I OPEN CARRY

[trophyhunter300]

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My Brother lives up in Washington where he is a tacoma police officer he loves it up there he lives in Graham with his wife and two kids at least your goverment reconizies their residents as people here we are just numbers and have to play there way or they make your life misrealable i like the .45 i own the essex 1911 .45 great weapon

 

[WheelGun]

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Huh? What does this have to do with New York?

 

[trophyhunter300]

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Nothing to you. was speaking to other member who lives in wa. so ,whts the problem? you were not part of our original conversation....

 

[WheelGun]

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Oh, I forgot.

'Washington' and 'New York' are spelled almost the same and are right next to each other on the map.

My bad.

 

[Danny-L]

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NYS permit holders that are transferring the old paper permits to the new plastic,within St. Lawrence co. will notice that if they turned in the paper permit with no restrictions the new one will include restrictions.

 

[redlegagent]

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Danny-L wrote:

NYS permit holders that are transferring the old paper permits to the new plastic,within St. Lawrence co. will notice that if they turned in the paper permit with no restrictions the new one will include restrictions.

Are you being notified by the judge of the new restrictions? I don't believe they can unilaterally do this. If the conditions of the permit are changed, the issuing authority - i.e. judge, must notify you why this occured. Your original permit application, which the judge signs, must reflect the restriction or it's not legal.If the current judge has instructed the sheriff dept. to do this, then request a copy of the policy and publish it in the local paper warning permit holders.

 

[Danny-L]

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No warning given,its the only type he will reissue,talked to the county clerk about appealing it ,she said people would be better off to wait until a new judge was elected.Hope its soon.

 

[redlegagent]

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There's your problem right there. They are not "issuing" the permit, merely exchanging it. When I transitioned over from paper to plastic, my county office signed the new permit with the original issuing judge's signature - as it should be - even though he retired years ago. The current judge is not the issuing authority except for new permit applications he approves. The signature on the permit must match the one on the approved application. I think your people are doing it wrong.

 

[Danny-L]

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It was the same judge

 

[John_NY]

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I switched my old paper permit to plastic here in St; Law. County. Really needed it. It was all tattered from over 30 years of being in my wallet. There are no restrictions on my new permit. My son did the same and there are no restrictions on his permit either.
I have carried open off and on for over 30 years and was asked once by a sherriff if the gun was registered. I said yes sir. End of discussion with him. I have never had a problem in over 30 years and I carry all the time. Most times comcealed but quite often open.


John

 

[redlegagent]

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Do not confuse the decision of local law enforcement to not enforce the law as making it legal. The law is quite clear - a NYS pistol permit is a concealed carry permit only. There is no provision in the law to authorize open carry. Your permit was not issued by the current judge so restrictions were not applied when you changed over to plastic. If the current judge has also been your issuing authority, you would be in the same boat as Danny-L.

 

[John_NY]

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I don't recall saying anywhere that it is legal. But after 55 years in the county and 32 years carrying a handgun "open" I would have to say it is not a big concern. Maybe if you look like some sort of nutcase it might be a different story. You just have to use your head. Say if I go to Wally world then the handgun is concealed. If I go in the local mom and pop store to grab a pepsi carrying open is not a big deal.

John

 

[redlegagent]

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I understand what you're saying. What I am saying is every county is different. Your local law enforcement chooses to ignore the law and allow people to carry open - as long as you have a permit. If you happened to go to another county where enforcement is stricter, you'd have a problem. What I would suggest you do is not push the envelope. As was previously pointed out, it seems the current judge for your county maintains a pro-restriction policy and will not issue unrestricted permits. In the event you were cited for violating the terms of your permit (open carry), it would make you open to lose your permit as your judge clearly wants to limit them. As he is the current authority, he has the right to recind your permit at any time for any reason.

 

[devildoc5]

sorry kind of a dead post but perhaps the OP was referring to the post 9/11 permits that were issued by DHS for a little while?

The ones that allowed people to take a class in (Virginia FBI HQ I believe) and could then cc on board airplanes?

The TSA has since stated the will not accept these permits but there are still a few of them around and valid and it could be "considered" a "federal permit"....

 

[homerfire232]

Whatever, it's your pistols you risk having confiscated. ALL THE PERMITS SAY "LICENSED TO CARRY" - helloooo it's a carry permit. Mine says the same thing - doink! You must carry your firearms unconcealed because youare RESTRICTED- common sense here - however that is not the same as a license to carry open. I could care less what your hillbilly sherriff says - it doesn't apply outside his jurisdiction. I'm just telling you what NYS law says. This thread is a waste of time.

Please tell me Mr. Attorney with 20 years experiance, what is the differance between Unconcealed and open carry???? The sherriff is THE supreme law enforcment officer in the county over even state and feds. If he says, openly carry it, then openly carry it. Besides, what kind of brainiac would make a law saying its OK to openly carry when you are going hunting and back, but not when you are in town? I tend to disagree with you sir, regarding your position on open carry in NY. A license to carry hangun, with NO restrictions allows you to CARRY. Possesion of a concealed weapon was illegal in NY forever, until they began issuing permits ALLOWING conceal carry. Nowhere in the law does it say you HAVE to conceal the weapon. The old rule never went away. Nowhere does it say it is illegal to open carry. Sure, NY can revoke your permit at any time, but they must have JUST CAUSE. By "upsetting" a few anti-gun folks when you open carry is not enough of a reason, their comfort doesnt supercede my 2nd amendment right. Keep it holstered, don't play around with it, and you will be fine. You may run into a cop who only sees the laws at face value like this guy, but SHOW ME THE LAW that says I can't open carry as well as conceal carry.

 

[homerfire232]

I don't mean to be an ass...

In the event you were cited for violating the terms of your permit (open carry), it would make you open to lose your permit as your judge clearly wants to limit them. As he is the current authority, he has the right to recind your permit at any time for any reason.

Violating the terms of your permit, what penal code is that and is that a felony or misdemenor? And the judge can't wake up one day and decide to recind you permit, he has to have just cause, and show it in writing. And of course you can appeal the decision. If you are minding your own business, shopping while open carrying, not causing alarm, and a cop sees your weapon and gives you the business, and you cooperate fully. He can still be an ass and write the issuing agent and hope your permit is revoked. But they need to show just cause.

 

[redlegagent]

In the event you were cited for violating the terms of your permit (open carry), it would make you open to lose your permit as your judge clearly wants to limit them. As he is the current authority, he has the right to recind your permit at any time for any reason.

Violating the terms of your permit, what penal code is that and is that a felony or misdemenor? And the judge can't wake up one day and decide to recind you permit, he has to have just cause, and show it in writing. And of course you can appeal the decision. If you are minding your own business, shopping while open carrying, not causing alarm, and a cop sees your weapon and gives you the business, and you cooperate fully. He can still be an ass and write the issuing agent and hope your permit is revoked. But they need to show just cause.

This is from NYS Penal Law 400.00 -

11. License: revocation and suspension. Except for a license issued
pursuant to section 400.01 of this article, a license may be revoked and
cancelled at any time in the city of New York, and in the counties of
Nassau and Suffolk, by the licensing officer, and elsewhere than in the
city of New York by any judge or justice of a court of record; "

The exception applies to LEO's. In the application for a permit, they must have "just cause" to deny it. Once the permit has been issued - it can be recinded at any time for any reason - it says so right on the permit. There is nothing about appeals. Judges have wide latitude concerning permits. If you have a valid permit, you would not be charged under NYS Penal Law 265 which covers illegal possession of firearms, but 400.00, which covers pistol permits, states in the law that carry restrictions can be applied by the issuing authority - i.e. judge. If you violate those restrictions - you can lose your permit. FYI - sherriffs UPHOLD the laws, they don't make them.

 

[homerfire232]

This is from NYS Penal Law 400.00 -

11. License: revocation and suspension. Except for a license issued
pursuant to section 400.01 of this article, a license may be revoked and
cancelled at any time in the city of New York, and in the counties of
Nassau and Suffolk, by the licensing officer, and elsewhere than in the
city of New York by any judge or justice of a court of record; "

The exception applies to LEO's. In the application for a permit, they must have "just cause" to deny it. Once the permit has been issued - it can be recinded at any time for any reason - it says so right on the permit. There is nothing about appeals. Judges have wide latitude concerning permits. If you have a valid permit, you would not be charged under NYS Penal Law 265 which covers illegal possession of firearms, but 400.00, which covers pistol permits, states in the law that carry restrictions can be applied by the issuing authority - i.e. judge. If you violate those restrictions - you can lose your permit. FYI - sherriffs UPHOLD the laws, they don't make them.

My license says "is revocable at any time" not any reason. My license also says NO RESTRICTIONS, so how can I violate restrictions, when none exist?

 

[ronmanci]

Please tell me Mr. Attorney with 20 years experiance, what is the differance between Unconcealed and open carry???? The sherriff is THE supreme law enforcment officer in the county over even state and feds. If he says, openly carry it, then openly carry it. Besides, what kind of brainiac would make a law saying its OK to openly carry when you are going hunting and back, but not when you are in town? I tend to disagree with you sir, regarding your position on open carry in NY. A license to carry hangun, with NO restrictions allows you to CARRY. Possesion of a concealed weapon was illegal in NY forever, until they began issuing permits ALLOWING conceal carry. Nowhere in the law does it say you HAVE to conceal the weapon. The old rule never went away. Nowhere does it say it is illegal to open carry. Sure, NY can revoke your permit at any time, but they must have JUST CAUSE. By "upsetting" a few anti-gun folks when you open carry is not enough of a reason, their comfort doesnt supercede my 2nd amendment right. Keep it holstered, don't play around with it, and you will be fine. You may run into a cop who only sees the laws at face value like this guy, but SHOW ME THE LAW that says I can't open carry as well as conceal carry.

Well Mr Attorney of 20 years, here is the NYS law books that state "concealed":

CARRYING-- HANDGUNS

The license to possess a handgun is a license to carry unless restricted, but almost all licenses are restricted. If there are no restrictions the licensee may carry the handgun concealed on or about his person, loaded or unloaded.

Handgun licenses issued elsewhere in New York State are not valid in New York City. New York City licenses are valid throughout New York State. However, a New York State license to carry or possess will be valid in New York City in the absence of a New York City license provided that the handguns are transported by the licensee in a locked container and the trip through New York City is continuous and uninterrupted.

A license to possess a handgun in one's household or place of business or to possess a target handgun does not authorize the licensee to carry a handgun on or about his person except in the very limited circumstances outlined above (under POSSESSION). Similarly, a target handgun license does not grant the holder the right to keep a loaded handgun in his home or place of business. To do so one must have a license to have and possess either in one's dwelling or one's place of business.

A "target" license authorizes the holder to transport his unloaded handgun to and from a shooting range or hunting field in a locked container.

An "on premises" license permits the holder to possess a handgun in his home or place of business. The holder may obtain 2 authorizations a year to transport his handgun(s); unloaded and in a locked container, to and from an authorized shooting range.

To obtain a license to carry a concealed handgun the applicant is required to show that "proper cause" exists for the issuance of the license. The decision to issue or deny this license is within the discretion of the commissioner and his decision will only be overturned by a court if it can be shown that he abused his discretion.

A license may not be transferred. The license holder must have the license in his possession while carrying a handgun, and each person licensed to possess a handgun on his premises is required to have a license on such premises. On demand of any peace officer a license must be exhibited.

Administrative Code sec.10-131, sec.10301, ET.SEQ.

 

[emsjeep]

NYS Penal Law 400.00 - 2. Types of licenses. A license for gunsmith or dealer in firearms
shall be issued to engage in such business. A license for a pistol or
revolver, other than an assault weapon or a disguised gun, shall be
issued to (a) have and possess in his dwelling by a householder; (b)
have and possess in his place of business by a merchant or storekeeper;
(c) have and carry concealed while so employed by a messenger employed
by a banking institution or express company; (d) have and carry
concealed by a justice of the supreme court in the first or second
judicial departments, or by a judge of the New York city civil court or
the New York city criminal court; (e) have and carry concealed while so
employed by a regular employee of an institution of the state, or of any
county, city, town or village, under control of a commissioner of
correction of the city or any warden, superintendent or head keeper of
any state prison, penitentiary, workhouse, county jail or other
institution for the detention of persons convicted or accused of crime
or held as witnesses in criminal cases, provided that application is
made therefor by such commissioner, warden, superintendent or head
keeper; (f) have and carry concealed, without regard to employment or
place of possession, by any person when proper cause exists for the
issuance thereof; and (g) have, possess, collect and carry antique
pistols which are defined as follows: (i) any single shot, muzzle
loading pistol with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar
type of ignition system manufactured in or before l898, which is not
designed for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition;
and (ii) any replica of any pistol described in clause (i) hereof if
such replica--


These are the types of pistol permits in NYS. Your permit falls under section "f". Your permit however has been restricted. I would suggest you familiarized yourself with the law. As there is only one type of permit - concealed with various restriction/types - you'll notice that no where does it say open carry in the descriptions. You have a restricted concealed carry permit - period. Only law enforcement and special permit holders may open carry in NYS. You may only carry your firearm within the realm of your restrictions - hunting/target only - just like it says. I have an unrestricted concealed carry permit and have been licensed for 20 years so I kinda think I know a little about this.

You have really butchered this whole discussion.

400.00(2)(f) says, "have and carry concealed..."
I would like someone to explain to me why this language was necessary if not to confer a right synonymous with "open carry." Explain to me, please, how I might "have" a pistol, in the sense that I am actively exercising dominion and control over it, in a manner that is neither open or concealed? Concealed carry is addressed overtly by the statute, so what is the only other option?


The legislative discussion behind the licensing of concealed carry is based on the argument that only the level headed and responsible members of society should be allowed to engage in concealed carry because if a man does not know that his adversary is armed, he may believe that he can provoke him with impunity whereas if only open carry were allowed, a man could be aware of what he was getting himself into. Additionally, I know of at least one court in New York that has explicitly acknowledged that open carry it a right conveyed by license in this state.

Administrative restrictions are allowed by an interpretation of the 400.00's "proper cause" clause, however, they are not, in any jurisdiction, enforceable under the penalties prescribed by 400.00(15). The most you will see for a violation of your administrative restrictions is a revocation or suspension of your license.

If you still don't believe me, I would like to see one case in which someone was convicted under 400.00(15) for open carrying...the fact is, the act in and of itself is not illegal, though you may be charged with a variety of other things for scaring the crap out of the sheeple including harassment or DC or whatever is in vogue at the moment, but open carry is not a crime.


See here: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...d-relocating&p=1389493&viewfull=1#post1389493