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IHOP Sierra Vista no weapons policy

GWbiker

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Did I miss something, or is this a thread about an IHOP being posted? If you read my "link to a 4 year old post from Delaware" , post #72 provides an explaination for my post. Unless the Arizona IHOPs are a different corp than the rest of the nation I think it would still apply.

I believe you did miss something. It's not necessary for you to explain "your post", as that I-HOP in Sierra Vista is no longer posted "no guns".

WE took care of that.
 

Sonora Rebel

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IHOP on Ina and I-10 near the railroad track in Marana has been OK with OC for as long as I can remember. Prob'ly the SV manager is the real problem... and since the signs down... she's prob'ly gone (back to New Jersey or someplace).
 

carracer

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Went to the local IHOP in Sierra Vista with Friends recently and noticed a "no weapons" sign in the window. Is this a policy of all IHOP establishments? Anyone know?

Went back today and the sign was gone.

I questioned management and he said the no weapons policy was in full effect.

With the sign not being posted any longer doesn't this create an issue for those wanting to OC in this establishment,who may not be aware of the policy.

What are the normal guidelines as far as posting a no weapons policy. Does the establishment have to clearly post the policy in plain view by law,or is it at the discretion of the establishment whether or not to clearly post this policy?


Ah, yes, ..."the sign was gone." I missed that when reading the part ahead of it that asks: "Is this a policy of all IHOP establishments?".
 

Super Saiyan

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From what I've been able to muster online, apparently IHOP does not have an official policy on firearms, but their locations have been instructed by Corporate to simply follow local laws. If you ever visit a location and they make an issue out of it, I think it'd be best to share your knowledge of their corporate directives, and if that does not suffice, then tell them you will contact corporate yourself and file a formal complaint and then leave. Wouldn't hurt to also let them know that you do not support businesses that do not support the Constitution. Just my two cents....
 

Tibbar

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Open carry

Open carry is the issue, concealed carry all you want. IHOP, Applebees, most chains like this are a large collection of franchisees. IHOP actually only owns a very few restaurants outright, so the choice is up to each franchisee. This is true of nearly all chains. Keep it out of site and no one will ever have an issue. Be inconsiderate of others and wear it out in the open and pretty good chance you'll be asked to leave your weapon locked up in your car. Don't need a sign. Pretty much every restaurant menu contains the words "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone". Once asked to leave, if you do not immediately comply you are violating trespass laws and can be arrested. Not up to you to argue, try to change anyone's minds, tell them what they must do in way of signage, you have no rights on someone else's property. Do as asked, or don't and leave, those are your options. No one is asking for your opinion. You want a vote, invest your own money and open your own place. You have no right to dictate what someone else has to tolerate in their own home or place of business. Again concealed carry is the way to go, open carry and you're just being difficult for no reason and hurting someone's business. You have no right to do that.
 

We-the-People

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Open carry is the issue, concealed carry all you want. IHOP, Applebees, most chains like this are a large collection of franchisees. IHOP actually only owns a very few restaurants outright, so the choice is up to each franchisee. This is true of nearly all chains. Keep it out of site and no one will ever have an issue. Be inconsiderate of others and wear it out in the open and pretty good chance you'll be asked to leave your weapon locked up in your car. Don't need a sign. Pretty much every restaurant menu contains the words "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone". Once asked to leave, if you do not immediately comply you are violating trespass laws and can be arrested. Not up to you to argue, try to change anyone's minds, tell them what they must do in way of signage, you have no rights on someone else's property. Do as asked, or don't and leave, those are your options. No one is asking for your opinion. You want a vote, invest your own money and open your own place. You have no right to dictate what someone else has to tolerate in their own home or place of business. Again concealed carry is the way to go, open carry and you're just being difficult for no reason and hurting someone's business. You have no right to do that.

Considering that this entire website is dedicated to OPEN CARRY, I don't think the attitude that it is "inconsiderate of others and wear it out in the open" is going to fly. We pretty much don't give a flying _______ other than to make sure we identify businesses that are not open carry friendly so that all of us can avoid them.

The "we reserve the right....." crap you spouted is funny. It's not required to have that on the menu, all they have to do is say to leave. Guess what.....RARELY HAPPENS.

Most businesses are a lot more accepting of open carry than a three post wonder might realize.

Welcome to OCDO, prepare to be educated.


ADDED ON EDIT: FYI, this post was dead for over 2 years until you came along with your opinions.
 
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FreeInAZ

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Open carry is the issue, concealed carry all you want. IHOP, Applebees, most chains like this are a large collection of franchisees. IHOP actually only owns a very few restaurants outright, so the choice is up to each franchisee. This is true of nearly all chains. Keep it out of site and no one will ever have an issue. Be inconsiderate of others and wear it out in the open and pretty good chance you'll be asked to leave your weapon locked up in your car. Don't need a sign. Pretty much every restaurant menu contains the words "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone". Once asked to leave, if you do not immediately comply you are violating trespass laws and can be arrested. Not up to you to argue, try to change anyone's minds, tell them what they must do in way of signage, you have no rights on someone else's property. Do as asked, or don't and leave, those are your options. No one is asking for your opinion. You want a vote, invest your own money and open your own place. You have no right to dictate what someone else has to tolerate in their own home or place of business. Again concealed carry is the way to go, open carry and you're just being difficult for no reason and hurting someone's business. You have no right to do that.

Just as no one was asking for yours - this said, your post contains many FALSEHOODS for AZ carriers both CC & OC! Please go back to reading your soldier of fortune magazines and leave OCDO to those who promote LAWFUL carry. In AZ, signs have force of law. Willfully disobeying them can land someone in trouble fast! :banghead:

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/13/03102.htm&Title=13&DocType=ARS
 
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MAC702

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Tibbar,

I completely agree that a business has the right to lose my business. But your attitude needs some work if you think that telling me to just conceal it isn't hurting someone. Uh, it's hurting me.

Also, you seem not to want to acknowledge that there are plenty of business that have no problem with OC.

For that latter statement, I gave you a lot of benefit of the doubt in the Georgia forum. But now you CLEARLY are in the wrong if you are going to start this way in the Arizona threads.
 
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We-the-People

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tibbar,

i completely agree that a business has the right to lose my business. But your attitude needs some work if you think that telling me to just conceal it isn't hurting someone. Uh, it's hurting me.

Also, you seem not to want to acknowledge that there are plenty of business that have no problem with oc.

For that latter statement, i gave you a lot of benefit of the doubt in the georgia forum. But now you clearly are in the wrong if you are going to start this way in the arizona threads.

^^^^^^^^
ditto
 

The Trickster

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B] In AZ, signs have force of law[/B]. Willfully disobeying them can land someone in trouble fast!

I do not believe that signs on private property have the force of law behind them unless they are correctly posted at locations which serve alcohol for on-site consumption (ARS 4-229). Signs posted on public property also have force of law (MVD, court buildings, etc. as per ARS 13-3102). I have never heard of anyone getting charged or even arrested for ignoring a sign on private property. The only way I could see this happening would be if they are told to leave and fail to do so, law enforcement shows up and tells them to leave and threatens to charge them with trespassing if they refuse, and they actually refuse. Has anyone ever experienced anything to the contrary?
 

HPmatt

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My first trip to AZ in the 80s- stopped at a Circle K and the guy talking on the pay phone had a 14" long Bowie knife on his belt....welcome to the West - not much changed in a 100 years...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

azcdlfred

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I do not believe that signs on private property have the force of law behind them unless they are correctly posted at locations which serve alcohol for on-site consumption (ARS 4-229). Signs posted on public property also have force of law (MVD, court buildings, etc. as per ARS 13-3102). I have never heard of anyone getting charged or even arrested for ignoring a sign on private property. The only way I could see this happening would be if they are told to leave and fail to do so, law enforcement shows up and tells them to leave and threatens to charge them with trespassing if they refuse, and they actually refuse. Has anyone ever experienced anything to the contrary?
Private property signs do not have to be correct but do have force of law. However it's trespassing issue, not a "weapons misconduct" violation. If a business asks you to leave, via any kind of sign or verbally, and you refuse you can be arrested for trespassing.

Your attitude, the business owner's mood and the cop's mood determine how severe things turn out. Opening a door completely covered by a non-guns sign while carrying an AR-15 slung over your shoulder, then giving the business owner lip about your rights, will probably get you arrested. Walking by a barely visible sign and politely leaving when asked will probably have a different outcome.

It is my understanding that the usual process is that the cops are called and the cop then "trespasses" (asks you to leave) you. If you refuse, you get arrested.

Fred
 

FreeInAZ

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Private property signs do not have to be correct but do have force of law. However it's trespassing issue, not a "weapons misconduct" violation. If a business asks you to leave, via any kind of sign or verbally, and you refuse you can be arrested for trespassing.

Your attitude, the business owner's mood and the cop's mood determine how severe things turn out. Opening a door completely covered by a non-guns sign while carrying an AR-15 slung over your shoulder, then giving the business owner lip about your rights, will probably get you arrested. Walking by a barely visible sign and politely leaving when asked will probably have a different outcome.

It is my understanding that the usual process is that the cops are called and the cop then "trespasses" (asks you to leave) you. If you refuse, you get arrested.

Fred

Quoted to emphasize the current law. Like it or not, it's what we (AZ) have for now. Don't like it, join AzCDL and help get the laws changed in AZ!
http://www.azcdl.org/html/membership.html
 

The Trickster

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Private property signs do not have to be correct but do have force of law. However it's trespassing issue, not a "weapons misconduct" violation. If a business asks you to leave, via any kind of sign or verbally, and you refuse you can be arrested for trespassing.

Your attitude, the business owner's mood and the cop's mood determine how severe things turn out. Opening a door completely covered by a non-guns sign while carrying an AR-15 slung over your shoulder, then giving the business owner lip about your rights, will probably get you arrested. Walking by a barely visible sign and politely leaving when asked will probably have a different outcome.

It is my understanding that the usual process is that the cops are called and the cop then "trespasses" (asks you to leave) you. If you refuse, you get arrested.

Fred

Quoted to emphasize the current law. Like it or not, it's what we (AZ) have for now. Don't like it, join AzCDL and help get the laws changed in AZ!
http://www.azcdl.org/html/membership.html

Like I said, I'm not aware of anyone ever being charged or even arrested for ignoring gun buster signs posted on private property. Fred is correct that it boils down to a trespassing issue and not a misconduct involving weapons charge, but even then I have witnessed law enforcement tell business owners that they will only enforce trespassing laws for them if they are willing to press charges (loitering). With that in mind, I suppose a responding cop who really wants to make an arrest could articulate that the sign served as notice, but I doubt it'd hold up in court. Most of these places have their signs posted in obscure locations and/or they are so small that they are easily missed, intentionally or not. Just my two cents.
 
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azcdlfred

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If I recall, last year a bill was signed into law allowing cops to "trespass" someone on private property with or without the property owner's knowledge or consent. The objective was to make an easy arrest for illegal aliens they catch on someone's property when the owner might not be present.

I can see that law being applied to any person by any cop on any private property they are on.

I can't remember the bill number but I'm pretty sure it passed. Feel free to correct me.

Fred
 

The Trickster

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If I recall, last year a bill was signed into law allowing cops to "trespass" someone on private property with or without the property owner's knowledge or consent. The objective was to make an easy arrest for illegal aliens they catch on someone's property when the owner might not be present.

I can see that law being applied to any person by any cop on any private property they are on.

I can't remember the bill number but I'm pretty sure it passed. Feel free to correct me.

Fred

When in doubt, there's always the all-encompassing disorderly conduct statue (13-2904) which, to the layman, basically translates to a person being eligible for arrest for doing virtually anything at anytime. ;)
 

FreeInAZ

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If I recall, last year a bill was signed into law allowing cops to "trespass" someone on private property with or without the property owner's knowledge or consent. The objective was to make an easy arrest for illegal aliens they catch on someone's property when the owner might not be present.

I can see that law being applied to any person by any cop on any private property they are on.

I can't remember the bill number but I'm pretty sure it passed. Feel free to correct me.

Fred

When in doubt, there's always the all-encompassing disorderly conduct statue (13-2904) which, to the layman, basically translates to a person being eligible for arrest for doing virtually anything at anytime. ;)

So for those in the cheap seat here at the OC stadium - when in AZ - do not carry into places that are posted. It could get you in trouble. Remember police (some), should win literary awards for creative report writing. If, a officers is so inclined, you will be charged most likely with multiple "spaghetti" charges. Some of today's officers take the approach of: throw as much as possible at the wall & see what sticks in court! The average lawyer today charges a flat fee of $1,500 dollars per misdemeanor charge plus expenses. Just something to mull over. Choose your battles wisely.
 

The Trickster

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So for those in the cheap seat here at the OC stadium - when in AZ - do not carry into places that are posted. It could get you in trouble. Remember police (some), should win literary awards for creative report writing. If, a officers is so inclined, you will be charged most likely with multiple "spaghetti" charges. Some of today's officers take the approach of: throw as much as possible at the wall & see what sticks in court! The average lawyer today charges a flat fee of $1,500 dollars per misdemeanor charge plus expenses. Just something to mull over. Choose your battles wisely.

Indeed. I do my best to avoid places that "prohibit" guns. With few exceptions (emergency room when my wife was in a car accident is a good example), I simply take my business elsewhere; however, I will admit that I do ignore any/all posted signs and simply CC during those rare situations.
 

OC Freedom

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So for those in the cheap seat here at the OC stadium - when in AZ - do not carry into places that are posted. It could get you in trouble. Remember police (some), should win literary awards for creative report writing. If, a officers is so inclined, you will be charged most likely with multiple "spaghetti" charges. Some of today's officers take the approach of: throw as much as possible at the wall & see what sticks in court! The average lawyer today charges a flat fee of $1,500 dollars per misdemeanor charge plus expenses. Just something to mull over. Choose your battles wisely.

I would like to visit Arizona, but until this "signs have force of law" BS is in effect, I will stick to states where signs have no force of law like in my home state of Idaho. That paragraph above is explanation enough to keep me out of Arizona. An Open Carrier should not have to worry about playing russian roulette patronizing a business while minding your own.
 
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