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Henderson handgun registration.

CowboyKen

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I do. That should make a good headline. Local state-certified firearms law expert arrested for violating illegal local firearms law...

In your dreams.

There is no way that you will be able to get yourself arrested for such a silly thing let alone have it get to a trial of any kind not to mention an appellate court of record. They would cut you loose so fast your would still be wondering how that happened a week later.

Then they can continue to intimidate the rubes, which is all they really want to be able to do. JMHO.

Ken
 

usmcmustang

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Las Vegas, NV & Southern Utah
In your dreams.

There is no way that you will be able to get yourself arrested for such a silly thing let alone have it get to a trial of any kind not to mention an appellate court of record. They would cut you loose so fast your would still be wondering how that happened a week later.

Then they can continue to intimidate the rubes, which is all they really want to be able to do. JMHO.

Ken

Control and intimidate is the nature of their "business." You are spot on.
 

The Big Guy

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Follow up to meeting with Henderson City Attorney.

This is a copy of the follow up to the meeting I had with the City Attorney of Henderson.

In my research I also discovered that the Las Vegas, NLV and Henderson registration codes only refer "citizens" of those respective incorporated cities. If I'm correct, and I believe I am, though (I'M NOT A LAWYER), if you are not required to register for instance as a resident of Boulder City, you would not be illegal to possess an unregistered handgun anyplace in the county but in the unincorporated areas. Of course nothing stops the police from acting under color of law. I believe you would easily beat the rap but you might play hell getting your firearm back. It might take a federal law suit.

In addition it looks as if the NLV registration law is invalid as the previous ordinance 7.23.100 was repealed and replace with ordinance 9.36.100 in 2008. This puts it well past preemption and therefore an illegal ordinance.

TBG




City Attorney Josh Reid
Assistant City Attorney Michael OH.


Josh and Michael,

I would again like to thank you for meeting with Randy Mackie and I. It is always good to put a face to those you communicate with.

Regarding the above mentioned code, Michael is correct that SB 92 automatically assumed that the city code was modified to conform to
state law after the deadline. It dealt with the language stating that there is a 72 hour grace period for residents to register handguns and
a 60 day period for new residents to register their concealable handguns. Be aware however that the legislature amended preemption
in 2011 under NRS 268.418 and again ordered the city to change the language of HMC 8.98.030 which was not done. This time the language
from SB 92 stating “Any ordinance or regulation that does not comply with the applicable provision by January 1, 2008, shall be deemed to conform with
that provision by operation of law” was not carried forward.


I would like to restate that HMC 8.98.030 is not valid in that there is not, and has not been, a system in place to register concealable firearms
with the Chief of Police as called out by this ordinance. County registration would not meet the requirement to register with the Chief of Police.
The fact that there is no mention in the Henderson City Charter, nor in city code to give city police the power to enforce county ordinances is
reason to believe that the county blue card registration is not enforceable within the incorporated city limits of Henderson in lieu of city
registration.

I believe to make this ordinance enforceable, at considerable cost, the Henderson Police Department would have to institute a system of local
registration whereby the contents of those records would be kept by the Chief of Police of the City of Henderson. In order for that to work all
citizens of Henderson would have to be properly notified that their county registration was not valid within the City of Henderson, only in the
unincorporated areas of Clark County. They would be required to register with the Henderson Chief of Police. Under county law registration in
Henderson would be accepted within the unincorporated areas of Clark County.

If I understood the conversation, there was talk of modifying HMC 8.98.030 to allow for county registration in place of registering with the
Henderson Chief of Police. That would not work in that any substantive changes would be improper under state preemption. You can’t
just change the meaning of the ordinance.

The other solution, and I think the best solution, would be to do away with HMC 8.98.03. According to HPD, you stated that blue card registration
is done as a courtesy for the citizens of Henderson as they are required to possess only registered handguns within the unincorporated areas of
Clark County. The option would be given to the citizen of Henderson whether to register or not with the county depending on if they intended to
take their handgun into the unincorporated areas of Clark County. As long as these handguns remained in one of the incorporated cities of Clark
County, Henderson, Las Vegas, N. Las Vegas, Boulder City and Mesquite, and not brought into the unincorporated areas of the county, the citizen
would not be in violation of any law.

If the city wants to continue to offer blue card registration as a courtesy then let it truly be a courtesy by informing the citizens of Henderson that
there is no requirement to register a handgun within the city limits of Henderson. They can be informed that registration is only required in the
unincorporated areas of the county.

I look forward to your favorable response.

Regards
 

The Big Guy

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Waco, TX
Porposed changes to Henderson Muni Code

I received an email today from Michael Oh of the City Attorney's office. He notified me that they have a proposed change to HMC 8.98.030 (registration of firearms). He proceeded to say that I had been previously notified of this change which is not true. I was expecting their proposal in July. Instead of just sending me the document he made me go searching for it. It took a call to the City Clerks office to get a copy which I now have. Nothing has been changed per se but the following was added to 8.98.030 only: "In accordance with NRS 268.418, it is unlawful for any person with at least sixty days of residency in the city to own or possess within the incorporated area of the City, any pistol or other firearm capable of being concealed unless the same has been registered with the Sheriff of Clark County within 72 hours of such receipt of said pistol or firearm, whether obtained by purchase, gift or any other transfer."
The Code still requires one to register with the Chief of Police in both 8.98.030 and 8.98.040. To those familiar with the NRS, you can plainly see that the underlined was added to the statute by the City Attorney's Office and the bulk of the NRS was left out. Even given this they have no authority to substantially change the meaning of the Municipal Code per 268.418. In addition, the notification of this change came interestingly enough 2 days after the proposal was read at a regular city council meeting. Because I took the City Attorney at his word that I would be notified and that it would not happen until July, I missed this meeting. The proposal is set to be heard by a City Council sub group just before the regular Council meeting on July 2nd. It will then be heard at that regular meeting...TBG
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
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Messages
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Location
Nevada
Why do people get into government administration when they don't know how to read and apply words?
 

The Big Guy

Regular Member
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Messages
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Location
Waco, TX
Why do people get into government administration when they don't know how to read and apply words?
Because it is one job you can get into and there be no requirement for a minimum IQ level, and you can still excel...TBG
 

The Big Guy

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Messages
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Location
Waco, TX
Email to Mayor and Council

Below is the email (I sent) to oppose Henderson BILL NO. 2743, Amend Henderson Municipal Code Chapter 8.98

For all of those residents of Henderson I urge you to either send a letter or email, make phone calls, show up to the council meeting on
July 2nd, or at least use the following link to oppose this bill. (All these things would be much more better)

https://clients.comcate.com/newrequest.php?id=90&dept=907

Changing and getting rid of these illegal laws in Nevada's second largest city will be a big plus for all of us in Clark County and all of NV. For those of you outside Henderson, urge your firearms loving friends in Henderson to do the same.

Please forgive the formatting problems caused by cut and paste.

TBG



Mayor Hafen and Council Members

I am writing you to urge you to oppose Bill No. 2743 scheduled to be heard at the July 2nd council meeting.

My reasons for opposing this Bill are as follows.



HMC 8.98.010 Concealed weapons prohibited except by permission. Has been superseded by state preemption and should be removed.

HMC 8.98.020 Police officers exempted. Meets state preemption as written.

HMC 8.98.030 Concealable weapons to be registered. The proposed changes are in violation of State law, NRS 268.418. The wording contained in Bill no. 2743
with regard to NRS 268.418 is blatantly incorrect. The legislature reserves to itself the sole authority to regulate firearms except for the discharge
thereof. The reference to the Clark County Sheriff does not appear anywhere in the statute as shown below. This is an attempt to do an end around state law.

NRS 268.418  Limited authority to regulate firearms; restrictions concerning registration of firearms in city in county whose population is 700,000
or more.

1.  Except as otherwise provided by specific statute, the Legislature reserves for itself such rights and powers as are necessary to regulate
the transfer, sale, purchase, possession, ownership, transportation, registration and licensing of firearms and ammunition in Nevada, and
no city may infringe upon those rights and powers. As used in this subsection, “firearm” means any weapon from which a projectile is
discharged by means of an explosive, spring, gas, air or other force.

2.  The governing body of a city may proscribe by ordinance or regulation the unsafe discharge of firearms.

3.  If the governing body of a city in a county whose population is 700,000 or more has required by ordinance or regulation adopted before June
13, 1989, the registration of a firearm capable of being concealed, the governing body shall amend such an ordinance or regulation to require:

(a) A period of at least 60 days of residency in the city before registration of such a firearm is required.

(b) A period of at least 72 hours for the registration of a pistol by a resident of the city upon transfer of title to the pistol to the resident
by purchase, gift or any other transfer.

4.  Except as otherwise provided in subsection 1, as used in this section:

(a) “Firearm” means any device designed to be used as a weapon from which a projectile may be expelled through the barrel by the force of any
explosion or other form of combustion.

(b) “Firearm capable of being concealed” includes all firearms having a barrel less than 12 inches in length.

(c) “Pistol” means a firearm capable of being concealed that is intended to be aimed and fired with one hand.

(Added to NRS by 1989, 652; A 2007, 1289; 2011, 1159)

In an information request under NV law, the city has been unable to determine at what point the City of Henderson stopped registering under city ordinance
8.98.030 and began improperly substituting the county registration program.

8.98.030 plainly and clearly states that registration must be with the Henderson Chief of Police. Nowhere is the Henderson Police department given
authority or responsibility to enforce Clark County law under 8.98.030.

Under HMC 8.98.030 the Chief of Police has no authority to delegate registration responsibility to the county. As an incorporated city, county law does
not apply. A charge brought against an individual under HMC 8.98.030 because the citizen had not registered with the county is improper. In order to be
properly charged under 8.98.030 there would have to be a system in place to register with the Chief of Police as the code clearly states. There is no
system in place which allows citizens to comply with this code. Under an information request I have been advised by the City Attorney's office that
there have been 160 arrests from 2007 (state preemption) to date for violation of 8.98.03.

Clark County Code 12.04.200 prohibits possession of pistols or firearms capable of being carried concealed within the unincorporated area of Clark County
unless within 60 days it has been registered with the sheriff or with a police department of any of the incorporated cities of Clark County.

As can be seen from the above reference to County Code, the county cannot force citizens of incorporated cities to register with the county, hence the
mention of "a police department of any of the incorporated cities of Clark County". County registration only applies to the unincorporated areas of Clark
County.

It is my belief that the City Attorney's office, which is recommending the changes to HMC 8.98.030, obviously agrees this ordinance is invalid as
now enforced. Therefore they are improperly attempting to tie it to county law. This code is valid under preemption if it is enforced as is but under state preemption
it cannot be changed to alter the original meaning. For it to be properly enforced all citizens of Henderson, whether registered with Clark County or not,
would have to be notified that they are required to register with the Henderson Chief of Police and an expensive program be put in place to do just that.
County registration has shown that there has been no cost/benefit advantage to this ordinance on the county level as millions of firearms have been
registered over the past 60 years and only one or two cases can be pointed to where registration may have played any part in the solving of crimes.
This at a cost of millions of dollars.

HMC 8.98.040 Exchange of weapons to be registered. Has been superseded by state preemption and should be removed.

HMC 8.98.050 Concealable weapon defined.

This Municipal code should simply be removed and not amended as state law defines concealable firearms per 268.418 above. The city has no authority
under NRS 268.418 to regulate this area or amend this outdated code. It has been voided by state law so there is no reason to have it on the books. The
City police are already charged with the responsibility and authority to enforce state law per HMC 2.40.030 Policy of the city.

It appears to me that this Bill No. 2743 is also in violation of City Ordinance 2.40.030(A) Policy of the city, which states in part:

A. The proper operation of democratic government requires that public servants:

5. Shall uphold the Constitution of the United States, the Constitution of
Nevada and the Charter of the City of Henderson, and carry out
Impartially the laws of the United States, the State of Nevada and the
Henderson Municipal code, and thus foster respect for all government.

Judging by the proposed change in Municipal code City officials would be in violation of 2.40.030 as Bill No. 2743 ignores state law.

I request that this bill be returned to the City Attorney's office for the needed corrections.


Sincerely
 
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The Big Guy

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,966
Location
Waco, TX
Need Henderson resident.

The NVFAC is looking for a resident of Henderson to read a summary into the record at the next Henderson City Council meeting concerning
Bill 2743, registration. This is very important and your help would be greatly appreciated.

TBG
 

varminter22

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
927
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
Many thanks to TBG and all concerned in this battle.
GUN RIGHTS ALERT
from the
NEVADA FIREARMS COALITION


Monday, June 24th, 2013

ATTENTION HENDERSON RESIDENTS [and all Nevadans!]

ON JULY 2, 2013 THE HENDERSON CITY COUNCIL WILL BE DISCUSSING AND VOTING ON PROPOSED BILL NUMBER 2743. THIS BILL MODIFIES THE CURRENT CITY CODE CHAPTER 8.98 TO ALLOW THE CONTINUANCE OF CITY FIREARMS CODES THAT ARE NOT AUTHORIZED BY RECENT NEVADA STATE STATUTES AND CONTINUES THE HANDGUN REGISTRATION PROGRAM.
THIS IS YOUR OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE
USING THE LINK BELOW, PLEASE CONTACT YOUR CITY COUNCIL AND RESPECTFULLY REQUEST THAT THEY REPEAL THE HENDERSON CITY HANDGUN REGISTRATION PROGRAM. THIS PROGRAM ONLY EXISTS BECAUSE THE CITY COUNCIL VOTED TO HAVE THIS PROGRAM IN 1954. NOW THAT THEY ARE OPENING THE CODE TO MODIFICATION THEY MAY ALSO REPEAL THE PROGRAM.
THE NVFAC HAS FILED AN OFFICIAL LETTER REQUESTING THE TERMINATION OF THIS USELESS PROGRAM, BUT ONLY YOUR RESPECTFUL PHONE CALLS, EMAILS AND TESTIMONY AT THE COUNCIL MEETING WILL MAKE IT HAPPEN.
PLEASE CONTACT YOUR CITY COUNCIL IMMEDIATELY
REQUEST REPEAL OF HMC 8.98.030
AND OTHER PROVISIONS OF 8.98 WHICH ARE NOT IN COMPLIANCE WITH STATE LAW
USE THE LINK BELOW FOR EMAIL CONTACT https://clients.comcate.com/newrequest.php?id=90&dept=907
NOW IS THE TIME TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!!
PROTECT YOUR RIGHTS
5575 Simmons Street, Suite 1-176
North Las Vegas, NV 89031
www.nvfac.org | info@nvfac.org
 

The Big Guy

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Oct 20, 2009
Messages
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Location
Waco, TX
I love it. I only noted a few punctuation errors, but they did not detract from the effective point of the letter. It would be very cool to turn on a few lights in the minds of Henderson officials. We already know the county won't listen to reason, but when they are the only ones left, I think it will a lot easier for the State to step in.

Anyone know what happens in Mesquite? They have their own police, so I am assuming they are an incorporated city with their own laws.

Mesquite has no codes requiring registration and therefore they are not required to register. This despite the fact that a gun dealer in Mesquite told me Metro told them they HAD to register under blue card. He now knows he does not have to.

The catch 22 is that they can't remove those firearms from the city limits as they would then be in the unincorporated areas of Clark County and as such are subject to county law.

You are correct about the county. Yes, the idea is to surround them and make them scream. For instance, let's say we get Henderson, the second largest city in NV squared away. Then residents of the city of Henderson would only be guilty of a "crime" if they transported their unregistered firearm into the unincorporated area of the county. If that person was to go from Henderson into the city of Las Vegas with the same unregistered firearm they would be ok because the the city code of LV only describes "residents" of LV and therefore does not bind those residents of other ciies. NLV is the same as it binds "residents" to county law, not non residents. Wouldn't it be fun to watch METRO cops deal with that hodge podge?

TBG
 

The Big Guy

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,966
Location
Waco, TX
The NVFAC is looking for a resident of Henderson to read a summary into the record at the next Henderson City Council meeting concerning
Bill 2743, registration. This is very important and your help would be greatly appreciated.

TBG


This has been taken care of.

TBG
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
...The catch 22 is that they can't remove those firearms from the city limits as they would then be in the unincorporated areas of Clark County and as such are subject to county law...

This can't be right either.

The guns are not registered because they are in the county. The guns are registered because the PERSON is a county RESIDENT.

You can live in Nye County and work in Las Vegas. You do not need to register a gun even if you bring it to work with you everyday. Same with Boulder City residents.
 

The Big Guy

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Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,966
Location
Waco, TX
This can't be right either.

The guns are not registered because they are in the county. The guns are registered because the PERSON is a county RESIDENT.

You can live in Nye County and work in Las Vegas. You do not need to register a gun even if you bring it to work with you everyday. Same with Boulder City residents.

County law states that you must register your firearms if you are a citizen of Clark County, or you have your firearm within Clark County for more than 60 days, (per state mandate). However, they have no jurisdiction within the corporate city limits of the 5 Cities in Clark County. As people of Nye county are not citizens of Clark County they have no authority over them. Boulder City and Mesquite residents are citizens of Clark County and therefore the blue card registration can and will be enforced on them in the "unincorporated" areas of Clark County per county law. Mesquite, Boulder City and Henderson have no city code requiring you to obey county registration (though Henderson is trying to with Bill 2743). Las Vegas does. North Las Vegas does as well but it is not legal as that code was passed in 2008 long after preemption. The City code of both Las Vegas and North Las Vegas specifically states "citizens" of those cities must obey county blue card registration. For instance if you are a LV resident and you get stopped in LV and they run your firearm and find it is not registered, you would be charged under city code, not county ordinance. As a citizen of Boulder City is not a resident of Las Vegas, they would have no authority to charge them under city code, and as they are not in the unincorporated area of Clark County, they can't charge them with violation of county law either.

Henderson has made 160 arrests for violation of the city firearms registration code 8.98.030 since 2007 because these folks did not have a "blue card". This even though the ordinance does not mention county registration and plainly says you must register with the Henderson Chief of Police even though there is no means of doing so. You notice I said they were charged under city code, not county code. The Henderson Police have no authority to enforce county law. These arrests were improper and the lawyers for these people should be sued out of existence for malpractice. Another prime example of jurisdictions getting away with what they can, law be damned.

TBG
 
Last edited:

The Big Guy

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Messages
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Location
Waco, TX
Of the 160 arrests how many prosecutions and convictions were made on those arrests?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

160 arrests from 2007 to date.
5 cases charges were not flied.
49 cases the charges were dropped by the prosecutor.
4 cases resulted in an acquittal.
102 convicted or plead guilty. (some of these were multiple counts of 8.98.030 to the same person. One guy had 5 counts on this charge).

A.C.A. Oh told me, if memory serves, all of these were tied with other counts. No arrests for 8.98.030 only. (Stacking of charges)

TBG
 

loic

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2011
Messages
18
Location
Las Vegas
160 arrests from 2007 to date.
5 cases charges were not flied.
49 cases the charges were dropped by the prosecutor.
4 cases resulted in an acquittal.
102 convicted or plead guilty. (some of these were multiple counts of 8.98.030 to the same person. One guy had 5 counts on this charge).

A.C.A. Oh told me, if memory serves, all of these were tied with other counts. No arrests for 8.98.030 only. (Stacking of charges)

TBG

Does that mean that if a firearm was confiscated by henderson pd (never to be returned) and a fine issue on top of the confiscation because of not having a blue card could be reversed?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
 

The Big Guy

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Messages
1,966
Location
Waco, TX
Does that mean that if a firearm was confiscated by henderson pd (never to be returned) and a fine issue on top of the confiscation because of not having a blue card could be reversed?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

You would have to consult a lawyer on that one. If you plead guilty, I don't know if you would have any leg to stand on.

TBG
 
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