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Man shot 22 times before finally going down.

40s-and-wfan

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Pagan wrote:
...the lethality is beyond doubt, same as the .45acp both PROVEN killers in real world combat...
I think the part in the bold is a little bit of a stretch of the imagination, but I'll agree with the fact that it's had more time to prove itself in combat than the .40S&W has. That part is irrefutable!!
The US Military was looking (for a while at least) to replace the .223 with something that they feel to be a little more effective. They're also looking to replace the 9MM with something a little more effective as well! They know it's not the manstopper they want otherwise they wouldn't be wanting to replace it!!

The .40S&W is without a doubt, more effective than the 9MM but as you said, it has not had enough time to prove itself as other calibers have!! I got rid of all my 9MM's a long time ago because I didn't like the fact that I had to carry 2-3 times as many magazines as a cop in order to feel I had the same firepower as a .40 or .45!

I guess the point of my argument is that if you feel the 9MM and the .45ACP have the same "lethality" or are ballistically equivalent, you obviously haven't read too many articles on the subject, nor have you had enough experience with the calibers!! I've seen the result of getting shot with all three calibers and I can honestly say, I'd rather take the .40S&W or the .45ACP over the 9MM any day of the week!!
 

Volomon

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I'm just going to point this out. Any round can be fired into anyone multiple times and it not phase them. Adrenaline is the key component. Drugs just alter this effect.

Now I haven't read this but I guarantee, the bullet was designed for penetration and the suspect was less than 14 feet. This creates holes. High power grain plus any form of penetration design is going to net you TOO much penetrating power.

The hate on the 40 S&W is unneed. 45ACP has done the same thing. Not to the extend of 22 shots. The most I've heard has been 14 shots.

The man fired into another attack with a knife 9 times in the front and the rest as he was running away. The defender was shooting so fast he didn't have time to realize he was shooting the man in the back as it was night and he was wearing dark clothes. Of course the reason he kept shooting was because the man wouldn't go down.

Oh the surprise? He still didn't die from that he survived, to help prosecute the defender.

This story was used as a reason why ammo is important, because this was deemed EXCESSIVE force.

He was using a high penetration round.

Also one myth to point out about .45s is that it was used during a war in which they used smaller calibur for more ammo. When they switched to .45 it was deemed a serious improvement over the other ammo which I can't recall. The man stopped myth arose from this. Though technically not a myth more like an over exaggeration. As in those military times NO DATA was collected from those kills.

The difference between a 40 and a 45 are what 1-2%. 9mm is a mere 4% below this. The calibur no longer matters its the technology and quality of the bullet. If you use ball ammo you might as well be in the stone age throwing rocks compared to whats available today.

I'm not sure when this happened but there was a point in time where a number of ammo which were hollowpoint had issue with overpenetration. A bullet that overpenetrates has no time to expand in the body like its suppose to.
 

compmanio365

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Shot placement and proper penetration are key to putting effective, stopping hits on target. This is why carrying hollow points, especially in urban areas, is so important. Ball ammo, especially in .40 and 9mm, goes too fast and overpenetrates, leaving a small hole in the person, and you are waiting for the person to lose enough blood to stop fighting. JHPs, OTOH, will expand and do more damage to internal organs, and should stay inside the target, causing more damage with every movement and will generally put down an attacker much quicker.
 

MSC 45ACP

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We all know that shot placement is everything. I'm not going to rekindle the "9mm vs .45 vs .40" debate, either.

I think its unanamously agreed that any major caliber application to the brain bucket will cancel Christmas rather effectively. The mob's favorite assassination weapon was a .22 cal behind the ear because the small round would go around and around in the skull, causing a lot of damage. .22 rounds are also very difficult if not impossible to trace.

This case is exactly why you should react in real life like you train... IF you train realistically... You shoot until the threat is no longer a threat. You aren't shooting to kill. You aren't shooting to maim. You aren't shooting to wound. In court, you are shooting to STOP the person from doing what they were doing in the first place: Putting your life or the lives of others in jeopardy.

As long as the threat remains a threat and I have ammunition remaining, I will continue firing until the threat stops. You need to be able to ARTICULATE this in court. What do you say when the police get there? MAY I TALK TO MY LAWYER, PLEASE? I WOULD LIKE TO TALK TO A LAWYER. PLEASE LET ME CALL MY LAWYER. (I'm sure you get the picture)

The police areprobably not going to like the fact that my .45's slide is probably going to be locked to the rear or have a fresh magazine in it after being reloaded. They definitely won't like the fact that a BG is lying there with (hopefully) many .45 entrance holes in very close proximity to each other.

Like everyone else (should), I envision a new defensive situation every time I enter a room or leave the house. I don't think of myself of being Dirty Harry, the Masked Avenger or a vigilante. I'm just interested in protecting the lives of my family and those around me should "something bad happen".

I'm sure this cop never dreamed he would have to shoot someone 22 times to "compel compliance". I can't imagine putting all 24 rounds of .45 cal Hydrashoks into someone and them not stopping. Situations like this make me wonder if carrying justone extra magazine is enough.

What the human body can endure while being driven by pure adreneline is truly amazing...

Semper Paratus
 
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