Horrible First Encounter Open Carrying.

[eye95]

I'll also second the advice to NOT put your hand on your weapon. I guarantee that is the quickest way to get yourself killed. And I can almost take bets that most officers can draw and fire faster than you. We do it thousands of times, whereas most common citizen does not. That may not be true in your case though.

Consult another attorney.

saiga12boy:

And to put the two points together in a way that will hopefully drive the message home: The officer having capped the helloutta your center mass can be found to be justified. You have no idea of the totality of the circumstances surrounding the officer's reason for approaching you. You may assume that it is because he knows you have done nothing wrong and wishes to roust you, or that he is just ignorant of the law. But, if it is because of a 911 call saying that someone fitting your description took out an openly carried firearm, waved it about, and threatened folks, the officer will surely shoot your ass the instant you touch your firearm--and he will be justified in doing so!

In the threads posted later on the subject, many here would see that as proof that all LEOs are evil, and I would be getting into an argument that he was just doing what he had to do under the circumstances, and that YOU acted incredibly stupidly, volunteering to have your genes removed from the pool, slightly decreasing the chance of such foolishness by a new someone in the future.

 

[END_THE_FED]

That is good because you were recording, but if the officers did not acknowledge your statement that they were forcing you, they might yet claim that they were not. Make them take an undeniable overt act.


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<o>

Another thing the OP has going for him since this was recorded is the LEO saying "If you don't go to the back, I will drag you to the back" With that phrase on audio it will be nearly impossible for the LEO to claim the move was consensual.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Sorry you had to go through this.

When someone claims you are not being detained, there is no RAS.

When someone claims you are not being detained but you are not free to go, this has moved to false arrest. (My opinion)

I too was threatened with more harassment if I continued to OC, I continued to OC. Find a better lawyer, qualified immunity does not apply here especially since they acknowledge OC is legal.

Have you asked for the reports yet? Who wants to bet they will be full of misleading information and untruths.

 

[McX]

damn! just plain damn! your not....your not.....but you still get rousted. causing a-larm! on private property no less, then tell you to shut up when you try to speak the law the truth. i guess liberals can get jobs as cops afterall, and use it to promote their liberal agenda on a law abiding public!

kinda reminds me of a dinner i had some years back in Culvers in Madison. or maybe a clip of the classic Cheech & Ching bit:

sign the papers old man.

i cant.

why?

Because you have broken both my hands.


.......................sue the bastards.


added; listening to part 2 now; got the AK-47 bit, a classic in ignorance. heard the complaint about loud music- put a volume control on your gun! i hate to stereo type- though they sure as hell stereo typed you, but did these cops marry their sisters?!

 

[eye95]

Some cops are cops because they feel it is a way to serve. Your post seems to imply that cops generally enter the field ONLY for the power. I don't believe that for one second, nor do I believe that we should generalize from what some officers do.


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<o>

 

[Anonymouse]

Some cops are cops because they feel it is a way to serve. Your post seems to imply that cops generally enter the field ONLY for the power. I don't believe that for one second, nor do I believe that we should generalize from what some officers do.


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<o>

I know a few cops that only became cops because it's a family tradition...


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[9026543]

I know a few cops that only became cops because it's a family tradition...


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Then there are lots of cops like this one.

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/story/2...s-puppy-with-world-champion-lineage-exclusive

 

[Anonymouse]

Then there are lots of cops like this one.

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/story/2...s-puppy-with-world-champion-lineage-exclusive

Holy crap lolol... I was thinking it was a cop shooting someone. But a puppy?

That's evil...

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[eye95]

I know a few cops that only became cops because it's a family tradition...


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Yep. There're all kinds of reasons folks become cops, as opposed to the one reason put forth by the bigoted assertion from another poster earlier. Cops are all individuals, like we carriers are. If we want the cops to think of and treat us like individuals, then we ought to show them that very courtesy!


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<o>

 

[KYGlockster]

It's just in the nature of the beast. if they REALLY just wanted to "serve the public', they'd be firemen. they are cops because they are power-seekers.

This is an asinine quote. Sure, there are plenty of officers that enter because they were treated poorly when younger and want revenge or just want to have "power" over people, but that is not the case for ALL officers.

You can read my posts on this forum and understand where I stand towards rights in general. I am becoming an officer so that I can help others and protect their rights. I will inform people of their rights every chance I get, and I will NOT deprive anyone of them. I want to help people that are in need or that just want help. The people that do not want help and want to continue to act like little gang bangers will not be helped -- they will be arrested.

I find it absurd when officers' believe they need to arrest everyone they come into contact with that has violated the law. Very few officers use their power of discretion these days, and it is sickening.

To say that every officer in this Country is nothing more than a power-seeking pig is false!

 

[sudden valley gunner]

There are no such thing as a "few bad apples".

Unless this is just "another isolated incident".

 

[tattedupboy]

What a nightmare this had to have been. Ordinarily I dislike lawyers, but in this case I hope you find one who'll sue the pants off of those deputies.

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[Beantownfan321]

It's just in the nature of the beast. if they REALLY just wanted to "serve the public', they'd be firemen. they are cops because they are power-seekers.

That is categorically false. Sorry that you feel that way, and it may be your opinion, but it's not true. Is it true about some officers? Sure. ALL? Nope.

 

[Beantownfan321]

There are no such thing as a "few bad apples".

Unless this is just "another isolated incident".

So, all gun owners are scumbag gang bangers who just want to kill people?

See what happens when you make broad assumptions without discretion?

 

[eye95]

So, all gun owners are scumbag gang bangers who just want to kill people?

See what happens when you make broad assumptions without discretion?

It amazes me the extent many here will generalize about LEOs but cry foul when LEOs generalize about carriers.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

So, all gun owners are scumbag gang bangers who just want to kill people?

See what happens when you make broad assumptions without discretion?

Nope not making a broad assumption about individuals or apples I am making a broad statement about the barrel or the system.

When the system protects those rotten apples, the system is bad. A rotten apple spoils the whole bunch. I won't ever trust a cop, and I know there are many good ones. But when the courts say you can lie to me in your investigation-I must assume all cops are lying to me, when the system protects the bad cops and won't remove them -what is our assumptions to be , we can't know on the street whether or not we are getting a good one.
The framers seemed to realize this about gov. agents and why we have things like our 4th and 5th amendments.


To me the comparison of generalizing LEO public employees against private citizens are strikingly different. Especially when I didn't use the term "All cops", I am specifically talking about the often repeated line we hear over and over again about it just "being a few apples" or "isolated incident".

 

[sudden valley gunner]

It amazes me the extent many here will generalize about LEOs but cry foul when LEOs generalize about carriers.

For someone who constantly cries foul about people misrepresenting what you say......maybe you need to take some of your own advice.

 

[Beantownfan321]

Nope not making a broad assumption about individuals or apples I am making a broad statement about the barrel or the system.

When the system protects those rotten apples, the system is bad. A rotten apple spoils the whole bunch. I won't ever trust a cop, and I know there are many good ones. But when the courts say you can lie to me in your investigation-I must assume all cops are lying to me, when the system protects the bad cops and won't remove them -what is our assumptions to be , we can't know on the street whether or not we are getting a good one.
The framers seemed to realize this about gov. agents and why we have things like our 4th and 5th amendments.


To me the comparison of generalizing LEO public employees against private citizens are strikingly different. Especially when I didn't use the term "All cops", I am specifically talking about the often repeated line we hear over and over again about it just "being a few apples" or "isolated incident".

You can attempt to justify it any way you want sir, but the fact remains: You distrust all cops, and think all cops are bad. That's fine. You haven't met all cops, and that's obvious. You unfortunately have this warped view, just the same as some people who think that all people who have a CWP or OC are criminals and just want to shoot someone, or are some kind of vigilante.

I wish you could come spend a week with me and some of my coworkers. I really do. I think we'd change your mind, even if just a little.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

You can attempt to justify it any way you want sir, but the fact remains: You distrust all cops, and think all cops are bad. That's fine. You haven't met all cops, and that's obvious. You unfortunately have this warped view, just the same as some people who think that all people who have a CWP or OC are criminals and just want to shoot someone, or are some kind of vigilante.

I wish you could come spend a week with me and some of my coworkers. I really do. I think we'd change your mind, even if just a little.

Nope know some cops who are good. Like I said earlier I can separate my viewpoint of the system against individual police officers.

If you can counter my arguments please do so. Id like to hear an opposing logical point of view other than the tired response we hear over and over by officers who try to equate private individuals to a government agency.

Most gun owners don't have state and fellow gun owners support when they are criminals, or just want to shoot someone, or are some kind of vigilante. Can the same be said for LEA's?

By the way, I don't see vigilantism in it's original meaning as a pejorative. What did people do before they installed Police agencies?

 

[ixtow]

Your post seems to imply that cops generally enter the field ---- for the power.

I still haven't met one who doesn't openly admit to it... I get my information from their own mouths, not my own admitted seething rage over the fact that even one of them is still breathing...

I admit that I hate them. But this is only cemented by the fact that they openly brag about being corrupt and there's nothing anyone can do about it. I haven't met an exception yet...

It's kinda like how we called Open Carriers "Unicorns" in the early days... So rare it's fictional. You never see anyone else doing it... So it is with these "good cops" so often spoken of... But I've never found one... Unicops.

I also admit that Good cops are generally invisible. Not because they don't exist. But, because, if they do exist, they're minding their own damn business and not doing dirty things to people that we end up hearing about... When nothing happens, there is nothing to talk about. Much the same way all the guns that don't get used for crime have no statistics compiled on them... Nothing happened.

Ask one "What do you think about harassing people who open carry?" I dare you to find one cop who doesn't support harassing open carriers. Record it. Post it. I will print this out and eat it.