepted professional practices.
Unquote Ky legislative site.

Now ghost your kind attention is directed to 202-026, if LE is on scene and as i stated in previous post it is decided to let in individual wait instead of immediate hospitalization you honestly and truly believe they are going to allow firearms in their presence?

They have no choice.

All voluntary may leave whenever they please.
72 hours is max emergency hold. Most of what your posting is for juvenile s or a person leaving while on 72 hr hold

My wife worked in the field for years. And spoke to the state legislature, one of the subjects being what we are discussing.
You are with all due respect, simply mistaken .
 
Last edited:

Ghost1958

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The logical question is not “Are they going to allow...?”, but “Can they lawfully seize...?”

Of course, if LEOs are present for lawful purposes in a person’s house, the officers can temporarily take custody of, for their safety, any firearms readily available to the person, until the end of the lawful encounter. If the officers then leave, without taking the person into custody, or having him or her taken into mental health custody, under what legal authority can they choose not to allow firearms to remain?

They simply put can't take the persons firearms. Even if they take that person in for a 72 hr hold they STILL cannot sieze firearms from that persons residence without a court order adjudicating that person into treatment.

I'm speaking of KY only.
 

eye95

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Lets be careful with the phrase "any firearms readily available to the person." Without a warrant they cannot search the house for anything. It must be in plain sight. But, most people are so stupid that they will tell the cops where the weapons are stashed when asked. And, then the cops will claim that you gave them permission to seize them.
I did not say “search”. My comment was not regarding searches.

“Readily available” would not include “in the safe in the basement”. It would include “on the hip” or “on the coffee table, 3 feet to the person’s right”.
 

eye95

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They simply put can't take the persons firearms. Even if they take that person in for a 72 hr hold they STILL cannot sieze firearms from that persons residence without a court order adjudicating that person into treatment.

I'm speaking of KY only.
They sure can, temporarily and for the specific purpose I mentioned.

To reiterate: LEOs can temporarily take readily available firearms while they are lawfully on your premises “for officer safety”.

I was supporting your point, not refuting it, just stating a qualification to forestall the picking of nits.

I then asked a question, mainly rhetorical, to which I expected the only possible reply could be “None.”
 

color of law

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I did not say “search”. My comment was not regarding searches.

“Readily available” would not include “in the safe in the basement”. It would include “on the hip” or “on the coffee table, 3 feet to the person’s right”.
Sitting on the edge of the bed and a gun in the nightstand drawer. That is "readily available," but not in plain sight.
 

Ghost1958

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They sure can, temporarily and for the specific purpose I mentioned.

To reiterate: LEOs can temporarily take readily available firearms while they are lawfully on your premises “for officer safety”.

I was supporting your point, not refuting it, just stating a qualification to forestall the picking of nits.

I then asked a question, mainly rhetorical, to which I expected the only possible reply could be “None.”

I quoted the wrong post by mistake.

While in the persons home, they can take temp custody of visible firearms for their safety , but that's it and shakey ground for the officer to do in a persons home. Most won't.
Even if they take the person in for eval they cannot take that persons firearms from their home without a court order after that person has been lawfully adjudicated as mental by a court trial.
 

solus

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So ghost, LEs are not permitted, w/o court order? Humm all those firearms taken from vehicles during traffic stops or during LE’s RAS stops, searches, ad nauseam have judicial order?

LE’s always follow and never operate outside established legal mandates now do they ghost...? [laughing and chuckling profusely at that absurdly nonsensical concept!]
 

Ghost1958

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So ghost, LEs are not permitted, w/o court order? Humm all those firearms taken from vehicles during traffic stops or during LE’s RAS stops, searches, ad nauseam have judicial order?

LE’s always follow and never operate outside established legal mandates now do they ghost...? [laughing and chuckling profusely at that absurdly nonsensical concept!]
Laugh all you like.

Yep. LE can temporarily take control of a weapon during a traffic stop.

Or a Terri stop.

But he must return the weapon after the stop etc is over. Otherwise the officer is simply a thief.





They by law cannot sieze a persons guns because they are on a 72 hr emergency hold for mental eval. Simple as that.

Unless arresting the person for a crime , at least in my state, removing a persons firearms takes a court order.

That a lot of LE are crooks not wothstsnding
 

OC for ME

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Sitting on the edge of the bed and a gun in the nightstand drawer. That is "readily available," but not in plain sight.
What specific reasonable inferences, which he is entitled to draw from the facts in light of his experience, would lead a cop to believe that a pistol is in the nightstand drawer.
 

Ghost1958

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If the cop can see the firearm he can in theory, secure it temporarily while he is present. Mostly applicable to vehicles.

In a home securing firearms is much shakier ground for the officer unless he can articulate some reasonable grounds he did so.

Just because a cop is at or in your home talking to you does not give him any authority to even temporarily sieze firearms. As it should be.
 
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