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I think I am going to resume UOCing.

AyatollahGondola

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First of all, it is not the act of OC during driving that was at the core of my argument. It is the stated reason for doing so. I tlhink if you are going to OC on your bike or anywhere for that matter because it's your right to do so, for self defense or to comply with state law in the exercise of your 2nd amendment rights as a US Citizen,that is fine. But I believe that stating your reason for opencarrying as being a deterrent for traffic collisions is being somewhat boisterous in this state. Maybe anywhere. I further think it may place you at a disadvantage in defending yourself should you be charged with any crime related to your open carrying while driving your bike, mainly because your posts may be dredged up as evidence of your intent. There's a perception out there already when it comes to open carrying. I don't believe it will serve any good purpose to play into the hands of detractors, especially those who may be prosecutors. After all, it is not me that is going to accuse you of being a wacko motorist who shoots because they got cut off. I'm an open carry proponent and won't be on your jury.
 

ConsideringOC

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But that person in my eyes and years of motorcycle riding,just committed attempted murder. Now students.. what is a good deterent against people who commit murder? Yes thats right students.. GUNS.
This is the line that makes it all bad. You are setting your mindset that a near collision is justification to use that weapon. Open carry all you want. Im not against the movement in general... just some of the people involved who don't have a full grasp on laws relating to lethal force. 20+ years of riding for me. Yes there have been some close calls. I have shouted a few bad words and obsene gestures... But I have learned to look for the warning signs and take counter manuevers. Never have I felt a gun was needed. I choose to ride knowing that it is a very dangerous sport/hobby. I ride upwards of 25k miles a year. There are 2 types of M/C riders. Those that have been down, and those that have yet to go down.
 

N6ATF

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ConsideringOC wrote:
But that person in my eyes and years of motorcycle riding,just committed attempted murder. Now students.. what is a good deterent against people who commit murder? Yes thats right students.. GUNS.
This is the line that makes it all bad. You are setting your mindset that a near collision is justification to use that weapon.
The only possible use of the weapon is holstered, as a deterrent against intentional homicidal collisions (when they look right at you and try to hit you or force you to collide with other objects/the ground).
 

N6ATF

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ConsideringOC wrote:
then dont ride
One could say the same thing against ever stepping out of your front door with a holstered gun. Why arbitrarily restrict your sphere of crime deterrence and create periods of time where nobody gives a crap whether they can murder you or not?

That's exactly what the countless infringements on the 2A were created for! So us proles can eat caca and die!
 

CA_Libertarian

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ConsideringOC wrote:
...You are setting your mindset that a near collision is justification to use that weapon...
I think you're misinterpreting what he's saying, as I did earlier. I think with a little analysis, you'll find that he in no way indicates it would be reasonable to use the weapon in self defense against a negligent driver. He didn't say he thinks it's OK to brandish his firearm if someone follows too closely; nor did he say it would be justifiable homocide if he were to eliminate the threat of another vehicle colliding with him. (He would probably be well out of harms way - or already collided with - before he would even be able to draw & load his firearm.)

It's pretty clear the weapon is for deterrent effect only - no different than if I carry in the hopes I don't get "attention" from thugs when I walk on "their" side of town. If anybody here has a problem with that, then I'd say you're the nut job.

Of course, there is always a rare chance that someone will decide they dislike your driving enough to attempt to assault/murder you with their vehicle. Never know when some psychopath is going to pull his illegally carried firearm on you at the next stop light.
 

Decoligny

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N6ATF wrote:
CA_Libertarian wrote:
(Which I now realize should have been obvious... not being a motorcycle rider myself, I just realized how hard it would be to load a handgun while riding a motorcycle.)
LOL, I was imagining this... you'd need a self-balancing unit to go hands-free and load.

Motorcycles are by design "self-balancing". The front and read wheels, when traveling at highway speed, act as gyroscopes. They keep the motorcycle upright and moving in a straight line.

The hard part would be if you needed to load, and avoid an agressive driver. Can't maneuver easily with no hands. Can only do slow sweeping turns by leaning.
 

Decoligny

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ConsideringOC wrote:
But that person in my eyes and years of motorcycle riding,just committed attempted murder. Now students.. what is a good deterent against people who commit murder? Yes thats right students.. GUNS.
This is the line that makes it all bad. You are setting your mindset that a near collision is justification to use that weapon. Open carry all you want. Im not against the movement in general... just some of the people involved who don't have a full grasp on laws relating to lethal force. 20+ years of riding for me. Yes there have been some close calls. I have shouted a few bad words and obsene gestures... But I have learned to look for the warning signs and take counter manuevers. Never have I felt a gun was needed. I choose to ride knowing that it is a very dangerous sport/hobby. I ride upwards of 25k miles a year. There are 2 types of M/C riders. Those that have been down, and those that have yet to go down.
Missed a key word there didn't ya.
No mention of USE of the the gun against anyone.

Slow down and actually read what is being said in the post, not what you want to think is being said in the post.
 

Flyer22

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Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
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Decoligny wrote:
ConsideringOC wrote:
But that person in my eyes and years of motorcycle riding,just committed attempted murder. Now students.. what is a good deterent against people who commit murder? Yes thats right students.. GUNS.
This is the line that makes it all bad. You are setting your mindset that a near collision is justification to use that weapon. Open carry all you want. Im not against the movement in general... just some of the people involved who don't have a full grasp on laws relating to lethal force. 20+ years of riding for me. Yes there have been some close calls. I have shouted a few bad words and obsene gestures... But I have learned to look for the warning signs and take counter manuevers. Never have I felt a gun was needed. I choose to ride knowing that it is a very dangerous sport/hobby. I ride upwards of 25k miles a year. There are 2 types of M/C riders. Those that have been down, and those that have yet to go down.
Missed a key word there didn't ya.
No mention of USE of the the gun against anyone.

Slow down and actually read what is being said in the post, not what you want to think is being said in the post.

:D

I'd also like to know just how he thinks an unloaded gun is going to be used against somebody. A spear or boomerang would be more useful.
 

N6ATF

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Decoligny wrote:
N6ATF wrote:
CA_Libertarian wrote:
(Which I now realize should have been obvious... not being a motorcycle rider myself, I just realized how hard it would be to load a handgun while riding a motorcycle.)
LOL, I was imagining this... you'd need a self-balancing unit to go hands-free and load.

Motorcycles are by design "self-balancing". The front and read wheels, when traveling at highway speed, act as gyroscopes. They keep the motorcycle upright and moving in a straight line.

The hard part would be if you needed to load, and avoid an agressive driver. Can't maneuver easily with no hands. Can only do slow sweeping turns by leaning.
As long as the rider is roughly symmetrical, on a straight track, with no crap in the road? I can see holding both arms out, but if you go fiddling around with a gun even under the best conditions, don't you risk crashing?
 

Old Timer

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Let me add my opinion, for what its worth. I have been carrying a gun for a living for about 45 years. I have been riding motorcycles for about 50 years. Obviously I have sufficient experience doing both to have learned a few things.

Firstly, many drivers of cars/trucks violate the right of way of motorcycles every day. I am of the opinion this violation is not deliberate. Most drivers are in "car/truck" mode and when a motorcycle comes along it does not make it past the "car/truck" filter in their brain. They, literally, don't see you! I can't count the number of times I have worked a traffic accident with a car/truck verses a motorcycle and the car/truck drivers says, "I never even saw him!" The brain is a wonderful machine, but it can play some very nasty tricks on us.

Secondly, I used to ride my motorcycle to work. I was in uniform, but wearing my leather motorcycle jacket instead of my uniform jacket. However, my gun belt and sidearm were clearly visible. It is amazing what a difference it made when the other motorists, who couldn't seem to see my motorcycle, could always see my sidearm, and would generally give me a very wide berth! The only exception was a CHP Traffic Officer who pulled me over, then, when he got closer and realized I was in uniform, under my motorcycle jacket, just waved me on my way without even contacting me. :)

When I ride on weekends I CCW, and without the visible sidearm, I find myself, again, having to ride defensively to keep cage drivers, most of whom are asleep at the wheel, from running over me! Both my motorcycles have air horns installed on them! A good blast from an air horn wakes up a lot of sleeping drivers! :D

 

Decoligny

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N6ATF wrote:
Decoligny wrote:
N6ATF wrote:
CA_Libertarian wrote:
(Which I now realize should have been obvious... not being a motorcycle rider myself, I just realized how hard it would be to load a handgun while riding a motorcycle.)
LOL, I was imagining this... you'd need a self-balancing unit to go hands-free and load.

Motorcycles are by design "self-balancing". The front and read wheels, when traveling at highway speed, act as gyroscopes. They keep the motorcycle upright and moving in a straight line.

The hard part would be if you needed to load, and avoid an agressive driver. Can't maneuver easily with no hands. Can only do slow sweeping turns by leaning.
As long as the rider is roughly symmetrical, on a straight track, with no crap in the road? I can see holding both arms out, but if you go fiddling around with a gun even under the best conditions, don't you risk crashing?

I for one would never attempt this, but as a strictly mental exercise Ican see thatit could be done.

As long as you were grabbing the gun from the holster and the mag from a mag pouch on the opposite side balance would be maintained, then you would bring both hands forward to meet in front to insert mag and rack the slide. Then one hand goes back to the handlebar and the other has the gun in battery and ready to use.

Ifcarrying the magazines on the same side as the gun, I would probably draw a mag and insert it into the gun while the gun was still in the holster, even if this means losing an empty mag on the highway. This way you limit the two hand involvement to only racking the slide.

Of course this would require a nice straight piece of road, no potholes, no swerving cars, and big brass cajones.

I have seen R. Lee Ermy (Gunny)draw and fire a loaded gun from a moving motorcycle and hit his target, but to load it on the move, not a likely scenario.
 

Streetbikerr6

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AyatollahGondola wrote:
First of all, it is not the act of OC during driving that was at the core of my argument. It is the stated reason for doing so. I tlhink if you are going to OC on your bike or anywhere for that matter because it's your right to do so, for self defense or to comply with state law in the exercise of your 2nd amendment rights as a US Citizen,that is fine. But I believe that stating your reason for opencarrying as being a deterrent for traffic collisions is being somewhat boisterous in this state. Maybe anywhere. I further think it may place you at a disadvantage in defending yourself should you be charged with any crime related to your open carrying while driving your bike, mainly because your posts may be dredged up as evidence of your intent. There's a perception out there already when it comes to open carrying. I don't believe it will serve any good purpose to play into the hands of detractors, especially those who may be prosecutors. After all, it is not me that is going to accuse you of being a wacko motorist who shoots because they got cut off. I'm an open carry proponent and won't be on your jury.

YOU are the one that should be worried your posts would be used. YOU are the one thinking having a gun means you have to USE that gun or else it is worthless.

Do you even realize what you are telling all of us? You are saying, the only reason to wear a gun is to use it. You are totally over looking the fact that a gun is a deterrent. You are telling me that if I get cut off, it is a FACT that I must pull out my gun and shoot them. THAT'S ILLEGAL!! The only reason to carry that gun is 1. a deterrent to anybody thinking about running me over with their car and causing death, and 2. use it if anyone shoots at me with a gun. THATS IT! Nothing else. Any other possible situation is that of your own misconstrued thoughts.

You might as well tell us all to cut off our penis since it could be used in a future rape.
 

Streetbikerr6

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and by the way. If I want to carry because I want to make that person think twice before murdering me with their car, that's my right. If you have some irrational fear about guns, thats your problem, but guess what, my gun is doing no harm on my hip while I'm riding my motorcycle, it is only protecting me from some psycho who wants to murder a motorcyclist. Trust me, there are plenty of them out their, I just feel bad for the next guy he chooses after passing me up after seeing my gun.

If some gay guy's tight t-shirt weirds you out because you think you will catch his gay or be touched by him, then get the hell out of America. If some Muslim's turbanfreaks you out because youthink he has a bombthen get the hell out of America. If my gun on my hipfreaks you out because you think I'm going to use it on you when you cut me offthen get the hell out of America. None of those irrational things are going to happen, you just may think they are.
 

demnogis

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After it stops raining I'm going to find a secluded road and try to "load" an empty mag at speed.

I expect to lose 1 mag to the road.

Just to try and see if I can do it. My bike has a tendency to lean to the left even when I'm "balanced".
 

AyatollahGondola

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Streetbikerr6 wrote:

You might as well tell us all to cut off our penis since it could be used in a future rape.
If some gay guy's tight t-shirt weirds you out because you think you will catch his gay or be touched by him, then get the hell out of America.
I have no interest in discussing your sexual issues. When the conversation heads that way, I'm out.
 

Streetbikerr6

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AyatollahGondola wrote:
Streetbikerr6 wrote:

You might as well tell us all to cut off our penis since it could be used in a future rape.
If some gay guy's tight t-shirt weirds you out because you think you will catch his gay or be touched by him, then get the hell out of America.
I have no interest in discussing your sexual issues. When the conversation heads that way, I'm out.
Yah you mean your out once your idiotic point has been ridiculed by every OC'er in this community. Good riddance. Going away party is at my house, your not invited.
 

thefirststrike

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demnogis wrote:
I know, I always advise newcomers not to solo UOC. I think I'm going to have to stop echoing that thought because I am feeling that solo UOC for myself is a good idea (again).

My ride in to work has become more and more hazardous. I enjoyed the days before where I could make a 5-10-15-100-mile ride without anyone so much as tailgating me. People would not cut me off on the freeway, people would not try to "share lanes" with me, while I was already splitting them. CHPs would give a nod or a wave instead of just flying by at 95mph.

I'm not sure what it is, but while riding/driving people seem to think they can do whatever they want, whenever they want and the rules of the road don't apply to them because "what are you gonna do about it?". This results in disastrous consequences for others on the road (like myself). Luckily nothing bad has happened yet.

So, I'm dusting off my drop-leg holster, putting new batteries in my voice recorder, stocking the storage compartment on my bike with OC pamphlets and loading 2 mags. I'll UOC while riding, and LUCC while driving. Also, my job is as a driver now. It will be nice to know for those times when I have to drive through the slummiest of slums to pick up clients that I'm not entirely useless.


Pardon my ignorance...what is UOC and LUCC?

Just a couple terms I haven't heard before.

Dave R
 

Captain_Awesome

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unloaded open carry and locked unloaded concealed carry.

Also, I agree that if it helps keep bad drivers away, of course you should UOC while riding. You don't need to use a firearm, or even truly be willing to use a firearm for its presence to have a deterrent effect.

As a hypothetical example, take a mini mart owner who open carries. He'd probably be doing it to prevent a holdup at gunpoint, but that's not relevant. Along comes a criminal who plans to steal a bag of cheetos. He walks into the store, notices the gun, and walks out, probably to another quickie mart to get his cheetos.

Assuming he doesn't realize what's going on before it happens - is the shop owner really gonna shoot this guy for taking a bag of cheetos? He may draw his gun, as a last ditch attempt to show he means business, but I'd think he's not very likely to actually shoot.
 

N6ATF

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demnogis wrote:
After it stops raining I'm going to find a secluded road and try to "load" an empty mag at speed.

I expect to lose 1 mag to the road.

Just to try and see if I can do it. My bike has a tendency to lean to the left even when I'm "balanced".
Part of me thinks some MythBusters work is in order to see how much of a missile the dropped empty mag is. Whether it'll bounce into a windshield, low on the front bumper, or just skip along the ground immediately after first impact.
 
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