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Im nervous about the background check to purchase a handgun.

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
i have a cousine who when he was 18, just didnt like the army and was homesick.
he went awol for 2 weeks, then went back. he got an other than honerable discharge.
he has never comitted a crime in his whole life. now 70 yrs old. but cant buy a gun.
i think this is wrong. it wasnt in time of war. they should give him a break. what say?

He can have the status of his discharge changed. The law is for dishonorable discharge, if medical discharge is not for mental one can still purchase and possess firearms.
 

bcr229

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2008
Messages
60
Location
Inwood, West Virginia, USA
Like CPAs and banks being creatures of the IRS, ALL FFL gun dealers are first and foremost contract employees (unpaid unless they are CIs) of the BATFE.
As an FFL I take exception to that statement. ATF doesn't get to just walk through our records except for the annual compliance inspection, which is mandated by law. Otherwise the LE agencies that want to see our records need a warrant.
 

lysander6

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2009
Messages
74
Location
AZ
As an FFL I take exception to that statement. ATF doesn't get to just walk through our records except for the annual compliance inspection, which is mandated by law. Otherwise the LE agencies that want to see our records need a warrant.

In essence, your claim is that all your record-keeping and compliance with the Federal government agency for a de facto and de jure firearms registry has none of the aforementioned qualities?

You can refuse access to your records to any LE you wish?

You will comply with any inspection requirement they have because the very existence of your business is the pleasure of the government.

They can make you do anything to stay in business so matter how ludicrous like the long gun registry in the SW: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...tfs-emergency-long-gun-registry-back-in-play/

Bad laws were meant to be broken.

I stand by my recommendation to never do business with an FFL dealer.
 

brutus1776

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Messages
71
Location
, ,
I agree.
Absent a special order firearm, one that is unattainable in the private sale market or if your state forbids private sales, I see no compelling reason to use an FFL. If one values their liberty and/or privacy, that is.
 

Metaneomorph

New member
Joined
Jan 21, 2013
Messages
1
Location
US
Clarification

From what I see you made a plea deal that actually means you plead guilty to a felony conviction. That conviction was set aside after you completed the terms of your probation, BUT it is still a conviction. You should get an attorney and get it expunged if you can show you have changed your ways. But it still is a conviction but will not show on records, and you could get in trouble for not divulging it on state and federal forms.

Depending on your current state you may be able to purchase cap and ball revolvers without any check and may be legal for you to own. I am not so sure about OCing though. You probably would still get arrested if challenged by a LEO, then it would be up to the court to decide if you had the right to bear arms with a felony conviction.

Check your state laws.

I Just wanted to clarify the law here.

When one enters a deferred prosecution where the charges are to be "dismissed" (with or without prejudice) -- there is NO, ZERO "Conviction".

When someone does a Deferred prosecution, ie: A drug court for example. The charge and case(s) are placed on administrative docket to be Adjudicated on the time and date stated when one is accepted into the "Deferred Prosecution". This means in laymans terms the charge is placed on HOLD for however long the period is the individual has to go through and if said individual complies with the terms that are clearly stated in the acceptance of the Deferment -- they will end up with a DISMISSAL of the charge.

In these cases , again, there is no conviction. You are not entered as guilty, or not guilty. The matter is dropped/dismissed entirely. Therefore a person is not only not a felon they do not have a felonious charge on their record.

I know legal terms can be misleading or hard to understand but the biggest benefit of these types of generally extremely difficult and lengthy deferred programs is to give non-violent offenders (generally first time offenders) an opportunity NOT to screw up their liberties, rights, and become "Felons". They get an opportunity through hard work, ALOT of the courts running their lives for a year or longer to eventually upon 'graduation' of said program to be just as they were prior to acquiring the charge. A free person,.. not as if they served a sentence and were on parole, but the charges dismissed.

People who take a deal and plea guilty and do NOT go to jail or prison but are placed on probation are an entirely different matter. In these cases the prosecution was NOT deferred it was adjudicated then and the guilty plea taken and judged upon as guilty of the crime, then they were placed on probation as their sentence. These people are "felons".

This applies in all states -- A deferred prosecution that results in dismissal of the charge(s) = no lost rights, including the right to bear arms, which specifically allows the purchase of firearms. A background check may show the arrest,.. but will note the charges were dropped.

This would be equal to a person with a felony charge going to a trial, and being found not guilty by the jury -- The background check would still show the arrest and the not guilty verdict. Sometimes these things are worded in the database as Charge: AD-HOC.

In some cases, the individual DOES plea guilty and is sentenced to X years in prison -- however the matter is still placed on deferment and if the individual completes the program successfully this sentence is removed and charges , again, dropped. Resulting in no conviction.

There cannot be a conviction AND a dismissal of charges of a felonious nature.

I'm glad you had the opportunity to retain your rights, and absolve yourself of these charges. It is/was the right thing to do.

Any violent act, even remotely violent (ie: Assault/battery) or more serious drug offenses like intent to distribute will not qualify, and the background check would fail due to such charges.

Though again, any deferred charge that is ultimately 'dismissed' never was indicted or convicted. It is permanently (if dismissed WITH prejudice) eradicated and unable to be tried or brought up again in the judicial system.

Take care,
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
I would think that there is legally a difference between a deferred prosecution that never results in a conviction and a conviction that is set aside after some agreed-upon steps are taken.

I would think that the former is not incompatible with answering "NO" to "Have you ever been convicted...?" The latter should result in a "YES" answer. However, you should be able to avoid trouble for answering "NO" if that is answering the question to the best of your knowledge and ability. So, maybe this person should not be asking, should leave himself confused, and admit that confusion should the issue of a "NO" (that should have been a "YES") be raised.

Remember, the point of these questions on a 4473 is to shortstop the NICS if any of the questions are answered in a fashion that would prohibit the FFL from transferring the firearm. If he answers "NO," the FFL proceeds with the NICS check, and the FBI finds a conviction on his record, NICS will simply respond with a "DENY." I doubt they will come looking for him to try to assert that he did not answer the question truthfully to the best of his knowledge and ability. I am sure that they can. I just don't know of it ever happening.

IANAL.
 

beebobby

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2008
Messages
847
Location
, ,
Just go to a gun show and buy a gun in the parking lot or along the back wall in the building. It is your constitutional right.
 

MSG Laigaie

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
3,239
Location
Philipsburg, Montana
You won't know until you try. Answer the questionaire truthfully. The worst that they can do is say no and you won't be able to buy a gun. Right now, you're asking questions and worrying about it, and... you're not buying a gun.

It says "dismissed" on your form. Go with that. You will probably be delayed, let it delay. Go back in five days and pick up your weapon. You are worried over small things. It will work or it will not. If it does not, no change. If it does work, SUCCESS you will be Armed.

Metaneomorph, Welcome to OCDO, first post I see. Good one.
 

REALteach4u

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
428
Location
Spfld, Mo.
Eamus,

Unlike the thoughts of some others in this thread, your intent to be willing to fill out a Form 4473 says something about your character. The obvious concern exists as one poster mentioned in regards to what happens the next time you get ticked and that's where I'm on the same page as others.

First, contact a lawyer. If the charges were dismissed you will want to consult a lawyer BEFORE filling out a Form 4473. ABSOLUTELY DO NOT use classified ads for a private purchase if there is ANY chance you might get your Form 4473 denied. In doing so you're committing a pretty big crime. Talk to a lawyer and get some clarification on it, involve the BATFE and the FBI if so needed. Get it done right so you are protected through and through.

DO NOT risk filling out a Form 4473 only to have it denied, not until you've been able to talk to a lawyer and have things fully cleared up. It could get you in really big doo-doo with law enforcement and can easily prompt a visit from the FBI. I've been in-store a few times when I've heard that conversation of "denied" status followed by a call or visit from local FBI agents.

I know, a lawyer won't be cheap though it's your best option to protect yourself. You absolutely cannot rely on your FBI file being accurate. Some agencies do not report to the FBI on criminal incidents and some don't report updates. I had a customer recently that had court docs in hand and the NICS people said "denied", he wound up jumping through the appeal hoops and it took 6 months to get it all cleared up so he could lawfully purchase. His lawyer told him not to waste his time trying to sue for the inaccurate records resulting in a denial because they offer an appeal process, even though it's a clear 2A violation.
 
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davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
Howdy Pardner!
So my natural question is; what happens the next time you get "pissed off" and "Can't let it go" when you have a handgun at the ready?

I don't mean to bust your chops, but that isn't what I'd like to see for somebody hoping to buy a gun.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

You have joined the other side .... his charges were dismissed .... why they were is irrelevant and the facts related to the cases are irrelevant since a dismissal was the outcome.

I understand your concern but some level of restraint and discipline should have been present prior to the post.

Do I think that a felony of a computer variety should make someone illegible to own a gun ? No.
 

markand

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2006
Messages
512
Location
VA
Based on the info you provided, you've NOT been convicted of any crime. Background check might get delayed, but if no convictions, you should be fine. Talk to an attorney about getting this expunged.
 

Varmint

Newbie
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
Messages
1
Location
SW USA
Don't Worry About it

The Pre-Prosecution Probation program was put in place when all those dope smokin' hippies from the sixties grew up, made money, and didn't want some felony drug conviction screwing up the lives they had built.
Remember...many "minor" drug infractions which are misdemeanors now, were FELONIES then!.

Basically, it is in place for the normally "law abiding" person who made a mistake and is unlikely to do it again.
When the program was first put in place it allowed many good people to clear their name...and their record.
Since its inception, the law has been tweaked so that basically, everyone gets one....if they qualify.

If a young man in his twenties flips out and does something wrong in which nobody was injured and he shows no juvenile record...any lawyer worth his salt will ask for Pre-Prosecution Probation from the DA.
In some cases...the DA will approve...especially if he injured party agrees.

It's a ONE TIME deal.
Once accepting this plea, it will never be offered to you again.

It's basically like Spiderman says...."everybody gets one".
 
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markand

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2006
Messages
512
Location
VA
Welcome to the site, Varmint! Well, you've opened a thread that's been dormant for a little over 2 years. Not sure whatever happened to the OP, Eamus Catuli, as he hasn't posted anything since July of 2012. I'm kind of curious as to whether he was able to buy that gun at the gun store or not.
 

Maverick9

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
1,404
Location
Mid-atlantic
I carry a 1858 when in GFSZ and cartridge firearms the remainder of carry. I have complete trust in all of my black powder firearms. Keep in mind not to spend too much money on fancy cap and ball for carry. If a incident arises and a person uses the firearm in self defense it will most likely be seized not cleaned and a piece of junk within a week.

Like this:?

132907.jpg

We met a man with two like that and he was loading and shooting black powder at the range, I think 2 years ago. I have no memory of it but he let me shoot them (I didn't ask, we just shared bench).

Pretty darn cool. You use a smokeless powder? Or do you buy the ammo?

IMO, the best solution for these gentlemen who post here is to find a 2A friendly lawyer. I would NOT want to go 'under the table' or 'around the corner', except in once circumstance and that would be to have a firearm for HD only. But I'm not knowledgeable like the old-timers here. :)
 

OldCurlyWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2010
Messages
907
Location
Oklahoma
i have a cousine who when he was 18, just didnt like the army and was homesick.
he went awol for 2 weeks, then went back. he got an other than honerable discharge.
he has never comitted a crime in his whole life. now 70 yrs old. but cant buy a gun.
i think this is wrong. it wasnt in time of war. they should give him a break. what say?

Other than Honorable, includes a General Discharge, which means you got in trouble, but not bad enough for a Dishonorable. With a General there is no loss of rights or of VA benefits.

Sounds like he got a Dishonorable.
 
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