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Drawn on by Missouri State Patrolman

SavageOne

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
577
Location
SEMO, , USA
+1000

Go about your daily lives....If a situation happens, deal with it! Post it....sue them...and ask for money....but don't even go there, if you are just baiting! Which is "CLEARLY" the case in this matter. Yes...the LEO's don't have to "take the bait"...but they have to justify their existence, so therefore they will do so.

We "justify their actions" by pulling stunts like this.

I hope that most of us are not out there to "prove a point"...Yes, sometimes you have to....but if it is LEGAL already, just go about your business.

Don't walk down a fricking highway if you don't have to!!!.

Promote....Don't Provoke!!


Sorry Zeke, but people's liberties and rights don't depend on how others view their exercise of them. We don't get to give rights only to people who exercise them in a way we agree with. You don't like Bess's activism, fine, but don't try and tell others how they need to act. Well actually, you can try and tell others how to act, since that would be you exercising your freedom of speech. Want people to ask others to curtail that freedom, because they don't like what's being said?

To be perfectly blunt, "baiting" is just as much a legitimate reason to OC, as any you choose. Don't like the how the "public" might perceive it? Tough. Neither you or I or any other person can tell another individual how or why they should exercise their rights(as long as that exercise doesn't hurt or directly stop someone else from exercising their rights). If a person wishes to walk down a fricking highway, let them.

Please explain how we justify the illegal detainment of a citizen, by doing something which, all have said, is perfectly legal. You call it a stunt, I call it exercising of a right.
 

jdholmes

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2011
Messages
488
Location
Henderson, Nevada
If he wants to exercise his right to carry and be an activist, that's fine by me. My problem comes when people like him start whining about what happens as a result. Don't expect pity, compassion or any kind of support from me.

Also if you are going to be an activist and do this kind of thing at least be educated in your responses and represent the community well. This was a complete flop and should, IMO, be embarrassing for others who do choose the activist route.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
If he wants to exercise his right to carry and be an activist, that's fine by me. My problem comes when people like him start whining about what happens as a result. Don't expect pity, compassion or any kind of support from me.

Also if you are going to be an activist and do this kind of thing at least be educated in your responses and represent the community well. This was a complete flop and should, IMO, be embarrassing for others who do choose the activist route.

John Lilburne
William Penn
Edward Bushel
Peter Zenger
James Otis
Countless others who were fined, imprisoned, dispossessed of property, exiled, noses notched, ears cut off, beheaded, or burned.
 

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
Sorry Zeke, but people's liberties and rights don't depend on how others view their exercise of them. We don't get to give rights only to people who exercise them in a way we agree with. You don't like Bess's activism, fine, but don't try and tell others how they need to act. Well actually, you can try and tell others how to act, since that would be you exercising your freedom of speech. Want people to ask others to curtail that freedom, because they don't like what's being said?

To be perfectly blunt, "baiting" is just as much a legitimate reason to OC, as any you choose. Don't like the how the "public" might perceive it? Tough. Neither you or I or any other person can tell another individual how or why they should exercise their rights(as long as that exercise doesn't hurt or directly stop someone else from exercising their rights). If a person wishes to walk down a fricking highway, let them.

Please explain how we justify the illegal detainment of a citizen, by doing something which, all have said, is perfectly legal. You call it a stunt, I call it exercising of a right.

Very well said.

My problem comes when people like him start whining about what happens as a result. Don't expect pity, compassion or any kind of support from me.

If the result of this "baiting" is an illegal harassment or denial of civil rights your lack of pity, compassion or support is disappointing.
I swear some of these post would make a great argument for the anti-gunners.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
In Washington MO, a MWAG (OC) is not a illegal activity despite the cops best efforts to portray OC as such.

The cops are not capable of disassociating the MWAG from the MWAG is or has behaved illegally.

Those cops, and that Trooper, will continue to contribute to a list of rights violations and eventually statutory violations. Bess may be doing a service by documenting Washington police incompetence and misconduct.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
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Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation

rodbender

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
2,519
Location
Navasota, Texas, USA
" It is better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt." I forget who said it.

I think this statement applies to both sides of this particular coin.
 

jdholmes

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2011
Messages
488
Location
Henderson, Nevada

There is a vast difference between these people, the way that they were activists an the way this guy is.

That is why I said, "I have no idea what this has to do with what I said."

I stated essentially that if you are going to be this kind of activist than you better be able to present you and your cause in a better way than this guy.

He made the entire movement look bad with all his yammering on, stammering and overall sounding like a fool.

There are some guys who represent us in this way that I can respect. Why? Because they represent their cause well. They are well spoken and know what they are talking about. This guy is not one of them.
 
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Motofixxer

Regular Member
Joined
May 14, 2010
Messages
965
Location
Somewhere over the Rainbow
"Dad" didn't help much either. If anybody is with me they get strict instructions to stay out of it, and don't answer any questions about me. I know he was just trying to help. But many times they can cause more complications than help.
 

ManInBlack

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
1,551
Location
SW Idaho
"Dad" didn't help much either. If anybody is with me they get strict instructions to stay out of it, and don't answer any questions about me. I know he was just trying to help. But many times they can cause more complications than help.

100% agreed. Again, I ask:

Why was your father involved?

Did the OP call him to the scene? Did he just happen to be driving by? Was he supposed to be filming/recording separately? I have some concerns with that aspect of the story.
 

SavageOne

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
577
Location
SEMO, , USA
There is a vast difference between these people, the way that they were activists an the way this guy is.

That is why I said, "I have no idea what this has to do with what I said."

I stated essentially that if you are going to be this kind of activist than you better be able to present you and your cause in a better way than this guy.

He made the entire movement look bad with all his yammering on, stammering and overall sounding like a fool.

There are some guys who represent us in this way that I can respect. Why? Because they represent their cause well. They are well spoken and know what they are talking about. This guy is not one of them.


It doesn't sound like you want activist, it sounds like you want spokesmodels. I don't recall anywhere in the Bill Of Rights, where it said " you can only exercise these rights, if you can do so in a manner pleasing to others". See, both the polished and the unpolished have the same rights. They both get to exercise them as they see fit. I would say that Bess has had a pretty fair grasp of what his rights are and while you may not feel he handled himself well, others do.

You say you think he overall sounded like a fool, with(your descriptions) his stammering and yammering. Are you aware that to others here, you sound a fool with your bloviation and pontificating(my descriptions)?

One last thing, Bess's rights don't require your respect of how he choses to exercise them, they are his to exercise as he sees fit.
 

William Fisher

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Messages
238
Location
Oxford, Ohio
[Partial Quote from SavageOne Post #26]Do you have the same problem when the police use "bait" cars to nab car thieves? Do you have the same problem with police that "bait" criminals into drug deals?[End Partial Quote]

I was thiking along those lines. Just replace the word BAITING with ENTRAPMENT. There is no Baiting or Entrapment when someone is Breaking the law. Whether they are buying drugs, stealing a car or violating your rights to do that which is legal.
 

jdholmes

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2011
Messages
488
Location
Henderson, Nevada
It doesn't sound like you want activist, it sounds like you want spokesmodels. I don't recall anywhere in the Bill Of Rights, where it said " you can only exercise these rights, if you can do so in a manner pleasing to others". See, both the polished and the unpolished have the same rights. They both get to exercise them as they see fit. I would say that Bess has had a pretty fair grasp of what his rights are and while you may not feel he handled himself well, others do.

You say you think he overall sounded like a fool, with(your descriptions) his stammering and yammering. Are you aware that to others here, you sound a fool with your bloviation and pontificating(my descriptions)?

One last thing, Bess's rights don't require your respect of how he choses to exercise them, they are his to exercise as he sees fit.

I never once said he couldn't exercise his rights...he's more than welcome to do so.

He is trying to represent a movement and not doing so well.

Still his right...never said it wasn't.
 

Motofixxer

Regular Member
Joined
May 14, 2010
Messages
965
Location
Somewhere over the Rainbow
I can add, it's hard to think or speak clearly when they are surrounding you and breathing down your neck. You start to get mental blocks and say dumb sometimes incoherent things especially when your confronting ignorant fools. But it does get easier each time.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
I can add, it's hard to think or speak clearly when they are surrounding you and breathing down your neck. You start to get mental blocks and say dumb sometimes incoherent things especially when your confronting ignorant fools. But it does get easier each time.

Yes it does get easier every time then you get to enjoy the frustration , mental blocks, dumb incoherent things they say when their confrontation and tricks don't work on you. :lol:
 

Logan 5

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
696
Location
Utah
USMCBess, I watched the video, and I have to ask you what your ultimate goal was. You made a number of mistakes. Folks here have already criticized you for those, so now let's look at the mistakes I see and let's see if we can find a way to keep that from happening again.

0:00 - 0:29: an OC walk? Either you walk or you don't. OC walk is nothing more than a charade. This makes it look like a set up.

1:27 & 1:32: Why are you telling him you are legally armed? Ok, in initial contact it may be a good idea. But look at the distance. You're having a hard time understanding him and I bet he can't hear you any better.

5:00: The cop asks you a simple question. I don't see the harm in telling him, but I suppose if you don't want to, you don't have to.

5:15: You asked the cop a legitimate question. But at this point I see that you are TOO eager to talk to them. "Too eager"? Yeah, too eager because you kept talking. Every time they said something you chimed in. Bad idea. The image that may present of you is likely to not be a good one.

5:39: The officer is wrong here. Just because people "all over the place" are calling about a man with a gun, does not justify drawing down on someone. If this goes to court, get copies of the 911 call log. If it is true the calls will be right there. If it is not true, then you have the cop for harassment.

5:46: The police should be expected to uphold the Constitution, that's what is expected of them. The right to keep and bear arms is such a right.

5:53: Ok, mistake here. You asked the guy if he went to the academy. If he has a badge, it's a given. But that doesn't mean that you need to tell him word for word what the Constitution says. As I said earlier, you're too eager to talk. Next time, keep it simple- "Because I can. It's my right and it's not illegal".

6:13: You're going to Plead the Fifth? Geeeez, dude! That is so lame!

6:36: Excuse me, but how old are you? Does your dad have to go everywhere with you? earlier in the video even he was saying that if you wanted to go for a walk you could have went out back (I presume behind his place in the woods....?).

7:02: Bess, you are not cooperating fully. Don't lie about it. You're just gonna decide how much info they extract from you. The best way to solve this? Just keep your mouth shut. Tell them you wish to remain silent until you can consult with your attorney and then keep your mouth shut. If they arrest you for doing that, they are setting themselves up for a lawsuit.

7:07: Again, you don't have to recite the Constitution to him. He knows it.

8:05: Dude, DO NOT INSULT THE TROOPER. And here it sounds an awful lot like you did.

8:28: Do you realize that all this talking you are doing, it isn't showing them anything impressive about you. It's not showing your knowledge or skill. It's showing them not only how uncooperative you are, but that you're arrogant and that can lead to more problems later on.

9:18: Don’t tell them how disappointed you are in them. That’s degrading their performance. I don’t care if they’re bumbling idiots. Show them at least SOME respect.

10:38: The officers are in error here. If you robbed a bank, in the time between when they were called and now they would have been notified of any armed robberies by dispatch. The likelihood of such an event is minuscule. Pre-emptive arrests are not legal. Oh, BTW, at this point you are under arrest. If you are not free to leave and they are investigating you of an alleged crime, it does not appear to be an arrest and not a detention (IANAL, so I could be wrong).

10:58: If the police officers are not violating your rights, why should they care why you are recording the event?

11:20: Bess, come on. Trying to pull up an allegory does you no good. Examples aren’t going to work.

13:00: Perhaps the officer questioning you should reevaluate his questioning. No law saying that you can’t walk.


Now in consideration of what Zekester said.
Bess, you have allegedly been asked NOT to do anything disruptive. Yet this is what you did. Think about that for a few minutes, ok. Sometimes restricting yourself for a few moments or even a few days is wise IF there is a chance that in doing so you can prevent a worse event from happening. Such as interrupting the SB680 talks. Maybe you were on the media and maybe you weren’t. I dunno. But I do know that the other side knows all about this, and your action just made you a pawn in their little game. Did you ever consider that? And what if the ban on OC had gone through? Your action would likely be seen as the straw that broke the camel’s back. What would your reaction be if it was proven that your action WAS just that? An important factor in deciding the deprivation of the Constitutional rights of others?

As for baiting the cops. Bad idea. Bess, you don’t have to bait nobody. Just keep your nose clean and observe. They’ll provide you with footage eventually.

Next time, consider your goal, who you are representing at the time, and how you can better present yourself as a representative and to do so leaving your image with the media in a favorable light. It can be done, it just takes a bit of practice.

The next time the cops pull you aside for OC, KISS. Keep It Short & Simple. They want your name, tell them your name. They want to know what you’re doing OC’ing? KISS- “I dunno. Just out walking and felt like packing.” If they ask why (in the smart-mouthed manner that one officer seems to display), KISS- “‘Cause I can. It’s not illegal and I ain’t done nothing wrong. Can I go now?” At this point unless they have PC or RS, walk. Instead of being a 16 minute event, it’s down to less than a minute. If they say no, it’s now arrest. Even if they say it’s a detention, technically it’s arrest because they suspect YOU, specifically, of a crime. At that point, ****. Don’t say anything. If they cuff you, go limp and lay on the ground. Totally relax. This way your weight is now dead weight and instead of one guy escorting you to the car, it’s gonna be at least two maybe three. THEN they have to get you out. Ohhhh THAT’S fun! You have any idea how cramped the back seat is? Really cramped. Let’s see how they can manage THAT trick! And it’s not resisting, you simply have no obligation to assist them in their criminal activities. And right now you suspect them of kidnapping. Is it, really? Actually, yes. You are the victim and the courts and police have no authority to tell you that you are interpreting the criminal act wrong.

And in closing, learn to ****. You talk to much to the cops. KISS & ****.

I am not a lawyer in real life, nor in play life or even in my sickest nightmares. Nor will I ever be. I speak only from experience, so your mileage may vary.

ETA: I see they have a text filter for some acronyms. Hmmm.
 
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Nutczak

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Messages
2,165
Location
The Northwoods, lakeland area, Wisconsin, USA
after watching the video, I don't know if I would call it baiting, what I saw is someone fully expecting police contact and readily expecting, and welcoming it.
yes, the cops were out of line, as were the OP, and his father.


Do you know what you get when you play stupid games? Stupid Prizes. With that said, I am not trying to imply your actions were stupid or illegal, but I have always found my life was much more enjoyable with the least amount of law enforcement contact as I can have. I always beat the rap, but I rarely beat the ride........
 

ManInBlack

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
1,551
Location
SW Idaho
9:18: Don’t tell them how disappointed you are in them. That’s degrading their performance. I don’t care if they’re bumbling idiots. Show them at least SOME respect.

If my employee's performance sucks, I will degrade it. Some people don't deserve any respect, regardless of whether or not they wear shiny costume jewelry on their chests for pay.
 
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