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Got Carded at WaWa

solus

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I betcha eye95 you still run background checks on those sales where the buyer has a valid state issued privilege carry card huh!
 

eye95

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Is this your policy? Or is it a business policy.
It is the policy of the business, due to several factors, not the least of which being that the person running the background check is supposed to have the ID in his hot little hands when answering some of the questions on the computerized NICS entry form.

There are several other checkpoints along the way where information on the IDs is double-checked.

We often give the IDs back for a spell while, for instance, the customer goes over to the other side of the store to buy cigarettes and beer. (We are a full service alcohol, tobacco, and firearms dealer.) However, our processing stops during such spells.

[on edit: Thank you for your thoughtful replies. Discussions with you are typically fruitful.]
 

OC for ME

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My pleasure. In the context of the OP situation at the WaWa I never handover my ID if carded...though it has been many years where I have experienced that compliment. Even in Missouri I do not hand over my ID to a cop, the statutes explicitly state that I am required to display, not to provide (or other synonym). Local cops don't like that I must say, if demanding my CC permit.

RSMo 571.121. Duty to carry and display permit, penalty for violation — director of revenue immunity from liability, when. — http://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=571.121&bid=29725&hl=
 

FreedomVA

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so this is the response i get from WaWa after i sent them an email of the complaint....



Thank you for responding. Yes, our cashiers are trained on how to identify if an ID is valid without having to scan it. We allow our cashiers to scan IDs and Licenses to make things easier for them to verify authenticity, but it is not mandatory that they be scanned.

Wawa follows the guidelines of the FDA. As stated in the FDA policy, every retailer must verify age by use of a picture ID. The FDA policy requires that we card anyone that appears to be under the age of 27. Because the age of someone is subjective, one cashier may think a customer looks over 27, while another cashier may think that same customer looks under 27. If there is any doubt, our cashiers should always card the customer.

I am going to share your feedback with the management team at the store for follow-up and coaching purposes. “Delighting Customers” is one of our core values and we strive to ensure our customers always have the best experience possible when shopping with us. The coaching being delivered to the store team will aim to do just that. Thank you for allowing us to do so.



If you have further specific questions regarding the carding policy, you can contact the FDA directly at the information provided below:
 

eye95

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I notice they never addressed what happened to the information as a result of the ID being scanned. I had hoped that their reply would have stated: “The scan only checked the birthdate and displayed the customer’s age. No information was stored or forwarded as a result of the scan.”
 

eye95

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The store’s reply seems to indicate that the ID can be verified without scanning. Letting the cashier know that a manager will be requested to perform that task would likely result in the cashier verifying without scanning.

I know that many of today’s youth have real trouble with basic arithmetic, like calculating one’s age from a birthdate, but I am sure that they don’t want their manager knowing of their deficiency.
 

color of law

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It is the policy of the business, due to several factors, not the least of which being that the person running the background check is supposed to have the ID in his hot little hands when answering some of the questions on the computerized NICS entry form.

There are several other checkpoints along the way where information on the IDs is double-checked.

We often give the IDs back for a spell while, for instance, the customer goes over to the other side of the store to buy cigarettes and beer. (We are a full service alcohol, tobacco, and firearms dealer.) However, our processing stops during such spells.

[on edit: Thank you for your thoughtful replies. Discussions with you are typically fruitful.]
Why would you need to hold the ID when that information is on the 4473?
 

eye95

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Why would you need to hold the ID when that information is on the 4473?
I am not going to go into every detail of our process (especially considering your propensity to nitpick just to be antagonistic). Suffice it to say that we are not the normal FFL. We are also the federal government. That presents interesting uniquenesses in how we must conduct business. There are federal and military regulations that add to our processes.

I mention that we hold the ID cards only to illustrate that a personal policy of never handing over ID cards could have an unintended consequence.
 

Ghost1958

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Kentucky
You can look at my DL. unless your a cop on a legitimate stop, u don't get to touch it. If that means no sale, dandy. I go to your competitor and buy there.
 

color of law

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I am not going to go into every detail of our process (especially considering your propensity to nitpick just to be antagonistic). Suffice it to say that we are not the normal FFL. We are also the federal government. That presents interesting uniquenesses in how we must conduct business. There are federal and military regulations that add to our processes.

I mention that we hold the ID cards only to illustrate that a personal policy of never handing over ID cards could have an unintended consequence.
FORUM RULES
(5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.
Please provide the federal statute that authorizes the regulation and when that regulation was published in the federal register.
Inquiring minds want to know.
 

eye95

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Thank you for proving—so quickly—the point I was making.

After a few months of civil discussion from you, I might just change my mind about you.
 

solus

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here nc
I am not going to go into every detail of our process (especially considering your propensity to nitpick just to be antagonistic). Suffice it to say that we are not the normal FFL. We are also the federal government. That presents interesting uniquenesses in how we must conduct business. There are federal and military regulations that add to our processes.

I mention that we hold the ID cards only to illustrate that a personal policy of never handing over ID cards could have an unintended consequence.

Actually Eye95, this here listing of A-Z gov agencies seems to not list AAFES anywhere...https://www.usa.gov/federal-agencies/b

So must be neet to be a civilian employee eye95...oh you aren't are you...NAF but but eye95 you stated it was a governmental enity?

Wait you have special ATF regs cuz your AAFES...should in clear text cite please
 

color of law

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Cite please.
Go back to my posting of the statute. The cashier would have to have some legal support for denying service when all the law requires proof of age. I believe the statute also allows for the obvious, you look ancient.
 

OC for ME

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I suspect that the cashier has the authority to deny the sale if a ID is not allowed to be scanned to verify authenticity.
Go back to my posting of the statute. The cashier would have to have some legal support for denying service when all the law requires proof of age. I believe the statute also allows for the obvious, you look ancient.
Your statute cite is not relevant to my point, see bold above. Thus the cashier would not be violating the statute you cite. In other words, all IDs are fakes until scanned to prove their authenticity. Within the confines of the capability of the scanning device to actually verify authenticity...that is. But, how would a dude wanting a pack of smokes know if corporate is lying to him about the scanning thing.
 

color of law

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Your statute cite is not relevant to my point, see bold above. Thus the cashier would not be violating the statute you cite. In other words, all IDs are fakes until scanned to prove their authenticity. Within the confines of the capability of the scanning device to actually verify authenticity...that is. But, how would a dude wanting a pack of smokes know if corporate is lying to him about the scanning thing.
Since we are talking about Virginia:
§ 59.1-443.3. Scanning information from driver's license or identification card; retention, sale, or dissemination of information.
A. No merchant may scan the machine-readable zone of a Department of Motor Vehicles-issued identification card or driver's license, except for the following purposes:
  1. To verify authenticity of the identification card or driver's license or to verify the identity of the individual if the individual pays for goods or services with a method other than cash, returns an item, or requests a refund or an exchange;
  2. To verify the individual's age when providing age-restricted goods or services to the individual if there is a reasonable doubt of the individual having reached 18 years of age or older;
  3. To prevent fraud or other criminal activity if the individual returns an item or requests a refund or an exchange and the merchant uses a fraud prevention service company or system. Information collected by scanning an individual's identification card or driver's license pursuant to this subdivision shall be limited to the individual's name, address, date of birth, and driver's license number or identification card number;
  4. To comply with a requirement imposed on the merchant by state or federal law;
  5. To provide to a check services company regulated by the federal Fair Credit Reporting Act, (15 U.S.C. § 1681 et seq.), that receives information obtained from an individual's identification card or driver's license to administer or enforce a transaction or to prevent fraud or other criminal activity; or
  6. To complete a transaction permitted under the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, (15 U.S.C. § 6801 et seq.), or the federal Fair Credit Reporting Act, (15 U.S.C. § 1681 et seq.).
B. No merchant shall retain any information obtained from a scan of the machine-readable zone of an individual's identification card or driver's license except as permitted in subdivision A 3, 4, 5, or 6.
C. No merchant shall sell or disseminate to a third party any information obtained from a scan of the machine-readable zone of an individual's identification card or driver's license for any marketing, advertising, or promotional purpose. This subsection shall not prohibit a merchant from disseminating to a third party any such information for a purpose described in subdivision A 3, 4, 5, or 6.
D. Any waiver of a provision of this section is contrary to public policy and is void and unenforceable.
This should answer both our questions/statements.
 
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