Conceal Carry on Comercial Aircraft.

[Gunslinger]

@Bowers, at altitude i believe it implodes due to outside pressure. If and when the acft loses interior pressurization, outside air pressure causes the fuselage to crumble at high altitudes. I could be wrong tho.

Pressure decreases with altitude. Things are sucked out of the higher pressure cabin into the lower pressure ambient air. A bullet hole would make noise, that's about all even at 35,000'. You could plug it with a napkin.

 

[Gunslinger]

It is unbelievably unlikely that bullet holes will cause this. However, the commonly accepted fear is explosive decompression. Of course, if decompression occurs explosively, it is entirely possible for the process to go to far, resulting in a reversal of relative pressures, which might cause a reactive implosion.

The explosion would be far larger than the implosion, and any resultant destruction of the aircraft would likely immediately follow the explosion and, at most, be exacerbated by a subsequent implosion.

You can never have lower air pressure inside an aircraft than outside atmospheric. No implosion is possible. The most rapid decompression conceivable would only equalize pressures.

 

[Gunslinger]

I respectfully disagree with you. It IS achievable. Could happen in the next 3 years. All it takes is a growing movement, a lot of talking to our politicians. I don't believe like many in the federal reciprocity. More of the same, giving us our "privileges". We want to get states to slowly go towards constitutional carry. Fed. Reciprocity would actually make it harder to lose the restrictive laws that they have in place at the moment.

I sincerely hope you're correct. But, I'm a pragmatist even more so than a realist. I just don't see somethings happening. If I believed the slave states could achieve ConCarry, that would be the best route, period. Failing that, I'd be thrilled with Federal law forcing reciprocity, even if in a modified form at first.

 

[eye95]

You can never have lower air pressure inside an aircraft than outside atmospheric. No implosion is possible. The most rapid decompression conceivable would only equalize pressures.

As I said, the scenario is highly unlikely. However, explosions do create a relative low pressure which will create a reactive implosion. It is like pushing a child on a swing. The push from up top causes the child to move towards equilibrium, and then past equilibrium, causing the child to move back towards equilibrium.

Explosions typically create (or result from) a high pressure that causes matter to fly towards the lesser pressure. Should this process go to far (as in a child on a swing going past equilibrium), a reversal of the process will be caused, i.e. the movement of matter away from the explosion could cause a low pressure, resulting in some of the matter moving back towards the explosion.

Likely the resultant implosion will be tiny compared to the explosive decompression, especially if the rupture is not massive and the movement of matter takes a good deal of time, but it is entirely possible.

The point I was making was that such a resultant implosion would be occurring in the space once occupied by a now obliterated aircraft. That implosion will be inconsequential.

 

[marshaul]

(2) that carry will allow a rogue passenger to take control of the plane.

lol, ask a pilot what they think about that notion.

Truth be told, we don't need guns on planes for the reason I'm alluding to. Now that the pilots know better, there will never be another 9/11.

Nevertheless, I fully support the right of people to be armed on whatever commercial carriers may elect to allow it.

 

[marshaul]

I sincerely hope you're correct. But, I'm a pragmatist even more so than a realist. I just don't see somethings happening. If I believed the slave states could achieve ConCarry, that would be the best route, period. Failing that, I'd be thrilled with Federal law forcing reciprocity, even if in a modified form at first.

Good analogy. I've been on the fence but leaning towards your view. I think that about finishes making up my mind.

 

[Zed Snardbody]

As much as I may get flamed for it, if carry were allowed on aircraft, I think it should be the one place where permitting should be required.

In the event that you actually should have to draw and fire a weapon a place is the last place you want to do it. So many people packed into a confined space with no where to go.

The typical self defense situation we expect and train for is one on one or one on a small group, and its usually not in the middle of a concert or subway car equivalent.

Its difficult enough to shoot carefully and deliberately in a stressful self defense situation as is.

Say what you will for the TSA, but the Air Marshal firearms training is truly impressive to see it in person. If you take that and strip away the law enforcement training and take the just the certification with say a yearly refresher.

I can also see my own flip side. With more states moving towards constitutional carry, if airline carry were to come to be, my idea could seen as the start of the slope that brings us right back to where we are today.

 

[marshaul]

As much as I may get flamed for it, if carry were allowed on aircraft, I think it should be the one place where permitting should be required.

In the event that you actually should have to draw and fire a weapon a place is the last place you want to do it. So many people packed into a confined space with no where to go.

The typical self defense situation we expect and train for is one on one or one on a small group, and its usually not in the middle of a concert or subway car equivalent.

Its difficult enough to shoot carefully and deliberately in a stressful self defense situation as is.

Say what you will for the TSA, but the Air Marshal firearms training is truly impressive to see it in person. If you take that and strip away the law enforcement training and take the just the certification with say a yearly refresher.

I can also see my own flip side. With more states moving towards constitutional carry, if airline carry were to come to be, my idea could seen as the start of the slope that brings us right back to where we are today.

Yeah, it's for this reason that I suspect most major carriers would continue to employ screening services, and disallow firearms in the cabin. They would probably make exemptions for LEOs of every sort. Liability and all. Doncha know, LEOs are highly trained professionals. All of them.

I still would leave it up to the carriers. Maybe someone could start OCAIR.

 

[eye95]

As much as I may get flamed for it, if carry were allowed on aircraft, I think it should be the one place where permitting should be required...

It doesn't matter how many places, even one, are deemed "appropriate" for licensing of carry. Requiring a government license to carry in places where the public routinely goes establishes the government as the decider. The Constitution clearly establishes the individual as the decider.

If some form of unlicensed carry is not permitted by the government on commercial flights, then the 2A is being violated.

Consider your anti-rights idea, not you, flamed.

 

[Bowers]

@Bowers, at altitude i believe it implodes due to outside pressure. If and when the acft loses interior pressurization, outside air pressure causes the fuselage to crumble at high altitudes. I could be wrong tho.

@ waapl01 unfortunatly you are definatly wrong.There would be no implosion. There would also be no explosion. There would, however, be a rapid decompression, (depending on size of hole) resulting in lots of discomfort for a lot of people, because of course, the pressure inside the aircraft is much higher than the air outside. but not nearly high enough to cause an explosion.

The one time I am aware of that a plane literally exploded due to high interior pressure is when an Air Force KC-135 (military tanker version of the civilian Boeing 707) was accidentally overpressurized on the ground. I'll link the story and pics here

http://www.pirep.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10781&sid=9c3475811c848bc80d22c88143a68447

Also, I'm a commercial pilot, and have actually experianced a decompression in a decompression chamber before. Not exactly fun, but also usually not deadly.

Moral of the story: A bullet will not bring an airplane down. The pilot may, and would be well advised to, descend quickly after the bullet penetrates the hull, but the hole itself will not bring down the plane.